I'm looking for good armor tips to negate armor check penalties, increase max dex cap, reduce arcane spell failure, etc. I'm trying to figure out ways to get a good AC while reducing the burden of wearing armor.
I favor full arcane spellcasters, but I may want to try classes that can use light armor such as a bard or gunslinger.
Thanks in advance.
This thread has a few ideas.
Mithral and similar special material is your starting point.
A Fighter’s Armor Training can reduce the ACP and increase the maximum DEX bonus. VMC fighter can grant this ability to other classes.
Celestial Armor has greatly reduced penalties above what Mithral can give.
The trait Armor Expert will reduce the ACP by 1.
I didn't see in the thread above this item so i'll post it here.
sometime it's cheaper then picking a mithral or darkleaf cloth for your armor type. and it can help moving fast when it matter even if you end up with a heavy armor turned into medium.
also I like to remind anyone who relay on the heavier armors that this neat item is there to help donning them.
1) take the armor off.
2) some armors and shields have better numbers and usually cost more, so better shopping.
3) if it is only 1 then masterwork.
4) low numbers can be abated with special materials.
5) agile.
6) magic or magic items. Some low level spells allow instant(or casting time) dressing/undressing so you just need an armor stand.
for arcane spellcasters the base is mage armor, haramaki, buckler, then ceremonial/parade armor plus enhancements, spdrsilk bodysuit plus enhancements, agile mithral breastplate plus enhancements, spellcaster's (quickdraw) shield plus enhancements, and finally celestial armor.
Obscuring Mist, Vanish, Ablative Barrier, False Life, Blur, Blink/Displacement, Illusion of Calm, Mirror Image, all come into play before Stoneskin and Project Image.
a few caster types have a class ability to wear heavier armors at reduced penalty, Magus is one of them, there are also a couple of archetypes for wizards.
@Mysterious Stranger
Seeing the stat differences between celestial armor and mithral breastplate is what got me curious if there were options for designing your own armor. I suppose this question should have been directed at Wizards of the Coast 20 odd some years ago since the armor was written by them around then.
@Azothath
I think I figured most of the equipment and spells you've mentioned. I'm guessing spellcaster's (quickdraw) shield is a quickdraw shield with the enhancements of spellcaster's shield.
Am I correct in assuming when you say "plus enhancements", it is for adding whatever armor enhancements I want.
While I'm thinking about it, are there any spells that are better versions of mage armor, or a shield spell that last longer than minutes per level? I tried looking but I couldn't find any.
Celestial armor gives you an armor bonus of 9 (or 11 if you upgrade) vs a mage armor with an armor bonus of 4. Bracers of armor can get expensive.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
OmniMage wrote: While I'm thinking about it, are there any spells that are better versions of mage armor, or a shield spell that last longer than minutes per level? I tried looking but I couldn't find any. Not without the Words of Power optional rules, specifically the armor words and the lengthy meta word, as far as I know. There is also the Enduring Armor archmage path ability if the campaign allows mythic rules.
OmniMage wrote: Celestial armor gives you an armor bonus of 9 (or 11 if you upgrade) vs a mage armor with an armor bonus of 4. Bracers of armor can get expensive. For pure AC (not considering incorporeal touch attacks), a +X haramaki is much more cost efficient than bracers of armor. Also, the +X haramaki can include armor qualities that can't be added to bracers of armor (like deathless, mirrored, restful, energy resistance, etc.). Similarly, a +X mithral buckler is usually more cost-effective than a ring of force shield and has better action economy than a wand of shield. Note that the haramaki and mithral shield are both valid targets for the magic vestment spell, if you can somehow gain access (or have an ally to cast it).
OmniMage wrote: @Azothath
I think I figured most of the equipment and spells you've mentioned. I'm guessing spellcaster's (quickdraw) shield is a quickdraw shield with the enhancements of spellcaster's shield.
Am I correct in assuming when you say "plus enhancements", it is for adding whatever armor enhancements I want.
yes(some campaigns are picky about "named" items) & yes. A Caster's Shield yields cash savings around the 17th scroll.
As Wealth by Level increases so do defenses. The jumps are somewhat campaign dependent and spells form the majority of the defense.
There are definitely enough options available to completely negate Armor Check penalties.
Mithral Fullplate has an ACP of -3
The comfort magic quality reduces that by 1 (bringing it to -2)
The Armor Expert and Sargavan Guard traits each reduce by 1 (for a total of 0)
*The Nimble armor modification also reduces the penalty by -1. It also increases the max dex bonus by 2, at the cost of -1 to the armor bonus.
For Arcane Spell Failure chance, your options are more limited unless you have specific class features that help.
Again using the typical "best" heavy armor - full plate has a 35% ASF.
Mithral reduces that by 10% to 25%
Even if you spend two feats (Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery) and a swift action, that's only 20% reduction, still leaving you with a 5% failure chance.
The better option may be the Still Spell metamagic feat. There's no ASF on spells without somatic components. While a rod of Still Spell has not been explicitly published, you can talk to your GM about whether or not you can buy one. Still Amber metamagic gems and Caster's Tattoos definitely do exist but can get quite expensive. Again there are class abilities that can help (such as a Universalist wizard's 8th-level school power) and there's the incredibly stupid Sacred Geometry. That feat is banned by most GMs because - a)it can really slow down the game and b)it's extremely powerful because by about 5th or 6th level it's almost always a success.
Non-Procficiency: Armor check penalty and shield use penalty applies to all attack rolls, Dex and Str based skill checks. A character’s encumbrance may also incur an armor check penalty. This is why an ArmrChk:0 is desirable.
Sadly Armor Trick(Cmbt: Acro, Mobility centric) requires proficiency with the armor. A level dip may fix that as spending a feat on your armor is somewhat build dependent.
Swift Girding:T1{don armr}.
False Face:T1 (into alternate identity without armor), Alter Self:T2 (into yourself(or other crtr) without armor) with +2 Str (Med crtr).
Comfort (SpAbil) +$5000(!) but clean, slept in as lgt armr, no penalty to resist effects of extreme heat, counts as cold-weather clothing, ArmrChk penalty reduced by 1 (to 0).
The gold standard: Celestial Armor [armr] $22400 +3 (special material) chainmail (med->lgt armr) AC:+9 MaxDex:+8 ArmrChk:-2(!) SplFail:15% Spd30:30 Hrd:16 HP:60 20lb $22400(=100 +mw 150 +3 enhc 9000 +fly:T3@5(cmmd $1800/(1/d)5) 5400 +special material $7750). Really could use some help with ArmrChk.
Example: +1 mw mithral breast plate (med armr) AC:+7 MaxDex:+5 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:15% Spd30:30 Hrd:17 HP:55 15lb $5200(=200 +mithral 4000(incl mw $150) +1 enhc 1000). SplFail 15% isn't bad and as mentioned the still spell makes it 0% for a key spell like Alter Self:T2.
Example: Raiment of (Mithral) Chains [armr] $7200 a +1 chain shirt magic item don/remove as move action. Mithral moves it to +1 mw mithral chain shirt (lgt armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+6 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:10% Spd30:30 Hrd:17 HP:40 12.5lb $7200(=100 +mithral 1000(incl mw $150) +1 enhc 1000 + magic $4950). So a bit less protection(same AC as Mage Armor) with some extra CM tricks.
Example: mw Spider-silk bodysuit (lgt armr) AC:+3 MaxDex:+6 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:10% Spd30:30 Hrd:0 HP:15 4lb $1000(=850 +mw 150). Darkleaf cloth +$750(-150 if mw) MaxDex:+8 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:5% but honestly better suited to higher penalty armor.
Example: Silken Ceremonial Armor (lgt armr) AC:+1 MaxDex:- ArmrChk:0 SplFail:0% Spd30:30 Hrd:0 HP:5 8lb $30.
Best Lgt Armor for Arcane Casters - thread Oct 2014
Homebrew Special Material: Hagcloth by Azothath
I don't know why there is no metamagic still spell rod either. I figure that the reason might be because you had to move the rods to activate them, which defeats the purpose of still spell metamagic. However, in this case, still spell is not being used to remain completely still, it is to avoid arcane spell failure.
The drawbacks for arcane armor training feats is it takes 4 feats to get the 20% ASF perk, and you have to spend a swift action each turn to use it. It makes it difficult to use quicken spell later.
I'd like to suggest the magic item Bracers of Armor. They can give up to +8 Armor AC with no ACP or Dex cap. They take up the wrist slot but are perfect for characters that can't wear armor like monks or full arcane casters. It can get a little pricey but so does enchanting actual armor.
Heather 540 wrote: I'd like to suggest the magic item Bracers of Armor... can get a little pricey... *that* is the logical stinky elephant in the room that everyone is trying to ignore/avoid as the item and bonus is intentionally overpriced.
Bracers of armor are not idea. For bonuses of +1 to +4, you'd be better off with mage armor. Its cheaper and more effective to buy the Wizard a pearl of power 1.
For bonuses of +5 to +8, bracers of armor would be arguably more expensive than normal magic armor. It starts at the cost of a +5 armor and grows from there. Not only that, but if you want some special ability, you need to reduce the maximum armor bonus by that amount because bracers of armor can't exceed a modified bonus of +8. It also can't get bonuses that offer a flat gp increase.
Azothath wrote: Heather 540 wrote: I'd like to suggest the magic item Bracers of Armor... can get a little pricey... *that* is the logical stinky elephant in the room that everyone is trying to ignore/avoid as the item and bonus is intentionally overpriced. (bolding mine)
What do you mean by this? The bonus is priced per the standard "bonus squared x 1000" formula.
Are you saying there are cheaper ways to get a higher bonus? Sure, for most classes. I don't think anyone is avoiding that fact. But the bracers exist specifically to give classes that can't wear armor (monk) a reliable way of having an armor bonus. They are sometimes an option other classes might want to explore (arcane casters or insanely high dex-bonus builds), particularly if you are playing in a CRB only game.
Belafon wrote: Azothath wrote: Heather 540 wrote: I'd like to suggest the magic item Bracers of Armor... can get a little pricey... *that* is the logical stinky elephant in the room that everyone is trying to ignore/avoid as the item and bonus is intentionally overpriced. (bolding mine)
What do you mean by this? ...
that designer chat admitted the bracers (and bonus) are intentionally overpriced as a Game Balance issue to prevent super high AC without some restrictions. It's not something PF invented.
It is a logical but expensive option to avoid ArmrChk penalties (rather than reduce them) and has been known from well before the start of the thread. The late mention was just a bit of a surprise.
It is a RAW option to sidestep ArmrChk penalties along with proficiency, maxium Dex limitations, reduced speed, and weighty armor.
I purposefully did not mention the lower cost option as it can draw ire and expose the Game Balance issue where prices are increased to manage magic. You can research posting history to discover the issue circa 2011-13. I did mention simple and effective methods upstream.
Azothath wrote: 1) take the armor off.
2) some armors and shields have better numbers and usually cost more, so better shopping.
...
> Armored Coat [armr] $50 (med armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+3 ArmrChk:-2 SplFail:20% Spd30:20 Hrd:10 HP:20 20lb. The real benefit is "don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top."
> mw mithral Armored Coat [armr] $4050 (med armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+5 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:10% Spd30:30 Hrd:15 HP:30 10lb.
I still like the +1 mw mithral breast plate if the wearer uses a spell to don or remove the armor but having something close in price that can be mundanely don/remove as a move action is nice.
> Erutaki Coat(armored coat) [armr] $80 (med armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+3 ArmrChk:-2 SplFail:20% Spd30:20 Hrd:5 HP:20 20lb & cold weather outfit, +2 crcm Stlth in snow due to fluffy white fur.
and
> mw darkleaf cloth erutaki coat(armored coat) [armr] $1580 (med armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+5 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:10% Spd30:20 Hrd:10 HP:20 10lb & abilities.
Azothath wrote: > Armored Coat [armr] $50 (med armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+3 ArmrChk:-2 SplFail:20% Spd30:20 Hrd:10 HP:20 20lb. The real benefit is "don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top."
> mw mithral Armored Coat [armr] $4050 (med armr) AC:+4 MaxDex:+5 ArmrChk:0 SplFail:10% Spd30:30 Hrd:15 HP:30 10lb.
Hmm. I could se a GM ruling that you can't have a mithral armored coat.
Mithral, under Special Materials wrote: Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. Armored coat wrote: This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining.
It seems nobody has yet mentioned the cheap solution of armor ointment. 30 gp reduces the armor check penalty by 1 for eight hours (but can't eliminate the penalty entirely).
https://aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Armor%20ointment
Marcella wrote: It seems nobody has yet mentioned the cheap solution of armor ointment. 30 gp reduces the armor check penalty by 1 for eight hours (but can't eliminate the penalty entirely).
Armor Ointment
nice. Applying the ointment takes 1 minute and reduces your armor’s armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of –1) for 8 hours. so -1 is the minimum.
So, as long as you do not go into melee a lot there is a sneaky trick you can try. it get better if your GM allow you to upgrade the chain shirt of this unique armor with Mithral. It should add 1,000 gp to the cost but reduce the acp to 0 and the arcane fail chance to 10% (which can be lowered via feats)
-As it's a unique armor any change from the printed info must have gm approval.
with the normal, non-Mithral item as long as the enemy can't see through illusions and you avoid melee attacks (or any melee that the hitter fail the dc 16 will) this give +9 ac (as a breastplate +3) with the max dex bonus as a chain shirt of up to +4 which is huge for less then 7,000 gp. Since it also stay a light armor that mean better mobility and weight.
adding Mithral as mentioned would bring the dex up to max +6 and the other benefits.
even if the enemy can see through the illusion it's still a +1 chain shirt.
this is my go-to cheap, 'heavy duty' armor for ranged based characters.
|
