Xenocrat |
Which is why you CANNOT Imbue the Sheath with stuff like Hurl to the Horizon (the Sheath itself is not a thrown weapon, you need the actual weapon to be the Ikon to give it Hurl).
What I think you can do is combine Shadow Sheath with another weapon ikon like Gleaming Blade (for a knife with throw), Titan's Breaker (e.g. hatchet/light hammer), Mortal Harvest (hatchet), or Barrow's Edge (most throwing options except light hammer or other bludgeoning). Put Hurl at the Horizon on those.
1) Choose 1h throwing weapon as your first weapon ikon. (Hurl at the Horizon.)
2) Choose Shadow Sheathe as your second.
3) Load first into Shadow Sheathe.
4) Whether or not Shadow Sheathe has the spark, you can always draw "an exact copy" that has runes "and abilities" of the hidden weapon. The immanence/transcend are abilities of the loaded ikon, so they should transfer to copies drawn from the sheathe if the spark has jumped to the weapon inside the sheathe.
This allows you to constantly shift spark between the Sheath and the loaded weapon, avoiding duplicate runes, extra hands holding two separate weapons, or actions to swap between them. No other set up seems as efficient.
Of course you pay for it with a small damage die, less strength if you prioritize throwing (Shadow Sheathe abilities all work exactly as well for melee, you can actually ignore it except as a backup), and one less utility/defense ikon.
One nice thing is you can spam Mated Birds in Flight with Twin Stars for a nice damage boost every round once you hit level 10.
shroudb |
shroudb wrote:
Which is why you CANNOT Imbue the Sheath with stuff like Hurl to the Horizon (the Sheath itself is not a thrown weapon, you need the actual weapon to be the Ikon to give it Hurl).What I think you can do is combine Shadow Sheath with another weapon ikon like Gleaming Blade (for a knife with throw), Titan's Breaker (e.g. hatchet/light hammer), Mortal Harvest (hatchet), or Barrow's Edge (most throwing options except light hammer or other bludgeoning). Put Hurl at the Horizon on those.
1) Choose 1h throwing weapon as your first weapon ikon. (Hurl at the Horizon.)
2) Choose Shadow Sheathe as your second.
3) Load first into Shadow Sheathe.
4) Whether or not Shadow Sheathe has the spark, you can always draw "an exact copy" that has runes "and abilities" of the hidden weapon. The immanence/transcend are abilities of the loaded ikon, so they should transfer to copies drawn from the sheathe if the spark has jumped to the weapon inside the sheathe.This allows you to constantly shift spark between the Sheath and the loaded weapon, avoiding duplicate runes, extra hands holding two separate weapons, or actions to swap between them. No other set up seems as efficient.
Of course you pay for it with a small damage die, less strength if you prioritize throwing (Shadow Sheathe abilities all work exactly as well for melee, you can actually ignore it except as a backup), and one less utility/defense ikon.
One nice thing is you can spam Mated Birds in Flight with Twin Stars for a nice damage boost every round once you hit level 10.
Yes, I have such a build posted in the thread about possible Exemplar builds , RAW seems fine, although personally I'm not sure that it's intended to be able to combine a weapon ikon with the sheath ikon.
That said, you'll only be able to spam Mated birds if you spend an action every second round Shifting Immanence, since the Feat is tied to the Ikon (and you can't pick the Sheath for said Ikon).
So if you have the feat for your Gleaming Blade, you won't be able to use the transcend when the spark is in the sheath.
Dubious Scholar |
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Mated Birds is supposed to be applicable to Shadow Sheathe, it even calls that out for the transcendence.
Heck, the transcendence is also especially good for Shadow Sheathe because it forces off guard for the extra damage. Really, it's just harder to figure out how to do a thrown weapon build without Sheathe such that you'd need Twin Stars to make that one work, since you basically need a Returning rune on your ikon then.
Xenocrat |
That said, you'll only be able to spam Mated birds if you spend an action every second round Shifting Immanence, since the Feat is tied to the Ikon (and you can't pick the Sheath for said Ikon).
So if you have the feat for your Gleaming Blade, you won't be able to use the transcend when the spark is in the sheath.
The text of the feat indicates they do intend you can pick Shadow Sheathe for use with Mated Birds in Paired Flight. The Usage is iffy, but it does say "(see text)."
You're definitely right about not being able to spam this every round, you'd have to select Mated Birds a second time at 12th, or wait for Cutting Without Blade at 20.
shroudb |
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Mated Birds is supposed to be applicable to Shadow Sheathe, it even calls that out for the transcendence.
Heck, the transcendence is also especially good for Shadow Sheathe because it forces off guard for the extra damage. Really, it's just harder to figure out how to do a thrown weapon build without Sheathe such that you'd need Twin Stars to make that one work, since you basically need a Returning rune on your ikon then.
Actually what it says about the Sheath is:
"his feat can be imbued in either a single ikon with multiple copies, such as one produced by the shadow sheath or with the Twin Stars feat, or two separate ikons"
So if you multiply the Ikon using shadow sheath, not that you imbue the sheath itself.
Squiggit |
I wonder how much of the jank with shadow sheathe is intentional or just running afoul of the flavor of it being tied to a sheathe instead of a literal weapon. The text of Mated Birds seems to imply that you can use whichever weapon is loaded into the sheathe for requirements, but that's
Not strictly a bug per se but it seems weird that Mortal Harvest's immanence both does half the normal immanence damage and of a worse category of damage at the same time.
shroudb |
I wonder how much of the jank with shadow sheathe is intentional or just running afoul of the flavor of it being tied to a sheathe instead of a literal weapon. The text of Mated Birds seems to imply that you can use whichever weapon is loaded into the sheathe for requirements, but that's
Not strictly a bug per se but it seems weird that Mortal Harvest's immanence both does half the normal immanence damage and of a worse category of damage at the same time.
Whichever "Ikon" is loaded in the sheath is what it says though.
That said, more clarity is always good.
Xenocrat |
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Not strictly a bug per se but it seems weird that Mortal Harvest's immanence both does half the normal immanence damage and of a worse category of damage at the same time.
Mortal Harvest has a very limited niche when facing multiple enemies with a weakness that you have santification or an energized spark that can hit it. Bounce around the first two rounds tagging everyone's weakness with persistent damage that's likely to tick at least twice, then focus on one or two guys until they go down.
If you're just repeatedly striking one guy and have a couple of instances of energized spark you can stack three different persistent ticks and it's not that much different than the normal 2 per die early in the fight, just slightly delayed in when it hits them. Later in the fight it's better if they're tough.
Mostly the benefit seems to be the action saver and MAP avoider on transcend when you deliver a finishing blow and need to move to the next target. You pay for that with slightly substandard normal damage boost.
PossibleCabbage |
It does seem like we could add a line to shadow sheathe to make it easier to combine with other feats relevant to weapon ikons. Since there's a bit of a kludge in that it's a weapon ikon but is not, itself, a weapon.
"You may take feats that are imbued in a weapon ikon, and these will apply to any weapon stored in your sheathe that fit the usage requirement of the feat. For example Twin Stars would apply to a throwing knife or javelin stored in your sheathe, but not a harpoon as it is a 2-handed weapon".
Seems like a reasonable way to play the ability.
Ravingdork |
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The create demiplane, freedom, and imprisonment rituals already exist in previous publications as non-mythic rituals and thus should not have the mythic trait.
SuperBidi |
There's an issue with Traveling Workshop: it can either be used as a 10-minute activity or as a Sustained spell. The 10-minute activity is clearly meant for downtime but nothing in the description limits it to downtime. So nothing prevents the Animist from using Traveling Workshop as a 10-minute activity in the morning and benefit from it during the entire day, making the Sustained use completely useless.
I also think the Sustained version is not really usable. In many situations where you need Thievery or Crafting (especially Crafting) you'll need to spend your undivided attention to the task, preventing you from Sustaining the spell at the same time. In my opinion, the spell should automatically be Sustained as long as you spend actions Crafting/Thievering. And I think it should be possible to Sustain it for 10 minutes as currently you can't easily cover such a duration: you'd first need to use the 10-minute version, at least doubling the time spent on the activity (and as such preventing any use when you are at least a bit constrained by time).
There's also a small issue with Dancing Invocation: It doesn't say when you Sustain. For Vessel Spells like Garden of Healing, it can have a massive impact between Sustaining at any moment during the movement, only at the end of the movement or only at the beginning of the movement. I think it should be at the end of the movement only, but I can clearly see players trying to choose the moment or GMs considering that the Leap, Step, or Tumble Through is a trigger to the Sustain and as such force it at the beginning of the movement.
shroudb |
There's an issue with Traveling Workshop: it can either be used as a 10-minute activity or as a Sustained spell. The 10-minute activity is clearly meant for downtime but nothing in the description limits it to downtime. So nothing prevents the Animist from using Traveling Workshop as a 10-minute activity in the morning and benefit from it during the entire day, making the Sustained use completely useless.
I also think the Sustained version is not really usable. In many situations where you need Thievery or Crafting (especially Crafting) you'll need to spend your undivided attention to the task, preventing you from Sustaining the spell at the same time. In my opinion, the spell should automatically be Sustained as long as you spend actions Crafting/Thievering. And I think it should be possible to Sustain it for 10 minutes as currently you can't easily cover such a duration: you'd first need to use the 10-minute version, at least doubling the time spent on the activity (and as such preventing any use when you are at least a bit constrained by time).
There's also a small issue with Dancing Invocation: It doesn't say when you Sustain. For Vessel Spells like Garden of Healing, it can have a massive impact between Sustaining at any moment during the movement, only at the end of the movement or only at the beginning of the movement. I think it should be at the end of the movement only, but I can clearly see players trying to choose the moment or GMs considering that the Leap, Step, or Tumble Through is a trigger to the Sustain and as such force it at the beginning of the movement.
Travelling workshop:
You can cast this spell as an exploration or downtime activity with a casting time of 10 minutes; when you do, its duration increases to 8 hours (enough to complete 1 day of work), and you also gain an alchemist’s lab and functioning forge.
You can only cast the 10min version as a downtime activity.
SuperBidi |
You can only cast the 10min version as a downtime activity.
You can cast this spell as an exploration or downtime activity with a casting time of 10 minutes; when you do, its duration increases to 8 hours (enough to complete 1 day of work), and you also gain an alchemist’s lab and functioning forge.
Nope.
shroudb |
shroudb wrote:You can only cast the 10min version as a downtime activity.Quote:You can cast this spell as an exploration or downtime activity with a casting time of 10 minutes; when you do, its duration increases to 8 hours (enough to complete 1 day of work), and you also gain an alchemist’s lab and functioning forge.Nope.
Edit: my bad, you can indeed.
But still not seeing an issue?
It even solves your problem with how you can't simultaneously sustain and do other crafting/thievery exploration activities.
SuperBidi |
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But still not seeing an issue?
It even solves your problem with how you can't simultaneously sustain and do other crafting/thievery exploration activities.
I have the feeling it's not the intention behind it, that the 10 minute activity should not be used at the beginning of the day to get permanent proficiency and completely ignore the Sustained one.
Ravingdork |
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I disagree, I think the above rituals work better as Mythic options. The fact that they've been published before means nothing, options can get changed quite majorly when reprinted in the remaster.
I've created a discussion thread, if you--or anyone else--would like to further discuss the matter; it would probably be off-topic and potentially disruptive to do so here.
shroudb |
When you transform into a form granted by a spell, you gain all the effects of the form you chose from a version of the spell heightened to darkened forest form’s rank. Each time you Sustain this Spell, you can choose to change to a different shape from those available via any of the associated spells.
Example form:
You gain specific abilities based on the animal you choose:
-AC = 16 + your level. Ignore your armor's check penalty and Speed reduction.
-5 temporary Hit Points.
-Low-light vision and imprecise scent 30 feet.
-One or more unarmed melee attacks specific to the battle form you choose, which are the only attacks you can Strike with. You're trained with them. Your attack modifier is +9, and your damage bonus is +1. These attacks are Strength based (for the purpose of the enfeebled condition, for example). If your unarmed attack bonus is higher, you can use it instead.
Athletics modifier of +9, unless your own is higher.
I think that this by RAW would give you the Temp HP of the form every time you sustain and switch to a new one, which I'm not sure if it's intended...