Out of all the pre-remaster content, I feel that Secret of Magic would benefit the most from a remaster version, it the first theme rulebook to be publish for Pf2e and also the one that Contain a class which need a remaster (Magus)
Well, I'm not going to say that it won't happen.
I am curious about your reasoning though. It is a bit vague.
What parts of Secrets of Magic lore would benefit the most from Remaster?
And why does Magus need Remaster?
But ultimately the "I don't think the <insert Legacy class> does not need a remaster" some folks like to say or imply is not holding up as well, as a lot of remastered classes did not need one, but got remaster upgrades anyway, and the upgrades were greatly appreciated, vastly better than the errata patches. The argument would have had more ground if most of the Remastered versions of classes had no changes between Legacy and Remaster beyond simple terminology changes. Even the Gunslinger, which I've seen folks say "does not need a remaster" or "is the least needing of a remaster" is already confirmed to get one. The more I see the argument the more it begins to feel more like, "I'm not personally invested in the class, therefore it does not need an update." Amusingly enough, if folks said that the Gunslinger is one of the classes that needs a remaster the least, then if it's getting a remaster, that means every class that is more deserving than the Gunslinger is open to it.
There's a lot of classes that don't need a remaster. Pretty well all of them could benefit from it*. Like, no one is screaming for Thaumaturge updates because the class works well and is fun. But if they did one, some of the weaker implements could get a buff and a few things could get cleaned up.
Plus, these classes never got real errata the way core classes did. So Gunslinger and Inventor never really got updates and can now finally get some things improved.
It was always a silly argument to say "X doesn't need a remaster", agreed. Because yeah, most classes didn't. But if you're updating the book anyway, why not tune up the classes at the same time? That's the most player forward content in most of these books.
*Unless they pull an Oracle.
This and you cannot use a Magus in an ORC 3rd party product.
I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The ORC does not afford Paizo any special privileges, and they printed new content for stuff printed under the OGL in an ORC Book. I also recall the devs confirming that pathfinder infinite content can still reference OGL books. There's probably some guidance in the ORC FAQ.
This and you cannot use a Magus in an ORC 3rd party product.I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The ORC does not afford Paizo any special privileges, and they printed new content for stuff printed under the OGL in an ORC Book. I also recall the devs confirming that pathfinder infinite content can still reference OGL books. There's probably some guidance in the ORC FAQ.
What a TPP can't do is use ORC items and OGL items in the same product. Paizo owns their own writing so they don't have to remaster anything until they want to use it. Once it is published in an ORC product it is incorporated into the ORC license.
It's the TPPs that have to deal with it. I guess you might be able to publish under both ORC and OGL at the same time? but that might violate the ORC as that would cause the ORC items to be incorporated into the OGL?
But ultimately the "I don't think the <insert Legacy class> does not need a remaster" some folks like to say or imply is not holding up as well, as a lot of remastered classes did not need one, but got remaster upgrades anyway, and the upgrades were greatly appreciated, vastly better than the errata patches.
I don't think it is a silly argument. Most of these classes - even the ones that did get a Remaster treatment - didn't actually need it. Some (IMO Witch, Swashbuckler, Investigator, Alchemist) did need it. Others (IMO Ranger and Fighter) didn't get much and really didn't need what they got. One (Oracle, especially Bones Oracle) have as many people upset by the Remaster version as are happy with it.
So I guess it depends on what you are meaning by saying that a class 'needs' Remastered.
Of the classes left, I feel that:
* Gunslinger only needs a couple tweaks: They have some rules strangeness with their Way Reload actions as they interact with the Subordinate Rules rule. And more importantly, Way of the Spellshot doesn't need to be a class archetype.
* Inventor might need Unstable looked at. And I hear something about proficiency progression, but I may be wrong on that. I don't hear much about Inventor in general.
* Psychic needs the wording changed for how they get and recharge focus points. One of the big benefits of the class was being able to recharge two focus points from level 1.
* Summoner, Thaumaturge, and Magus I can't think of many things that I find wrong with them. Or have heard bad things about from a lot of people.
This and you cannot use a Magus in an ORC 3rd party product.I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The ORC does not afford Paizo any special privileges, and they printed new content for stuff printed under the OGL in an ORC Book. I also recall the devs confirming that pathfinder infinite content can still reference OGL books. There's probably some guidance in the ORC FAQ.
What I am finding for OGL content included in Pathfinder Infinite products.
As best as I can figure out, you are still able to use and reference OGL content from Paizo in Pathfinder Infinite products.
Also, I think a lot of people forget that Rage of Elements, and therefore Kineticist, are also published under OGL.
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I think it's more likely that the various critical content from Secrets of Magic gets parceled out into other books and remastered that way. Like the upcoming Magic Schools book having the remastered Runelord Archetype.
Like the reason that Guns & Gears is getting remastered is that it's sold out, but Secrets of Magic isn't.
It's more likely we get a new book with all four of the classes that could use some remastering (Magus, Summoner, Psychic, Thaumaturge) than we remaster either Secrets of Magic or Dark Archive.
I think it's more likely that the various critical content from Secrets of Magic gets parceled out into other books and remastered that way. Like the upcoming Magic Schools book having the remastered Runelord Archetype.
Like the reason that Guns & Gears is getting remastered is that it's sold out, but Secrets of Magic isn't.
It's more likely we get a new book with all four of the classes that could use some remastering (Magus, Summoner, Psychic, Thaumaturge) than we remaster either Secrets of Magic or Dark Archive.
Guns and Gear was also super easy to remaster because there is next to no magic or divinity in it. Secrets of Magic wouldn't be as simple, so yeah I think parceling is more likely.
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But ultimately the "I don't think the <insert Legacy class> does not need a remaster" some folks like to say or imply is not holding up as well, as a lot of remastered classes did not need one, but got remaster upgrades anyway, and the upgrades were greatly appreciated, vastly better than the errata patches.I don't think it is a silly argument. Most of these classes - even the ones that did get a Remaster treatment - didn't actually need it. Some (IMO Witch, Swashbuckler, Investigator, Alchemist) did need it. Others (IMO Ranger and Fighter) didn't get much and really didn't need what they got. One (Oracle, especially Bones Oracle) have as many people upset by the Remaster version as are happy with it.
So I guess it depends on what you are meaning by saying that a class 'needs' Remastered.
Of the classes left, I feel that:
* Gunslinger only needs a couple tweaks: They have some rules strangeness with their Way Reload actions as they interact with the Subordinate Rules rule. And more importantly, Way of the Spellshot doesn't need to be a class archetype.
* Inventor might need Unstable looked at. And I hear something about proficiency progression, but I may be wrong on that. I don't hear much about Inventor in general.
* Psychic needs the wording changed for how they get and recharge focus points. One of the big benefits of the class was being able to recharge two focus points from level 1.
* Summoner, Thaumaturge, and Magus I can't think of many things that I find wrong with them. Or have heard bad things about from a lot of people.
I disagree on the ranger not needing changes when I'm surprised it didn't. Flurry and precision aren't bad per se but to me they feel like the poor man's fighter and rogue subclasses and I also think it is widely accepted that rangers in general lack some "oomph" too, but in particular I'm really surprised outwit wasn't reworked since its easily the worst of the bunch and widely known to be the closest thing to a real trap option in the system.
Gunslingers are also likely in the rework table because the new operative from SF2e is likely going to take the gunslinger's lunch and do everything they do and much better (even in playtest form the operative is one of the strongest martials in both systems, arguably the strongest martial). I easily see reloads being changed into something like the operative's Mobile Reload feature which allows them to reload while doing a Step or Stride, meaning it stacks with other actions that include Steps or Strides, though in the case of the gunslinger it would an action based on its subclass like Demoralize and Create a Diversion in the case of pistolero or Take Cover and Hide in the case of sniper. Also its very likely vanguard could receive some changes since its a popularly bad gunslinger subclass too, kinda like outwit for rangers.
Inventor is easily the worst martial in the game right now. Its a smart barbarian that's weaker damage-wise than even a fury instinct barb and that only selling point are actions that, as a whole, can be used once per encounter in most cases due to how unstable works. Innovations in general feel really meh, the feat list is also very meh with the exception of Gadget Specialist which should be a baseline feature of the class, and in general it fails to represent what being an inventor should be. I also think that its very likely they don't want the inventor to overlap with the mechanic from SF2e (which is already announced to be getting a playtest early next year), so much like the operative and gunslinger I'm pretty sure they want to have these classes without having one of them being the direct upgrade over the other.
I think that psychic having less slots than other casters in the post-kineticist age is a little silly and doesn't make sense. The kineticist does the "blaster caster" approach much better, so unless you want to play psychic for flavor reasons, there's no much reason to play a, for example, oscillating wave psychic when a fire/water kineticist exists. I would either buff their cantrips and/or damage even more or just give them regular spellcasting progression since they are clearly on the weaker side.
Summoner and thaumaurge are actually fine, more than fine even. I believe they are among the best designed classes in the system and if I had to do anything with them would probably add a few new feats here and there but that's it. Magus, however, while being a really strong class I feel its poor action economy isn't a feature but rather something that makes the class clunky to play as. Arcane cascade is a horrible feature which only purpose is to allow you to have other class features that aren't spellstrike, because unless you are a starlit span magus which for whatever reason can pretty much ignore arcane cascade for the most part all the other hybrid studies need it if you want their benefits, since you are certainly not going to use arcane cascade for its damage boost (as if a +1 to damage would have an impact for the nova damage class). I have played various maguses (magi?) in the low and high levels and arcane cascade is always a problem. Most encounters don't last more than 3-4 rounds and due to how arcane cascade works you can't really start benefiting from it until the second or even third round of combat, so in most cases for when you actually hve arcane cascade set the encounter is pretty much set. I would honestly remove it or make it so that when you don't have spellstrike charged you gain its bonus to damage made with weapon strikes (I would increase the damage a little so people would actually want to keep spellstrike uncharged in some situations).
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I think the likelihood of Secrets of Magic getting reworked highly depends on what its stock looks like. I feel if its close to needing a reprinting then we will see it then but if it looks like that won't be happening anytime soon then...
I could also see a new book that comes out, like people said that maybe remasters the current remaining four classes, puts in new lore about magic, maybe adds a bunch of spells and/orc some exciting class archetypes for magical themed classes. Or even more of a long shot 1 or 2 new magical classes
I'll be honest I'm not sure what the theming for that would be the. The new book they announced with the schools sounds it like would have been perfect to do something like this.
Some potential ideas.
- A book that explores magic in an as of yet unexplored(or under-explored) region of the world, such as Arcadia. Much like how Treasure Guides narrative surrounded characters from Tian Xia before we got Tian Xia.
- Perhaps a book that weaves a narrative that connects or references various high powered magical lore characters (rune lords, old Mage Jatembe, baba yaga, Jao jin, etc)
-Maybe a book on Nethys or some massive church of Nethys, perhaps studying the effects of the Godsrain on magic in the world. (To be honest, I think this or the first one would have tons of potential. With maybe this idea edging out because Paizo loves its narrative synergy(with understandable reasons)
edit: Fey eidolons do also interact with the old schools of magic, although this is alleviated a bit by the fact that the illusion tag still exists and that is one of the schools it interacts with.
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One remaster book packing psychic, summoner, magus and thaumaturge would be pretty swanky. On the other hand, if Paizo wanted to make two books and give people strong reasons to buy both, it makes sense to keep them separate.
I'd say Psychic could do with a bit more oomph, the balance between cantrips and regular spells shifted a bit in favor of regular spells in the remaster. Making "the cantrip class" slide back a bit in comparison. I'd also like to see them get more feats that work well in a PC party - right now they have a lot of stuff that blasts in an area around them, hunting fellow PCs as well. Let's face it, a 6HP no armor class shouldn't be trying to stand in the middle of enemies alone.
Thaumaturge is broadly okay, but there is room for polish. The language for implement's empowerment could be more straightforward. Look at how much people strain to use them with bows (1 PLUS weapons, not 1-handed) and shields. Maybe there should just be a shield implement?
Magus and the remaster spell list also want to have a talk. Sure, ignition and gouging claws are lovely. But the width of choice has narrowed a bit with fewer spell-attack spells in the remaster. Maybe Expansive Spellstrike needs to just be a built-in class feature? And maybe they need some better battle plan for enemies with Reactive Strike? Because bosses seem to have RS or such abilities a bit more than average, and it sucks if you can't use your main class abilities in the most important fights.
Another thing to fine-tune for the magus in the remaster is damage type on arcane cascade. The remaster made more of a distinction between damage types (fire, slashing) and traits (holy, cold iron). So magi now have a bit less options there for interesting cascades. And the errata to handle the removal of spell schools also removed opportunities to fine-tune damage types on cascade.
The cascade mechanic could use rework anyway, it's often felt that it's not quite being as cool and impactful as it was supposed to be. Maybe activating it should be a free action instead, so that you could start a combat with a stride -> spellstrike -> cascade ?
Fey Eidlodon needs to be entirely rewritten. It's completely tied into spell schools.
* Summoner, Thaumaturge, and Magus I can't think of many things that I find wrong with them. Or have heard bad things about from a lot of people.
Technically Illusion is still a tag on remastered spells, so it's only half broken. You still have access to a lot of illusion spells, but enchantment spells don't exist anymore. There isn't a good way to fix that;
* Either you substitute Enchantment tag for Mental and the Fey summoner gets twice as many spell options as previously intended.
* Or you make a bespoke spell list of enchantment-themed spells like the wizard's School of Mentalism which is much smaller than previously accessible and more focused.
Either way people are going to complain.
The Captivator archetype wasn't from SoM, but easily could fit into a remastered version and needs a rewrite for the same schools of magic.