Looking through the classes, this is what I am seeing for initial skill proficiencies:
Envoy: +1(CHA skill) +1(Leadership style) +6 = 8
Mystic: +1(Connection) +3 = 4
Operative: +1(Specialization) +3 = 4
Solarian: +1(Athletics) +1(Stellar Arrangement) +3 = 5
Soldier: +1(Intimidation) +3 = 4
Witchwarper: +1(Paradox) +3 = 4
Which for the most part follows the PF2 pattern of most classes getting 'background +4 +INT' skills trained, with skill-heavy classes getting more.
In this case, Solarian is slightly higher than typical.
One thing that I notice in this is that Starfinder2e currently has two more skills than PF2 does. So that same B+4+INT has to stretch just a bit farther. Probably not by enough that it will be a problem.
I could see moving a couple of PF2 standard skills to a Lore subskill though. Survival and Performance being my choices for the move. I could also see Society's actions and use being absorbed into the Computers skill. Most of the knowledge about society in the Pact Worlds and the Drift and surrounding areas is found on the Infosphere, not memorized.
And to be clear, the point of the playtest being the way that it is with the skills may be to see how much of a problem it is for the same number of initial skill proficiency and level-up skill boosts to have to cover a couple more skills.
So it isn't something to get too attached to at this point. Just run with the characters like this and see how it goes.
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with there being two new skills added, i really wish Operative, the former skill Monkey class, got one or two trained more. They were ebtter than rogues for skills before, and are now subpar to the solarion, which just feels wrong on every level. Justice for Operatives please.
The cognitive dissonance is that the SF2 Operative has a very different design and role than the SF1 Operative.
SF1 Operative was easily best in game skill expert. As well as being a top damage dealer with light weapons.
SF2 has kept the damage dealing, but dropped the skill expert role. That is a design decision that is mentioned in the playtest sidebar for the class.
So yes, it is a new class. IMO it is more comparable to Gunslinger with some nods to Rogue's Sneak Attack and Ranger's Hunt Prey.
If you are wanting to convert a beloved SF1 Operative into Starfinder2e, it would probably convert better as a Rogue PF2 import than as an Operative.
Actually I'd argue. Witchwarper gets 1+3+Int(+4)=8 Because they use Intelligence and most likely will have +4 Int Modifier where all other classes are not encouraged to build into Intelligences, in fact I feel building Intelligence might actually "harm most other class in the Playtest except for Mystic & Operative.
Envoy - Despite being KAS Charisma you don't actually need it for any core class feature to function outside Get'Em and some social skills which you can ignore (You get a lot of skills to make up for it) , for a +2 Damage. If you focus on KAS then you'd want DEX as your secondary and then your others will be Con and Wis for the defensive side
Mystic - Wis as KAS makes it so you can focus on Dex and Con while still giving you a +1 to put into Int or Cha, depending on what you are looking for, nothing gained from Cha over Int much.
Operative - Dex as KAS, that's amazing and frees up more stats. When your KAS in a Defensive and offensive stat it makes building easier since you can choose to put the 4th Free +1 boost into a stat like INT for a plus 1.
Solarian - KAS Str...This is a problem because it is your main offensive stat and with you being close Melee with Medium armor you most likely will go either Str/Dex or Str/Con meaning your other 4 Free +1 Boosts will go into Dex for more AC and Wis for Will saves and Initiative boost.
Soldier - KAS Con, good stat but you will most likely want Dex as secondary to get more Attack bonus and then STR to help wear heavy armor more easily but that be putting all your eggs into physical stats like Solarian meanign you need to choose between STR to make heavy armro lighter, or drop STR take the armor hit and grab some mental stats. honestly easier to pull off then the Solarian.
I also find it very strange that the number of skills classes get is very similar compared to Pathfinder, while the number of skills was increased by a flat two and at least one of those skills can be seen as mandatory (Computers) to interact with many of the subsystems of the game.
I'm not even sure how to solve that strange situation, given that those two skills feel absolutely fitting for the Starfinder setting. Giving the classes more skill proficiencies seems unwarranted as well, since the developers want PF2E and SF2E to be compatible out of the box.
Envoy wants Cha for skill uses in combat. With a couple of feats it can mark an asset them perpetually demoralize it to stack with get em, and there were several strong combat performance skill feats I noticed on my first read through. They’ll work great with that one leadership style that seems the strongest anyway for acts of leadership option to do another directive.
You’ve also got 1-3 per day fortune effects on charisma skills, so go for that crit success in combat when you need it.
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One thing that I notice in this is that Starfinder2e currently has two more skills than PF2 does. So that same B+4+INT has to stretch just a bit farther. Probably not by enough that it will be a problem.
SF1e had 20 skills PF2e has 17, SF2e has 19, and not all SF1e skills made it into SF2e.
SF1e had Engineering, Life Science, and Physical Science, which have been dropped in SF2e. Replacing them with PF2e skills takes 2 skills to do the same thing. So I wonder if that will stretch number of skills per class balance even more.
Engineering (crafting + thievery)
Life Science and Physical Science (crafting + lore)
Engineering is a very frequently used skill in SF1e The classes that are most impacted by this are not in the playtest so hard to tell how they will be affected by this.
The biggest problem I have with the SF2e skills is using PF2 names for some skills. I get why for compatibility, but crafting and lore feels like taking the Science (and Engineering) out of Science Fantasy.
I wish Starfinder had its own skills. NASA doesn't craft spaceships. Thieving skills from a PF2e tech-level society would have a hard time trying to open a sliding door that uses an electrical control panel and might even be hazardous. To me the fun of having PF2e characters end up in SF2e is having them have to learn to adapt to the future. That could be done by retraining skills as a downtime activity.
A simple solution might be to call crafting "DIY crafting" that at least sounds more modern, and might suggest having more skill than just using a 3d printer to make something.
In one SFS scenario, we had to give a speech to a group of cadets telling about a time when we used a downtime skill on a mission, I gave a speech about all the times I used the Profession (maintenance worker) skill to help repair starships while waving my wrench around overhead. Giving a speech about maintenance lore just seems weird.
Honestly it is pretty funny to think that you couldn't imagine Lore as Science skills, I mean what is the actually difference here but depending on what you want, you can easily do Lore (Life Science) it is an example in the book for a reason and there is a skill feat in Pathfinder 2e called Additional Lore fore a reason, Which can give you an auto-scaling lore skill.
Engineering can either be Crafting or Lore (Engineering) once again using Lore like that might require some GM rulings but you can 100% use your Lore Skills to Earn Income.
The biggest problem I have in no class is by default trained in Computers which I hope Technomancer & Mechanic are trained in both Crafting and/or Computers because that is just seems weird if they weren't.
However I guess that is why Untrained improvisation is a great Skill Feat now, not that the classes like Fighter or Soldier didn't already get the most out of it but 2 more skills on the skills those Martials get which is 1 forced skill + 3 + Int + BG Skill + BG Lore = 5 Skills total when there is 19, which just added MORE value to Untrained Improvisation equally if you can get to level 7.
I think the best solution here would be to increase the amount of trained skills each class has by 1 to "compensate" for the two new skills.
Nice, simple solution.
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Honestly it is pretty funny to think that you couldn't imagine Lore as Science skills,
I can imagine it just fine, lore just sounds weird in the context of high tech Science. Can you imagine using Life Science and Physical Science in PF2e? I can but wouldn't want to.
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Honestly it is pretty funny to think that you couldn't imagine Lore as Science skills,I can imagine it just fine, lore just sounds weird in the context of high tech Science. Can you imagine using Life Science and Physical Science in PF2e? I can but wouldn't want to.
I mean . . . 'biology' lore? 'Physics' Lore? Like I said, there already is an Engineering lore.
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While I stand by compatibility being a good thing and I'm glad the core rules will hold up both games, I do wish we could have the skills converted over to being in line with Starfinder's setting even if it could cause minor hiccups for the GM to adjudicate when converting between games.
Things like Crafting and Thievery being combined to Engineering, to cover disabling machinery, creating items and the like, and it would bring the total skills more in line with what the system expects. Though I won't complain either way it comes out, but I wouldn't be upset dealing with the minor headache of those conversions.
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While I stand by compatibility being a good thing and I'm glad the core rules will hold up both games, I do wish we could have the skills converted over to being in line with Starfinder's setting even if it could cause minor hiccups for the GM to adjudicate when converting between games.
Things like Crafting and Thievery being combined to Engineering, to cover disabling machinery, creating items and the like, and it would bring the total skills more in line with what the system expects. Though I won't complain either way it comes out, but I wouldn't be upset dealing with the minor headache of those conversions.
I agree. I play both SF1e and PF2e and like them both. Some of the rule differences get confusing going back and forth, but mixing up skill names ha never been a problem.
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I mean . . . 'biology' lore? 'Physics' Lore? Like I said, there already is an Engineering lore.Honestly it is pretty funny to think that you couldn't imagine Lore as Science skills,I can imagine it just fine, lore just sounds weird in the context of high tech Science. Can you imagine using Life Science and Physical Science in PF2e? I can but wouldn't want to.
Engineering lore to me sounds like how a mechanic in Starfinder would talk about the history of pre-gap Engineering. I think it would be really cool if a mystic in Starfinder had to learn arcana lore to be able to learn ancient spells from the Pathfinder setting. Not keeping the skills separate would be a missed opportunity for some really interesting interaction between the 2 settings. I love the idea of PF2e characters time-traveling to Starfinder and having to deal with future shock. Or Starfinder characters having to take down time to research and learn ancient lore to help explore pre-gap ruins from PF2e.