Animist bookkeeping

[shroudb]

Is it just me, or does animist have an insane amount of bookkeeping?

Like, you have your normal bookkeeping for your Prepared slots.

BUT

You get to change your Apparitions daily. Meaning changing also your spontaneous spells.

BUT

That also changes your skills (Lores) while doing so. Maybe you are going to the Mountains, so you'd rather have that Master Mountain Lore!

BUT

Now you also have too change your wandering feats as well.

All those while also juggling which is your Primary Apparition to also change your Focus spells while you refocus (or even faster with feats).

And that's not counting feats that remove Apparitions in the middle of the day!

---

Basically, in morning prep you not only have to do prepared casting, you also have to choose your Lores, your spontaneous spells, your wandering feats, and which focus spells you'll have (which you can change, depending on feats, mid combat). And (again, depending on feats) lose some of those choices mid day.

[ElementalofCuteness]

Oh no it is insane amount of bookkeeping but it's an advance class if I would have to guess. It has a lot of utility but you need to be good at knowing your options. Which is why I'd suggest unless you absolutely ned too don't change your apparitions or anything as the such to keep your bookkeeping lower. Then again most people tend to build around themes and gimmicks so they probably won't change out often anyways.

[Errenor]

shroudb wrote:

Is it just me, or does animist have an insane amount of bookkeeping?

I haven't seen the final version, but I've mentioned that playtest animist was very uncomfortable for paper char sheets, it's mostly electronic sheets only. The amount of data you need to put in lists is about the size of 10+ level spellcaster's. But on level 1. And I guess not that much has changed from playtest?

[HammerJack]

In the playtest, all of the juggling and bookkeeping was the selling point if the class to me. It would be pretty disappointing if it wasn't there.

[Finoan]

HammerJack wrote:

In the playtest, all of the juggling and bookkeeping was the selling point if the class to me. It would be pretty disappointing if it wasn't there.

Agreed. That was what I liked about Medium in PF1 - nearly rebuilding the character each day.

[John R.]

Finoan wrote:

HammerJack wrote:

In the playtest, all of the juggling and bookkeeping was the selling point if the class to me. It would be pretty disappointing if it wasn't there.

Agreed. That was what I liked about Medium in PF1 - nearly rebuilding the character each day.

Same. As a person who has too many characters built to realistically play, the Animist is a boon.

[Calliope5431]

shroudb wrote:

Is it just me, or does animist have an insane amount of bookkeeping?

Like, you have your normal bookkeeping for your Prepared slots.

BUT

You get to change your Apparitions daily. Meaning changing also your spontaneous spells.

BUT

That also changes your skills (Lores) while doing so. Maybe you are going to the Mountains, so you'd rather have that Master Mountain Lore!

BUT

Now you also have too change your wandering feats as well.

All those while also juggling which is your Primary Apparition to also change your Focus spells while you refocus (or even faster with feats).

And that's not counting feats that remove Apparitions in the middle of the day!

---

Basically, in morning prep you not only have to do prepared casting, you also have to choose your Lores, your spontaneous spells, your wandering feats, and which focus spells you'll have (which you can change, depending on feats, mid combat). And (again, depending on feats) lose some of those choices mid day.

Medium in PF 1e was probably worse, and occultist also sucked. To say nothing of other systems. But yeah it's pretty messy compared to most other classes.

[shroudb]

Calliope5431 wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Is it just me, or does animist have an insane amount of bookkeeping?

Like, you have your normal bookkeeping for your Prepared slots.

BUT

You get to change your Apparitions daily. Meaning changing also your spontaneous spells.

BUT

That also changes your skills (Lores) while doing so. Maybe you are going to the Mountains, so you'd rather have that Master Mountain Lore!

BUT

Now you also have too change your wandering feats as well.

All those while also juggling which is your Primary Apparition to also change your Focus spells while you refocus (or even faster with feats).

And that's not counting feats that remove Apparitions in the middle of the day!

---

Basically, in morning prep you not only have to do prepared casting, you also have to choose your Lores, your spontaneous spells, your wandering feats, and which focus spells you'll have (which you can change, depending on feats, mid combat). And (again, depending on feats) lose some of those choices mid day.

Medium in PF 1e was probably worse, and occultist also sucked. To say nothing of other systems. But yeah it's pretty messy compared to most other classes.

To clarify, I don't necessarily mean that the daily customisation is a bad thing.

I like it the same way I like Medium is PF1. I was just taken aback a bit since usually things in pf2 are a bit slicker.

[Finoan]

Also to clarify, the class does definitely have a lot of bookkeeping needed.

That is kinda the tradeoff for the intense daily customization.

What I remember doing for the playtest was creating pages/cards for the apparition stat changes and spell lists. Then I could just grab the appropriate apparition cards for the day instead of trying to erase/rewrite 78% of my character sheet.

[HammerJack]

Extra cards and sheets was what I did for medium in 1E, and what I'd expect to do for Animist, but I haven't gotten my hands on the final version yet. Did a bit of that in other systems to help with organization, too (like for Champions characters built around a multiple form schtick). It isn't too hard once you've played the character for a few sessions.

[Unicore]

Yeah, as the wizard player who has spells in spreadsheets and has multiple spell load out lists for various situations, I am thankful that we are finally deep enough into the game cycle to get the stuff with a little extra added complexity without it meaning that you need to wrestle with one of the complex classes to be a useful contributing member to the party.

It is probably surprising to some, but I very much prefer the sorcerer to be the easiest offensive caster class to pick up and play well-ish, and for folks to write off prepared casters that are not just casting the same spells every day, than for players to feel like they have to play these prepared caster classes to be powerful but have them struggle to play them at the table.

[Calliope5431]

shroudb wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Is it just me, or does animist have an insane amount of bookkeeping?

Like, you have your normal bookkeeping for your Prepared slots.

BUT

You get to change your Apparitions daily. Meaning changing also your spontaneous spells.

BUT

That also changes your skills (Lores) while doing so. Maybe you are going to the Mountains, so you'd rather have that Master Mountain Lore!

BUT

Now you also have too change your wandering feats as well.

All those while also juggling which is your Primary Apparition to also change your Focus spells while you refocus (or even faster with feats).

And that's not counting feats that remove Apparitions in the middle of the day!

---

Basically, in morning prep you not only have to do prepared casting, you also have to choose your Lores, your spontaneous spells, your wandering feats, and which focus spells you'll have (which you can change, depending on feats, mid combat). And (again, depending on feats) lose some of those choices mid day.

Medium in PF 1e was probably worse, and occultist also sucked. To say nothing of other systems. But yeah it's pretty messy compared to most other classes.

To clarify, I don't necessarily mean that the daily customisation is a bad thing.

I like it the same way I like Medium is PF1. I was just taken aback a bit since usually things in pf2 are a bit slicker.

Yeah speaking as someone who appreciates point-and-shoot destruction (yay kineticist) I'm somewhat less enthralled. But it's definitely less complex than lots of other things. I mean heck even fighter can be really complicated with the ability to change out entire feat chains on the fly.

[HammerJack]

I think it's also VERY important to have classes that are more point-and-shoot. But I think we have enough of them for their to be room for some "this class is for the weirdo who enjoys all of the extra fiddling and some people may bounce off of it" entries to the lineup.

[Chocolate Milkshake]

It'd be a good opportunity for Paizo to announce a Deck of Apparitions after the book goes live.