A fellow player made me realise today when they were trying to use Battle Medicine while wielding a 2 handed sword that in the updated Player Core, they removed the part of the Battle Medicine requirements that you need to have a hand free.
Requirements You are holding healer's tools, or you are wearing them and have a hand free
Requirements You’re holding or wearing a healer’s toolkit (page 288)
Do you guys think that was intentional? Definitely feels like it isn't, but figured I'd make a thread. Just to bring it to attention in case that needs an errata or not.
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It's important to note that using Healer's Tools still requires at least 1 free hand.
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It's important to note that using Healer's Tools still requires at least 1 free hand.Yes it's part of changes to makes the use of [url=https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2207]Wearing Toolkits
more clear.
It's important to note that using Healer's Tools still requires at least 1 free hand.Yes it's part of changes to makes the use of Wearing Toolkits more clear.
Hmm if would've been nice if they noted that wearing the toolkit meant you can use it with 1 hand like the old healers tools said. It feels more confusing now having to dig down into the references for toolkits instead of just looking at what's on Battle Medicine. It doesn't even clearly state "You can use it with one hand if you're wearing it". In fact that lack of that of specificity makes me muse that people can easily read it as Battle Medicine being a feature that overrides needing hands since holding a toolkit only takes one hand now anyway?
I guess looking again the change to healer tools is that you can choose to 2 hand it. If you wanted to for some reason. Since at its base its 1 or 2 hands even without wearing it.
I feel like this reminds me of a thread back in 2020 where the original battle medicine text had no prereq text at all I think and there were only implications of how Healers Tools were used. The difference being at that time there was no previous version where it was clear a hand was needed.
So I predict many more players being confused about it like my friend was.
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It's important to note that using Healer's Tools still requires at least 1 free hand.Yes it's part of changes to makes the use of Wearing Toolkits more clear.
I fixed your link.
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I'm glad Paizo decided to recreate this fixed problem for the remaster.
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I'm glad Paizo decided to recreate this fixed problem for the remaster.
This is technically not a remaster change, as NO printing of the Core Rule Book, nor PDF, have that wording. I think that might be an extra reminder that AoN added themselves?
Looking at the copy-fitting of the 4th printing of CRB, I don't think it would have fit there without needed to reduce wording for other spell, or the main description.The copy-fitting of the Player Core would allow it, BUT again, that's was never their own change, and were probably unaware of the change AoN made there.
It's important to note that using Healer's Tools still requires at least 1 free hand.Yes it's part of changes to makes the use of Wearing Toolkits more clear.Hmm if would've been nice if they noted that wearing the toolkit meant you can use it with 1 hand like the old healers tools said. It feels more confusing now having to dig down into the references for toolkits instead of just looking at what's on Battle Medicine. It doesn't even clearly state "You can use it with one hand if you're wearing it". In fact that lack of that of specificity makes me muse that people can easily read it as Battle Medicine being a feature that overrides needing hands since holding a toolkit only takes one hand now anyway?
I guess looking again the change to healer tools is that you can choose to 2 hand it. If you wanted to for some reason. Since at its base its 1 or 2 hands even without wearing it.
I feel like this reminds me of a thread back in 2020 where the original battle medicine text had no prereq text at all I think and there were only implications of how Healers Tools were used. The difference being at that time there was no previous version where it was clear a hand was needed.
So I predict many more players being confused about it like my friend was.
Because this prevents conflicting rules. Even being more difficult to recursively check the rules this diminishes the risk of conflicting rules in reprints. It's like the old focus point received from focus feats where we had multiple rules interacting giving different interpretations where you get or not focus points. Now we just have one general rule to rule all.
Keeping the number of hands in the item prevents dubious interpretations with actions and activities that explicity says the same thing in a different way.
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I'm glad Paizo decided to recreate this fixed problem for the remaster.This is technically not a remaster change, as NO printing of the Core Rule Book, nor PDF, have that wording. I think that might be an extra reminder that AoN added themselves?
Looking at the copy-fitting of the 4th printing of CRB, I don't think it would have fit there without needed to reduce wording for other spell, or the main description.
The copy-fitting of the Player Core would allow it, BUT again, that's was never their own change, and were probably unaware of the change AoN made there.
From the FAQ for the Core Rulebook:
Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.” Change the second sentence of the effect to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.” This means you need to use your healer's tools for Battle Medicine, but you can draw and replace worn tools as part of the action due to the errata on wearing tools on page 287.
Update: We will be updating the tools revamp to indicate that worn healer's tools (along with other tool kits) take only one hand to use, as you don't have to hold the whole kit in your other hand, just pull out the things you need. What this means for Battle Medicine is that you only need one free hand to perform it with worn healer's tools, you don't need both hands.
Whether or not that actually made it into a printing, I don't know, but it did originate with Paizo. The specific wording may have been AoN interpreting this text.
At any rate, the problem does seem to exist again, but at least this is still out there to point to from the pre-remaster (if you can find it).
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm glad Paizo decided to recreate this fixed problem for the remaster.This is technically not a remaster change, as NO printing of the Core Rule Book, nor PDF, have that wording. I think that might be an extra reminder that AoN added themselves?
Looking at the copy-fitting of the 4th printing of CRB, I don't think it would have fit there without needed to reduce wording for other spell, or the main description.
The copy-fitting of the Player Core would allow it, BUT again, that's was never their own change, and were probably unaware of the change AoN made there.From the FAQ for the Core Rulebook:
Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.” Change the second sentence of the effect to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.” This means you need to use your healer's tools for Battle Medicine, but you can draw and replace worn tools as part of the action due to the errata on wearing tools on page 287.
Update: We will be updating the tools revamp to indicate that worn healer's tools (along with other tool kits) take only one hand to use, as you don't have to hold the whole kit in your other hand, just pull out the things you need. What this means for Battle Medicine is that you only need one free hand to perform it with worn healer's tools, you don't need both hands.Whether or not that actually made it into a printing, I don't know, but it did originate with Paizo. The specific wording may have been AoN interpreting this text.
At any rate, the problem does seem to exist again, but at least this is still out there to point to from the pre-remaster (if you can find it).
The update was talking about updating the "tool rules" section, not the feat. But yeah, that's probably what AoN mistakenly understood to be an errata on the feat itself. I have all prints of the books, and kept copies of all PDF versions. And yeah, it was NEVER added in the books by Paizo.