Taken past tier 5 a Mythic party can pretty much kill a demon lord in one round without getting a scratch. (Since they will beat his init and blast him to vapor before he can act!)
The Gestalt/Alternate Mythic that GM Delmoth listed, "Shamelessly stolen" were:
Alternate Mythic
(Shamelessly stolen from GM Toothy, thanks for the inspiration!)
You will not gain the usual benefits of mythic, but instead gain the following:
Mythic Abilities: Hard to Kill (as normal),
Mythic Power: (1 per tier/day, recover only 1/day)
Surge: (as normal).
You gain no other mythic abilities.
Ability Score Increase: Only 1 instead of 2.
Mythic Feats: You get a regular feat instead.
Upgraded Traits: All your campaign traits are upgraded at some point.
Prestige Class: When you get your first mythic tier, you must choose a 10-level prestige class. You receive an additional number of HP equal to half+1 of the prestige class HD. You also gain the abilities correspondent to your mythic tier as if it was your class level in that prestige class, however you only gain these abilities if you meet all the prerequisites of the prestige class (as an example, if you take Arcane Archer but your BAB is only +4 at the moment, you’ll only receive the enhance arrows ability when your BAB reaches +6). You gain no increase in BAB, saves, skill points or class skills. You are also limited to the normal cap for a given ability of your own level (a 6th level wizard taking the veiled illusionist PrC would not receive an increase in spellcasting, since he is already at the maximum for a 6th level PC, however, if he later take a level in rogue, he would receive that increase retroactively; on a similar case, a 7th level rogue would not be able to benefit from a sneak attack increase above 4d6).
So not standard gestalt. You play a regular character until the game would normally make you Mythic. At that point you gain the first "Gestalt" level of your chosen PrC. But, you really only get some HP and the abilities granted by the PrC, and only if you qualify for the abilities as explained above. Even without the little bits of Mythic above that can make an interesting character!
The game these rules were created for then migrated to Discord, but I've also merged the Hero Point rules into the "mythic" system in a way that you'd spend mythic power for the hero points benefits.
Another important thing to consider about these alternate rules, is the number of players. As usual, the WotR AP was created for a group of 4 players and was considered "very easy", but the game I've created these rules was for 6 players.
While there is no way to compare a regular mythic character with these Light-Gestalt-PrC, a more fair comparison would be 4 mythic characters to 6 of these gestalt-PrCs. I'm pretty sure the mythic party would crush the gestalts, but the game was supposed to be tougher than normal.
Taken past tier 5 a Mythic party can pretty much kill a demon lord in one round without getting a scratch. (Since they will beat his init and blast him to vapor before he can act!)
Aren't those Demon Lords also supposed to be Mythic?
Aren't those Demon Lords also supposed to be Mythic?
Yep! But there are four Mythic players using mythic bonuses to their initiative and various powers. That why people call it rocket tag. In rocket tag whoever goes first wins.
For pf1 adventures the design teams writing the adventures have generally designed difficulty to the lowest common denominator. That is to a player who isn't invested in their build and will choose suboptimal options because it sounds cool.
When you get that with at least one player who heavily invests in their build optimization it will skew the difficulty. This is true in non-mythic but is sharply apparent in mythic.
For pf1 adventures the design teams writing the adventures have generally designed difficulty to the lowest common denominator. That is to a player who isn't invested in their build and will choose suboptimal options because it sounds cool.
When you get that with at least one player who heavily invests in their build optimization it will skew the difficulty. This is true in non-mythic but is sharply apparent in mythic.
With the difference that even those that did not optimize in the least also become very powerful, even if by accident.
This is why to successfully run WotR you need to either rework mythic (or remove or depower) or rework all the encounters.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The way I see, if you’re not reworking every encounter to your group, you’re hurting the game. That said, “combat as sport” is much harder and more involved to get things reworked well. One reason why I dislike “combat as sport.”
I respectfully disagree.
We have many rule books and setting books to allow us to create our own campaigns, but many of us just don't have the time to do so and this is where a published adventure/AP comes in. These specific products are designed to be run as written precisely to let GMs with little time to also have fun.
Reworking every encounter to a group should not be required. Yes, you can tweak a couple things to take advantage of a hook to better engage your players, but not doing so for sure isn't "hurting the game" and I completely disagree with any idea that comes close to "having a right way to play".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The way I see, if you’re not reworking every encounter to your group, you’re hurting the game. That said, “combat as sport” is much harder and more involved to get things reworked well. One reason why I dislike “combat as sport.”I respectfully disagree.
We have many rule books and setting books to allow us to create our own campaigns, but many of us just don't have the time to do so and this is where a published adventure/AP comes in. These specific products are designed to be run as written precisely to let GMs with little time to also have fun.
Reworking every encounter to a group should not be required. Yes, you can tweak a couple things to take advantage of a hook to better engage your players, but not doing so for sure isn't "hurting the game" and I completely disagree with any idea that comes close to "having a right way to play".
Strongly agreed.
With 2.5’s Mythic rules on the horizon, it will be interesting to see if anything can be adapted for use in 1E by cunning GMs.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is wrong on so many levels. For example, it does not take any additional time what so ever, in fact, using an AP takes more time.
But I’ll need to come back later to give a proper response.
Honestly, please, don't bother. It is already very clear we see things in a completely different manner and I'm not interested in this conversation.
|
If you don't mind the interjection, I'd say the campaign may be better served as "close orbit" instead of full on "core" rules. Stuff like the APG and the Ultimate books help shape the game and its identity as a unique thing beyond a simple DnD homebrew. Plus, the majority of the most powerful options rear their ugly heads in the core rulebook's 9th level casters.
I'd argue that a party with an alchemist, an inquisitor, and even a summoner would be less volatile than one with a druid, cleric, and wizard. Archetypes and Traits are also pretty central to what makes Pathfinder feel like Pathfinder, and what makes your character feel more than just a cosmetic re-flavoring to a generic [Class] build.
All of that said, I'd still be interested in playing, and the core restrictions could be used as a character writing challenge. I'm wondering, what kind of alignment restrictions are you leaning towards? Would you be open to something of a moral foil within the party, so long as we agreed to never directly go against or antagonize the other PCs?
I liked the option GM Delmoth used for Mythic in his game. It doesn't use the Mythic feats or any of the over-powered stuff, but does make the heroes stronger, more "Heroic".
Second this. Much credit should be given to Sir Longears for that IMO. It looks like the most balanced fix for Mythic I've seen in terms of making the players better, without needing an entire hardcover of extra rules.
As for the game I'd apply either way. I'd prefer a few more options than just core, but if that's the jam then I'm in!
Just please don't track encumbrance...
Why not? It is good to prevent Str stat dumping ;)
True! And encumbrance affects you just like armor....
Yeah, I like using encumbrance. It really makes the character who opted for the 10 Str to regret it fast, at least early on.
I mentioned before but its lost to time now, core works for me. I prefer more options but I'm fine with it. The hard part is I hardly ever crack my book anymore and just use d20pfsrd or archives of nethys so sorting out what is core and what is not is another hurdle.
Oh, I've only played with the mythic rules once and the GM ended the campaign because we were blowing everything up. I was toying with the idea of running the campaign but not doing mythic. Not because I see it as OP but bc I did not want to learn it. I'm not sure what I would use in its stead so I remain uncommitted to running the thing. Hope you find the balance you like and get it off the ground.
I liked the option GM Delmoth used for Mythic in his game. It doesn't use the Mythic feats or any of the over-powered stuff, but does make the heroes stronger, more "Heroic".Second this. Much credit should be given to Sir Longears for that IMO. It looks like the most balanced fix for Mythic I've seen in terms of making the players better, without needing an entire hardcover of extra rules.
As for the game I'd apply either way. I'd prefer a few more options than just core, but if that's the jam then I'm in!
Consider me still very interested. I think playing CORE-only gets a bad rap, and people can forget how fun the "simplicity " can be.
So, is this still happening?
I feel it is unlikely to happen. It was just an interest check and while there is interest, it has been pointed out a good amount of issues with the premise to the point that I believe Albion gave up.
Fair enough.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The thread was whether there would be those interested in playing or running the game. There was interest in playing, but not in running it ;)
For now unfortunately I believe I do not have the bandwidth to run it either, even more so because of all the issues which were pointed out. Going off-road on the story or the RP is not an issue, but RL dictates I do not have time for much mechanical customization/adaptation in my games (that is why I am beginning to like Core more and more), and this feels like it would be very far from a 'plug and play' game.