It's been awhile since I've been active on these threads. As it is wont to do, life has gotten in the way of gaming. The story arc I've been running for the past year and more has been going at a snails pace, and with life throwing extra kidney punches my way, I'd hit a point of burnout. All at the relatively tender age of 36. True grognards, feel free to shake your heads in derision of my youthful angst. . . Enough therapizing! Sorry about that.
Anyway, we're putting my story on hiatus (hopefully not soft death), while we pick up a new story and give me time to recharge my batteries. I haven't made a character in about three years. I have a decent backstory/character concept that I've wanted to play for years, but I'm struggling to translate it mechanically. I'm not connecting to the classes I better know, and am overwhelmed by all of the splat I've yet to experience/explore. I'm hoping to (mangle a metaphor) drink from the well of communal creativity, and thereby relight my creative forge.
Concept: (not breaking new ground, but a combo of ideas I hope to make my own)
--Son of a seduced or captured priestess of a goodly god who's portfolio includes Fire
--Other half is likely devil, but possibly Efreet. Evil fire type of some sort.
--Nebulous prophecy or portents about being a pivotal piece in the conflict between the alignments
--Kidnapped and taken as infant/toddler, raised in Hell/plane of fire as prince
--Educated, trained, spoiled, and groomed to be Scion of the house of the General of all Fire Devils (theoretical power tier just below princes and dukes of the 9 hells)
--Centuries pass on material plane, only formative years in hell
--Captured/rescued (or possibly celestialy lawfully negotiated for) by members of mother's holy order
--Handful of years being re-educated, trained, and nurtured by goodly holy types
Open to all suggestions, but here's where I'm leaning thus far.
Lawful Neutral, Tiefling/Ifrit/????
Unsure what class
I want to use supernatural fire (the key link between both parents, and manifestation of his divine/infernal/cosmic power)
I also want to be skilled/effective with a sword, referencing his martial upbringing in hell.
Obvious choice would seem to be Magus, but I'm struggling to mentally connect to the class. Similar looks at Inquisitor, Warpriest, or Paladin. I also tend to like full 9th level casters, but I don't know how to make one good with a sword. Kineticist also maybe.
Other fleshing out traits, skills, or abilities: Manifestations of supernatural speed; monster knowledge, hunting, and killing skills (Slayer?); smithing, forging, glass or pottery crafting; some charisma and seduction; stag-like physical attributes (prey becomes the hunter vibe, this is mostly cosmetic)
I'm also open to and eager for roleplay prompts. I believe in play what you want to play. I want to play this character, but it's going to force me to stretch acting muscles. I need to figure out how to play a dispossessed prince from an evil court, who's had just enough exposure to goodness to be open to new ideas and party dynamics. Basically, I could use some help finding the line of characteristically difficult, without being a total a**hat, or being utterly unbelievable in a generally more heroic party.
Can't help you with the 3rd party stuff, as I don't touch it (and know little about it).
If you want a 9th level caster and are not opposed to the Druid class, consider the Nature Fang archetype. You'll be able to pick up Ranger Combat Styles starting at 4th level with your Slayer Talents. You'll be fairly good with weapons and have Studied Target to pick up the slack from the 3/4 BAB. You'll need to get something like Elemental Spell metamagic, or an item substitute is you want a lot of flame based spells.
If Druid isn't your thing, the Myrmidarch archetype for the Magus makes you better at fighting while limiting your spellcasting a bit.
If you want something like the Warpriest, Inquisitor, or Paladin but don't know if you want to settle for any of them, you could try the "Build-a-bear" ... eh ... Zealot archetype for the Vigilante. This might fit fairly well in with your backstory but I'm not sure how much enjoyment you'll get with the whole secret identity thing. It's usually hit or miss with different people.
idk... as PC races are sentient the race is not so tied to thematic/stylistic backstory as most dramatic events and character flaws can happen to anybody. Race is more a factor for efficient builds. Mechanics in a Game.
Personally aspects of PFS are great and I'll refrain from reviewing 3rd party stuff.
For me specialist wizards, multiclass specialist wizards, or where I try to flesh out a character is what I do. I'm rather comfortable with the magic system and wizards have some power to spare.
As a GM for PF1 you need some expertise in the area or casters will abuse your good will or lack of knowledge. Besides, playing a loophole specialist is fun.
Wizard diviner, BO:amulet, sub in Sch Fcs(evok) for scribe scroll. Trt:Mag Lineage or Mag Knack, W Spellhunter. Feats Point-blank, Precise, then your choice, hvy crssbow, and you're good till 5th level. You can choose samsaran for mythic past lives, tiefling, aasimar, human, ratfolk, vanaran, etc. Choose a background and write your outline and make some specific choices.
I've posted some rather mechanically complete characters with just a simplistic background (if any). A whole list o bards... compared razmir build to plain varisian pilgrim/wiz. Then there's my mage-killer build.
Can't help you with the 3rd party stuff, as I don't touch it (and know little about it).
If you want a 9th level caster and are not opposed to the Druid class, consider the Nature Fang archetype. You'll be able to pick up Ranger Combat Styles starting at 4th level with your Slayer Talents. You'll be fairly good with weapons and have Studied Target to pick up the slack from the 3/4 BAB. You'll need to get something like Elemental Spell metamagic, or an item substitute is you want a lot of flame based spells.
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll need to study Vigilante a bit more. What makes Zealot a "Build-a-Bear"?
The Nature's Fang might work quite well, but again, I'll have to dig into it. If I can take the Fire Domain as my Nature Bond, that might be enough.
idk... as PC races are sentient the race is not so tied to thematic/stylistic backstory as most dramatic events and character flaws can happen to anybody. Race is more a factor for efficient builds. Mechanics in a Game.
Personally aspects of PFS are great and I'll refrain from reviewing 3rd party stuff.
For me specialist wizards, multiclass specialist wizards, or where I try to flesh out a character is what I do. I'm rather comfortable with the magic system and wizards have some power to spare.
As a GM for PF1 you need some expertise in the area or casters will abuse your good will or lack of knowledge. Besides, playing a loophole specialist is fun.
Wizard diviner, BO:amulet, sub in Sch Fcs(evok) for scribe scroll. Trt:Mag Lineage or Mag Knack, W Spellhunter. Feats Point-blank, Precise, then your choice, hvy crssbow, and you're good till 5th level. You can choose samsaran for mythic past lives, tiefling, aasimar, human, ratfolk, vanaran, etc. Choose a background and write your outline and make some specific choices.
I've posted some rather mechanically complete characters with just a simplistic background (if any). A whole list o bards... compared razmir build to plain varisian pilgrim/wiz. Then there's my mage-killer build.
Thanks for the post. Outside of some naturally close or mid range fire spells, I'm leaning more towards melee and close Area fire attacks, as opposed to a ranged type. Is there a way to make a wizard a decent threat with a sword, or is the investment just not worth it?
{character mechanics & design}{some class & build recc's}
Thanks for the post. Outside of some naturally close or mid range fire spells, I'm leaning more towards melee and close Area fire attacks, as opposed to a ranged type. Is there a way to make a wizard a decent threat with a sword, or is the investment just not worth it?
I'm here to help (mostly).
ahhhh... so you suffer from conceptual problems about "what is a wizard". They DO have their negatives. The most rounded IMO is a bard but then not so good at specific things.
Use or Proficiency.
Yes, Wizards can use a greatsword, bastard sword, nerfed spiked chain, or tonfa - just not proficient (-4 to hit !). PF1 is super stingy with weapon proficiencies forcing multiclassing or spell use unless you really just want to focus on just one weapon so it only costs a Feat or you backdoor it through race or adopted human trait. I say use a cestus so you ARE wielding a weapon during Adventure Time. If you have to fight defensively use (2) tonfa, sure you'll still only hit with a "20" but that's not the point as you got +2 and +6 to AC from acrobatics. Bstw Wpn Prfc:E2 is the lame spell for classes without weapon proficiencies that do not want to dip and are willing to pay spell slots.
BAB
Wizards have a crap BAB. So it's not that they suck at first but that they suck at 10th where everybody is 2-5 higher to hit and it just gets worse. The fact they target touch AC (like gunslingers) makes up for most of that BUT it's a spell, not a sharp pointy thing you stick into fleshies.
Honestly there's no direct fix. The Mage-killer is okay but mostly defense and his targets generally have a crappy BAB too.
Methods to compensate are spell use (ofcourse) True Strike:D1 which you trade a spell slot and your round for +20 insight on your next atk, *meh*. diviner's fortune is a lower bonus but affects many rolls and lasts a whole round for a stutterring attack sequence every other round. Otherwise play to your strengths and focus on touch spells, range metamagic, spectral hand, long arm, etc.
Avoiding Being Hit
LoL, wizards are very good at this even without armor & high tanky ACs. LIke most dodger if a foe gets ahold of them, not good. Wands and Vanish, Liberating Command, Grease, Blink, etc are all helpful. Magic Jar reigns supreme in Wizard Combat as they use someone else's moves! (Polymorphs aren't worth it). Then even if you kill their beasty form, you still didn't kill them.
so it's about compromises & cleverness. No character can do everything well.
If you want a 9/9 caster then there aren't a lot of options:
Druid w/Nature's Fang
Cleric w/Hinterlander -- this is an archery build, but very strong
Sorcerer w/Dragon Disciple
Wizard w/Eldritch Knight -- you gain spell levels but not class features so Sorcerer or Arcanist are less compatible
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll need to study Vigilante a bit more. What makes Zealot a "Build-a-Bear"?
You basically get to pick up your choice of some of the classic features of the divine casting classes with your (limited) Zealot Talents: channel energy and smite, or decide if you want more of the signature inquisitor abilities, like discern lies, stalwart, etc. The only real draw to playing an inquisitor over a Zealot is the Bane ability (or full domain acquisition), and to avoid playing with the secret identity.
Quote:
The Nature's Fang might work quite well, but again, I'll have to dig into it. If I can take the Fire Domain as my Nature Bond, that might be enough.
You absolutely can do that, though consider the Plane of Fire under the Druid Domains as it may fit better your backstory.
Once you settle on a race/class, I can help flesh out the build a bit. Depending on HOW you want to go about fighting.
Eldritch Knight might be your PrC choice as a way to pump BAB. The 'all weapon proficiency' requirement is more the issue as if forces a dip into Ftr, Pal, Brb &SavageTech, Rgr, Magus, Gunslngr, Samurai, Cavalier, Slayer &BountyHntr &VelvetBld, Bloodrager, Swashbuckler, Skald, Warpriest. RAW Pal needs LG align. Rage/Panache/Grit/etc powers need levels or stacking levels but the Savage Tech archetype is interesting. Ranger & Warpriest grant access to short clerical spell list. Samurai and Slayer have some interesting archetypes. Magus is interesting.
Fighter specifically stacks with Eldritch Knight which is a standout.
Magical Knack trait is an option and makes Wiz & Ftr 2 or Sor & Pal 2 workable.
For your BObj you need Wiz7(amulet spell cunning), then dip into {martial} 1 or 2, then go into Eldritch Knight 10, which leaves 1-2 levels.
Alternatively Wiz 11 for 2 Wiz Feats (Research Opp) & BObj(amulet spell mastery), then dip into {martial} 1, then go into Eldritch Knight 8.
again, the alternative is a dip into a divine class to pick up your desired weapon(s) and only lose 1-2 arcane levels but gain the divine spell list then progress with your wizard abilities & lower BAB.
I'm leaning Tiefling for race, as it fits the character best. However, Ifrit could work, and may offer more tempting fire powers. I'm a sucker for racial powers and feats.
In combat, I want to wield a sword. Depending on circumstances I would either ignite the sword and/or cast other fire magics with my other hand. (Magus seems obvious here or any gish class, I just need help relating to them).
It's more in-game development, but I also want to develop some antlers for a gore attack. Not worried if this is particularly effective. This starts as just flavor text of a Tiefling or ifrit's horns. Eventually, I want to use this as an expression of his hunter(not the class) aspect. I plan to put sheaths of different special materials over the tines to cover a variety of Damage reduction bypasses (i.e. silver, gold, adamantine, crystal, obsidian, compressed salt, what have you).
I don't care if I'm the "best" in any one category, but with cleverness, tactics, and skill, I want to be able to hunt and kill the prey with either sword, fire, or antlers. The right tool for the right job.
When I can't or shouldn't go for the kill, or otherwise out of combat I want to contribute hunting/tracking and creature knowledge skills. Crafting weapons, glass, or pottery (anything where fire is a factor). Socially I plan to have him take a back seat, usually after screwing up, unless his tactical, nobility, or intimidation skills can actually be useful.
Thanks Azothath for the Character Design input. Procedural models work well for me.
I'm still open to specific suggestions or anecdotes about how to play a slowly reforming jerk. He's no longer evil, but he DID NOT have a good upbringing. He wasn't abused, but raised spoiled, entitled, and regimented amongst devil nobility. Lawfulness and the philosophical flexibility of fire were the avenues to redemption his "rescuers" were working with.
The Hellknight Signifer might be of interest. I put one together awhile ago based on Slayer and Wizard, but it might work better based on cleric and something.
Never mind. I was reading more about what is wanted. Hellknight Signifer is probably not it.
The Hellknight Signifer might be of interest. I put one together awhile ago based on Slayer and Wizard, but it might work better based on cleric and something.
Never mind. I was reading more about what is wanted. Hellknight Signifer is probably not it.
I appreciate you taking the time. I'm always interested to learn about new things. Is Hellknight Signifier your own creation, or an already existing class or archetype?
I suppose I should clarify moving forward, my GM this time is allowing all 3rd party content (with approval) with the exception of 3pp base classes. Races, spells, archetypes, gear, feats, etc. are all in play.
The Hellknight Signifer might be of interest. I put one together awhile ago based on Slayer and Wizard, but it might work better based on cleric and something.
Never mind. I was reading more about what is wanted. Hellknight Signifer is probably not it.
I appreciate you taking the time. I'm always interested to learn about new things. Is Hellknight Signifier your own creation, or an already existing class or archetype?
I suppose I should clarify moving forward, my GM this time is allowing all 3rd party content (with approval) with the exception of 3pp base classes. Races, spells, archetypes, gear, feats, etc. are all in play.
I'm pretty sure Waterhammer meant a Hell Knight Signifier.
Mr. Waterhammer, I think you may have sold yourself short. I need to keep reading, but I'm really vibing with what I've seen of the Hell Knights so far. I'll need to see if I can mesh enough of the mechanics with my vision, but the flavor seems on point. If I don't start this way, it might be something to build towards.
Thank you Northern Spotted Owl for the clarifications. And your earlier list if I hadn't already said so.
I put together a 4th level build for a Tiefling that focuses on their fire theme:
Flames:
Important choices: War Blessings to dip into the flaming weapons and ability to increase speed.
Druid spells: Produce Flame and Pale Flame for long ranged fire attacks. Flame Blade because ... fire sword. Also took Flame Blade Dervish to ignore some fire resistance (especially against undead)
Sneak attack helps with our damage output and allows up to pick up Accomplishe Sneak Attacker later.
Ranger Combat Style is totally up for choice. I chose Menacing but didn't really allocate any skill points towards Intimidation. It can be whatever.
Tiefling Flame Warrior L4
Male oni-spawn tiefling druid (nature fang) 4
LN Medium outsider (native)
Init 4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +2 shield)
hp 32 (4d8+8)
Fort 6, Ref 3, Will 7
Resist fire 10
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 scimitar +9 (1d6+6 S/18+ plus 1d6 sneak attack) or
. . flame blade +8 (1d8+3 F plus 1d6 sneak attack) or
. . produce flame +8 touch (1d6+5 F plus 1d6 sneak attack)
Druid (Nature Fang) Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +7)
. . 2nd—elemental speech[D,APG], flame blade (2), pale flame
. . 1st—burning disarm (2, DC 14), obscuring mist (creates smoke)[D], produce flame (2)
. . 0 (at will)—create water (at will), know direction (at will), spark (at will)[APG] (DC 13), stabilize (at will)
. . D Domain spell; Domain Plane of fire
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Statistics
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Str 19, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB 8; CMD 19
Feats Flame Blade Dervish, Gory Finish[UC], War Blessing[ACG] (Fire & Wildfire)
Traits prolong magic, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +3, Bluff +0, Climb +5, Fly +7, Handle Animal +3, Heal +7, Knowledge (nature) +6, Perception +11, Sense Motive +4, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +0, Survival +11, Swim +5; Racial Modifiers +4 Fly
Languages Common, Druidic, Infernal
Other Gear +1 lamellar (horn) armor[UC], +1 ironwood buckler, +1 scimitar, 1,280 gp
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Special Abilities
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Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Druid (Nature Fang) Domain (Plane of Fire) Energy Resistance, Fire (10) Fire Hardened (6/day) (Ex) You ignore fire damage from the fire-dominant planar trait. Bestow on willing creature with touch (1 hour).
Flame Blade Dervish With flame blade, +10 speed, +4 acrobatics, add Cha mod to dam and ignore some fire resist.
Gory Finish Make an Intimidate check if you reduce an opponent to negative hit points
Sneak Attack +1d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Studied Target +1 (move action, 1 at a time) (Ex) Study foe as a Move action, gain +1 to att/dam & some skills vs. them.
Trackless Step (Ex) You do not leave a trail as you move through natural surroundings
Gory Finish feat req's: dazzling display, weapon focus, & thus only with *that* weapon. Your PC doesn't get the Slayer talent until 4th level which is when Ranger Combat Style becomes an option and the impact to feat req's. For simplicity just take Wpn Fcs(scimitar) at 3rd (if not earlier).
War Blessing feat req's: Mystery or domain class feature. Okay, Dom:Fire rather than AnmlCmpn. War Blessing Fire is no-brainer, the other is up to GM approval. I think Wildfire is fine.
For me, the ability scores don't add up from a 20pt buy [19(16),14,12,10,16(14),6(8)] with race [+2,0,0,0,+2,-2] then Abil@4:+1 Str but you could be doing something different.
Ranger Combat Style allows you to ignore prerequisites (I did state the combat styles were optional, you may need to select a weapon focus to USE it, but you still HAVE it).
Druids get the Nature Bond class feature, which allows for the selection of a domain.
For me, the ability scores don't add up from a 20pt buy [19(17),14,10,10(9),16(14),6(8)] with race [+2,0,0,0,+2,-2] then Abil@4:+1 Int but you could be doing something different.
It helps if you make a new post after you've already been replied to. Especially since you lose the chance to edit your posts after an hour.
The stats I posted included activated effects, such as the Alter Self spell-like ability available to the Oni-spawn Tielfing, granting a +2 size modifier to strength. As well as Studied Target being active. Herolab does decent job of printing out a summary but doesn't list everything.
As for the recommendation to take Weapon Focus @ 3rd level, that is up to anyone who wants to make use of the build and alter it as they see fit. I simply saw more use of Flame Blade Dervish than Weapon Focus, and can wait until 5th level to take Weapon Focus.
It helps if you make a new post after you've already been replied to. Especially since you lose the chance to edit your posts after an hour.
The stats I posted included activated effects, such as the Alter Self spell-like ability available to the Oni-spawn Tielfing, granting a +2 size modifier to strength. As well as Studied Target being active.
...
I had {edit} up for some time in my post as you responded quickly and you have 1 hour to edit. You chose to ignore it and not to edit your post. It takes a bit of time to research exactly how you did ability scores and normally spells and such are not included in the ability score statements or there is a note stating why they are higher.
I'm just vetting your build. It is not legal as posted. herolab makes mistakes... since this is a bit non-central I'd double check it as PFS players griped to them about the sanctioned classes & options so that got fixed
Its not a matter of 'choosing to ignore it'. I don't spend long periods of time refreshing my screen waiting for a reply or a potential edit. I reply and then perhaps check back later.
Legality is nebulous wen we don't know the full extent of the setting, nor the potential patron or deities present in the game the OP is playing in. The only thing on loose footing is the Wildfire blessing. Feel free to 'vet' the build or ask questions if you like. I'll stick to strict RAW if and when I post a build in the Rules Section.
Quote:
herolab makes mistakes... since this is a bit non-central I'd double check it as PFS griped to them about the sanctioned classes & options so that got fixed
Herolab does indeed flag the Wildfire blessing as an invalid choice. But this is assuming normal, core Golarion campaign settings. I do not make that assumption.
Legality is nebulous wen we don't know the full extent of the setting, nor the potential patron or deities present in the game the OP is playing in. The only thing on loose footing is the Wildfire blessing. Feel free to 'vet' the build or ask questions if you like. I'll stick to strict RAW if and when I post a build in the Rules Section.
Quote:
herolab makes mistakes... since this is a bit non-central I'd double check it as PFS griped to them about the sanctioned classes & options so that got fixed
Herolab does indeed flag the Wildfire blessing as an invalid choice.
Azothath earlier wrote:
I'm just vetting your build. It is not legal as posted.
If I didn't stick to RAW in my comments - they wouldn't have much value. Whatever flies in your Home Game is your game and I can't know or comment about that until after the fact. I still wouldn't comment for the most part as it is Home Game territory... Game away!
Gentlemen. Thank you both for your input. Deathless One's build is quite useful. I might tweak a few things to get closer to the feel I want, but it showed me options I wasn't even aware of.
Azothath, I truly appreciate you taking a Rules Lawyer (in the best possible sense) eye to the build, as I try to play as fair and legit as possible. That said, I've never done society play, so we don't have to worry about that here. We also allow 3rd party in our group, and I'm our biggest rules lawyer; so if it slips past me, usually the rest of the group doesn't care :p
Again, truly, thank you both for your contributions.
I put together a 4th level build for a Tiefling that focuses on their fire theme:
** spoiler omitted **...
Again. Thanks for this build. Where are you finding the "Wildfire" blessing? I looked on both AoN and the D20pfsrd and didn't see it. I'm not good at navigating AoN though, so I likely missed a link or searched wrong.
(Edit) Nevermind. Just found the links for Focus and Disaster Blessings. Didn't realize it was a separate list.
Spirit guide Oracle (background sounds like a cha based caster)
Spirit guide could be RPed as an "instructor" if you are going for the lore spirit, which can give you several fire spells, our you use fire as your mystery.
So, on a first draft, a spirit guide flame oracle, curse could be legalistic to represent his infernal upbringen.
To represent his training, did you consider a single dip in swashbuckler? You are now a skilled dueller, fuel your panache pool with you main casting stat. You eventually get level 9 spells (I think level 17), and have martial weapons from the swash dip.
You can blast (flame mystery) defend yourself in melee (swash dip), are dextrous and charismatic and are a natural leader.
Spirit guide Oracle (background sounds like a cha based caster)
Spirit guide could be RPed as an "instructor" if you are going for the lore spirit, which can give you several fire spells, our you use fire as your mystery.
So, on a first draft, a spirit guide flame oracle, curse could be legalistic to represent his infernal upbringen.
To represent his training, did you consider a single dip in swashbuckler? You are now a skilled dueller, fuel your panache pool with you main casting stat. You eventually get level 9 spells (I think level 17), and have martial weapons from the swash dip.
You can blast (flame mystery) defend yourself in melee (swash dip), are dextrous and charismatic and are a natural leader.
Thanks for the ideas. I've never multiclassed, so I'm a bit nervous to try it, but this build may need it. Oracle is on my short list. Unfortunately, my list isn't yet quite short enough :p
Again. Thanks for this build. Where are you finding the "Wildfire" blessing? I looked on both AoN and the D20pfsrd and didn't see it. I'm not good at navigating AoN though, so I likely missed a link or searched wrong.
(Edit) Nevermind. Just found the links for Focus and Disaster Blessings. Didn't realize it was a separate list.
You are quite welcome. Apologies for the unneeded back and forth in the thread.
If it helps at all (I have issues navigating the Archives of Nethys site sometimes too), I usually just resort to a search engine and use the search string "aon 1e wildfire blessing" or similar for other things, and that gets me to where I need to be most of the time.
If you want any tips or tricks for multiclassing (or the variant kind in the unchained book), I can offer some advice. Can't really help out with the 3rd party stuff (as I mentioned before) as it falls outside my area of experience.
I put together another stat block, this time of an Ifirit of level 6 using the Inquisitor class and two compatible archetypes. Dexterity based and fire oriented as well. I used War Blessings (Fire and Wildfire) again, because they are just so thematic. Be aware, as before, Wildfire is an iffy pick.
Immolator/Infiltrator:
Abilities of note:
Judgements can increase your to hit by +2 (among other things) and even LOWER the fire resistance of enemies.
Divine Favor can net you an additional +2 to hit and damage.
Your teamwork feats give you additional +2 to hit when flanking and lets you deal an additional +1d6 damage.
You have several options to add fire damage to your attacks, just be aware they do not stack. However, the durations vary, so if one runs out of uses, another can be used.
You have an effective +2 to your level for Fire domain spells/abilities.
Your initiative is nuts. That is not a typo.
Strength is listed at 13 for two reasons, carry weight and for taking the power attack feat later. You are free to redistribute as you want should you decide you don't want that feat. It's a good feat that opens up intimidation abuse through demoralizing enemies.
You can take 10 on intimidation checks, even in battle (fiery glare trait)
You can take Flameblade as a 3rd level spell if you worship Saranae, so Flame Blade Dervish is also an option here, and may stack with your ability to lower fire resistance with your judgment.
Ifirit Immolator
Male ifrit inquisitor (immolator, infiltrator) of Sarenrae 6
N Medium outsider (native)
Init 11; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 19 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 natural, +2 shield)
hp 47 (6d8+12)
Fort 7, Ref 8, Will 9; +6 vs. abilities that detect lies or force the truth
Resist fire 10
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 scimitar +9 (1d6+5 P & S/18+)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +6)
. . 1/day—efreeti magic[ARG][ARG]
Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . 6/day—fire bolt (1d6+4 fire)
Inquisitor Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . At will—detect alignment
Inquisitor (Immolator, Infiltrator) Spells Known (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . 2nd (4/day)—blistering invective[UC] (DC 15), instrument of agony[UC], lesser restoration, shared training
. . 1st (5/day)—cure light wounds, divine favor, litany of weakness[UC], wrath[APG]
. . 0 (at will)—acid splash (at will), brand (at will)[APG] (DC 13), create water (at will), detect magic (at will), disrupt undead (at will), stabilize (at will)
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10
Base Atk +4; CMB 5; CMD 20
Feats Dervish Dance[ISWG], Outflank[APG], Precise Strike[APG], War Blessing[ACG] (Fire and Wildfire), Weapon Finesse
Traits fiery glare, reckless
Skills Acrobatics +13, Bluff +7, Climb +5, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +4, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +11, Perform (dance) +2, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +5, Stealth +10, Survival +11, Swim +5
Languages Common, Ignan
Other Gear +1 chain shirt, +1 buckler, +1 scimitar, amulet of natural armor +1, cloak of quick reflexes +1/+2[MA], headband of inspired wisdom +2, ring of protection +1, 1,780 gp
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Special Abilities
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Burnt Offering (flaming, 6 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon flaming ability. Slain opponents burn to ash.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Efreeti Magic (1/day) (Sp) Cast enlarge person or reduce person 1/day.
Energy Resistance, Fire (10) Fire Bolt 1d6+4 fire (6/day) (Sp) As a standard action, ranged touch attack deals fire dam to foe in 30 ft.
Forbidden Lore (Ex) May cast spells of alignment opposed to own or deity alignment.
Inquisitor (Immolator, Infiltrator) Domain (Fire) Judgment (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Judgment of Immolation -10 (Su) Reduce target's fire resistance by listed amount.
Misdirection (Lawful Neutral) (Sp) When prepare spells choose an alignment to count as for magical detection.
Necessary Lies +6 (Su) Gain bonus to saves vs. abilities detecting lies or forcing truth.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Wildfire Heart +4 racial bonus on initiative
Thanks again. I consider myself pretty decent at helping others build in my group. But something about this particular character has had me floundering. I really like the Immolator. So much of the background in my head had gone Tiefling, but the easy fire flavor of an Ifrit combined with the monster knowledge of the Inquisitor is very tempting. Alas, that's part of my problem; fire guy with a sword is so broad, there's almost too many options.
I think part of what I need to do is peruse a few of the other classes so I can figure out which ones can't offer me what I want. For instance, I haven't ruled out Ranger or Slayer yet because of the BAB progression, sword access, and hunting skills. But, can either of those classes actually offer me enough (or any) Fire powers. Same with Ninja, and possibly Swashbuckler. Of course, as I say this, I'm still stuck in my traditional single class build headspace.
Anyway. Thanks again, Deathless One. And to everyone else who has offered help on this thread :)
The Flamewarden Ranger is able to get you a flaming weapon and some [fire] spells off the Druid list but what you lose doesn't fit with what you want from the rest of the character concept. Unfortunately, it's likely for only option for the Ranger.
Slayer doesn't appear to have any real fire based abilities built in and you'd be relying on items or racial choices to fill the gaps.
Outside of the options I've given you, I can't think of anything that fits the concept better unless you start looking into multiclassing and prestige classing.
Hope that was useful. I'm going to toy with that Immolator build some more because NOW I want to play it.
Dag nabbit! I looked at Flame Warden. It's actually a contender, for the progression, if not where it starts. What was I loosing that you thought was more apt to the concept, Deathless One?
The evasion stings, but isn't essential. I don't care about the camouflage. The Master Hunter capstone loss is the only big one. I do hate to loose that potential, but I've never actually gotten to play to Lvl. 20.
Dag nabbit! I looked at Flame Warden. It's actually a contender, for the progression, if not where it starts. What was I loosing that you thought was more apt to the concept, Deathless One?
I had thought that spellcasting was a bit higher on the priority list, so being reduced to 4th level casting and having to put quite a few ability points into wisdom would detract from your combat capabilities without an equal trade off (spell dc).
Also, losing out on Hunter's Bond is a big price to pay for getting a flaming weapon.
Ah. Mechanically, yes. To clarify, I usually gravitate towards spellcasters with my characters. I tend to think in elemental or other supernatural themes. Casters make that easier. That said, for this character, as long as I can consistently play with fire, and have at least some creative and/or non-combat applications for it, spells of higher level aren't required (just nice.)
I imagine I'm going to land in at least 6th level spell territory, but that's not a hard line.
As to the hunter's bond. I'm actively trying to avoid critters, summons, leadership, or (too much) shape shifting. The things that can bog down play too easily, or that I've done too often before. So, for this character, the mechanical ding was acceptable.
I'm gonna go and try and prune down my options some more :)
Ah. Mechanically, yes. To clarify, I usually gravitate towards spellcasters with my characters. I tend to think in elemental or other supernatural themes. Casters make that easier. That said, for this character, as long as I can consistently play with fire, and have at least some creative and/or non-combat applications for it, spells of higher level aren't required (just nice.)
Good to know. I might be able to add a few other options if there is less emphasis on spellcasting. Kineticist and similar might become viable.
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As to the hunter's bond. I'm actively trying to avoid critters, summons, leadership, or (too much) shape shifting. The things that can bog down play too easily, or that I've done too often before. So, for this character, the mechanical ding was acceptable.
A lot of people miss out on the option to share HALF your favored enemy bonus with your allies (Companion Bond), the OTHER option for Hunter's Bond instead of an animal companion. Half-elves have the best alternate favored class bonus for this very specific class feature.
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I'm gonna go and try and prune down my options some more :)
Ya know, it's funny. I was just pointing out the companion bond to one of my players, and then I overlooked it myself :p
Got distracted by pretty burning swords. That's priority one, but tactics are important too. That helps to reflect the whole "raised as a General/War Prince's son" bit.
I've gotten spoiled. I'm having to actively restrain myself from strangling my husband for not letting us Gestalt this time.
Spousal abuse aside (:P), Kineticist is another strong contender on my short(ish) list. I remember being confused/underwhelmed by weapon options the last time I looked at the class. I know that's not the class's original design intent, but the archetypes lost me a bit. More to dig into.
If you are considering kineticist the energize weapon infusion may be of interest to you. You mentioned wanting to be a sword wielder and energize weapon would allow you to add your infused kinetic blast to your weapon attack. As a composite blast with blue flame composite blast you can deal up to 8d6 per hit by level cap if I remember correctly and then add the empower metamagic on top.
A few other suggestions. If you decide to go with Ifrit as your race that opens up access to the Elemental Strike feat that can add up to 5 points of fire damage to your attacks. A couple of classes to consider. Elementalist Shifter can add up to 6d6 elemental damage to all melee attacks as a swift action by level cap. Forester Hunter with the Planar Focus feat can add up to 5d6 fire damage to all melee attacks by level cap.
Thanks for the extra info. Haven't had a chance to dig into Kineticist or Hunter yet. Shifter is a class right up my alley conceptually, but I've determined it won't work well for this particular character. It's a bit too zeroed in on specific concepts if I go to archetypes, and the main chassis doesn't work for this guy. If I could mash Fiendflesh, Elementalist, and one other one I've forgotten, it might work (with some trimming of parts I don't want).
If there’s a class you like thematically but it doesn’t have much in the way of fire based abilities there are ways to “fake it” as it were. Variant Multiclassing is a good way to do it. VMC sorcerer with elemental or fiendish bloodlines or VMC cleric with the fire domain can work. If your base class is charisma based the Eldritch Heritage Feat line with elemental or fiendish bloodlines is another way as well. If your race is Ifrit you can use Elemental Strike as I mentioned earlier and I believe Ifrit also has some Racial feats that add fire damage to your weapon attacks with metal weapons.
VMC Wizard with the fire, magma, or smoke arcane school are also options. On the flip side if there is a class you like mechanically but doesn’t quite fit the theme Variant Multiclassing can help there too. For instance if you were to take Elementalist Shifter you could take VMC cavalier, Paladin, inquisitor or Bard perhaps. An item you may want to consider is Demonic Smith’s gloves to add the flaming property to your weapon attacks. Another class suggestion is Warlock Vigilante. Their mystic bolts ability is another way to chuck some fire around (they also benefit from Demonic Smith’s Gloves as well).
VMC Wizard with the fire, magma, or smoke arcane school are also options. On the flip side if there is a class you like mechanically but doesn’t quite fit the theme Variant Multiclassing can help there too. For instance if you were to take Elementalist Shifter you could take VMC cavalier, Paladin, inquisitor or Bard perhaps. An item you may want to consider is Demonic Smith’s gloves to add the flaming property to your weapon attacks. Another class suggestion is Warlock Vigilante. Their mystic bolts ability is another way to chuck some fire around (they also benefit from Demonic Smith’s Gloves as well).
Thank you. That's all quite helpful. The only books I have physical access too are the Player's Handbook and the Advanced Class Guide. Where would I find rules for Variant Multiclassing?
Cheers for the link! I'm still reading, but I do have a question. With VMC, it's an all or nothing proposition, correct? If I don't care for the feature gained at Level 7 for instance, I can't choose not to take it, and just take a feat instead?
Based on what I'm seeing, I'm intrigued by the Cavalier as a VMC option, but I don't know if the others would work, or at least come online soon enough. None of the casting VMCs give actual spells, and the cantrips don't kick in until Lvl. 11. I imagine the intent was usually to keep casters with casters for this mechanic.
Are there other VMC options for the hybrid, occult, and alternative classes? Kineticist and Shifter for examples.
