I haven't really delved into Starfinder much, so this question occurs: in Pathfinder, a "basic party" consists of a Fighter, a Rogue, a Cleric, and a Wizard. What's the Starfinder equivalent?
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I haven't really delved into Starfinder much, so this question occurs: in Pathfinder, a "basic party" consists of a Fighter, a Rogue, a Cleric, and a Wizard. What's the Starfinder equivalent?
There really isn't one: The game is pretty flexible on group class compositions.
You certainly want one or even two high-Intelligence builds for the Int-based skill checks (Computers and Engineering in particular), but there are a variety of classes that can fit that role (some Biohacker builds, most Mechanics or Technomancers, and some Operative builds in particular).
You might want a Mystic for healing, but the Stamina system reduces both the utility and necessity for this (since spells don't heal stamina).
Interesting. Thanks.
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Two 'non-class' things a party should probably keep in mind:
- Remember the Starship Combat roles and make certain the group can fill the key ones (good pilot, good gunners, and a good engineer in particular)
- Try to split your preferred weapon and armor types up if you can: Equipment 'drops' are very important to gearing, so it helps a bit if everyone isn't looking for the same item and someone want to use the item type that you actually finds (Our current group has found tons of Long Arms that no one likes to use, making them little more than pocket change for the PCs).
Finally, you do probably want a Operative in your group to fill the 'skill monkey' role...
Yeah, I did wonder about the crew thing.
You will almost always want at least one person who's good at tech skills, and more often than not, you'll want someone who's good at interaction skills. Beyond that, it very much depends on the scenario, but having a good spread of skills is best. That's where having an operative is handy, though a well-rounded enough group can survive without one.
As Taja pointed out, there are three essential crew roles that every ship needs. And it's often useful to be able to "switch hit"--for example, having ranks in Piloting even if you're never the pilot, so that you can jump onto a gun when your usual role isn't needed that round.
I haven't really delved into Starfinder much, so this question occurs: in Pathfinder, a "basic party" consists of a Fighter, a Rogue, a Cleric, and a Wizard. What's the Starfinder equivalent?
I'd disagree with that, really. Like, that was the basic party in 1st ed AD&D, mostly because they were the most normal classes that you had. Rangers and paladins were fighter plus bennies. Illusionists were just weirder and somewhat more limited wizards. Druids wee weirder clerics and monks were just weird in general. There was an idea that the four between them covered the basic roles, and it wasn't entirely wrong. It... mostly lasted through 2nd edition as well, from what I knew of it
PF1 inherited the tier system off of 3rd ed, and that just made a mockery of the basic party. Like, people might still have been talking about it on paper, but trying to run a "Basic party" was a terrible idea that would lead to almost inevitable frustration as the levels passed and the fighter (especially) dwindled in usefulness.
Now that we're in PF2...? Nothing stops you from fielding those four, but there's no particularly good reason to, either, and there are reasons to not. You want to have skills coverage, and the "basic party" doesn't really have a cha-based character built in. You want to build up your intraparty synergies, and while there's nothing stopping you from doing that with this group, there's not a lot that's really driving it, either.
You could field a team of four thaumaturges in PF2E and do just fine. Not my point.
I could have posed a slightly different question: In Starfinder, what is the minimum number of different roles generally needed in a party, and what are they? One answer to this upthread is "pilot, engineer, two gunners" because after all, Starfinder has spaceships. I suppose then you could go on to "which class(es) are best for each of these roles" but I suspect the answer to that is "it doesn't matter".
For the pilot role, either a mystic with the Star Shaman connection or an operative (just about any specialization) are at or near the top choices. However, any character with high Dex and max ranks in Piloting can serve.
The engineer and science officer roles can usually be handled by any character that can max out Engineering and Computers (and possibly gain scaling bonuses them); you can have one character for both (not at the same time) or have multiple characters that can fill either role as needed.
Gunners can be any character with full BAB or high ranks in Piloting.
Outside of starship combat, a full BAB class and at least one caster are useful. As long as there is a decent spread of skills among party members (with some minor overlap for aid another), you don't really need to overthink things.
I haven't really delved into Starfinder much, so this question occurs: in Pathfinder, a "basic party" consists of a Fighter, a Rogue, a Cleric, and a Wizard. What's the Starfinder equivalent?
my third ish favorite thing about starfinder is almost any group of mixed nuts can succeed. Most of your healing comes from stamina points coming back via a ten minute coffee break and you can do the rest with a 6 pack of healing serums.
You really need a beatstick, a skills person, and a face.
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...Compared against the D&D tradition, there's no need for a "skills" person, because in Starfinder 'skills' are a broader thing. The ones that are actually critical to have fall under 'Tech' and 'Diplomacy', and the rest are more optional.
...
Yes, and no:
One thing to remember about skills is that target DCs typically increase by 3 points every 2 character levels, so staying good with a skill will take more than just putting as many ranks in it as you can: You really need a class with a scaling insight bonus to your skill(s) of choice to not actually fall behind at higher levels.
IME, skill use in Starfinder is often less about which class you are, but instead 1. how many skill ranks your class gets, and 2. which ability scores your class tends to have prioritized. Technomancers and mechanics are Int-focused, so tend to be the best at "tech" skills (and will have max skill ranks in most of the them), while soldiers are usually the best at Athletics, operatives (and some soldiers) at the Dex skills, envoys at the Cha skills, mystics at Mysticism, etc. And of course, thanks to operative's edge and the class's abundance of skill points, an operative with decent scores in a skill's associated ability can often compete with another class who specializes in that skill.
On average, Starfinder classes get more skill ranks than their nearest equivalents in PF1, but I feel that SF is less forgiving towards characters who shortchange Int. Many essential adventuring skills are trained-only, and every party member will be expected to contribute in some meaningful way to most kinds of skill challenges, even if it's just being able to make attempts to aid now and then.
I wonder how SF2E will affect all this. :-)
Which is.... eight skills? Will you feel the pain if the party is missing Acrobatics, Athletics, Culture, Disguise, Intimidate, Life Science, Medicine, Physical Science, Sleight of Hand, Survival, or Stealth?
Acrobatics and Athletics are commonly required to navigate obstacles. They can occasionally be used to impress NPCs who appreciate physical skills.
Survival is used for overland navigation, enduring environmental conditions, and interacting with animals. Unless you constantly remain in a ship or city, you'll need it eventually.
Culture is how you get languages and knowledge of people and places. Without it, first contact and archaeological missions will be at a severe disadvantage, and you'll routinely miss useful background data on many other missions.
In my experience (mostly SFS), Disguise hardly ever gets used, and Sleight of Hand and Stealth are highly dependent on the scenario. Pretty much everything else gets used fairly regularly, even if it's just to understand clues the PCs find.
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Hmm... what are the essential skills to have in the party?
Piloting, obviously; basic requirement for starship combat.
Computers, Engineering, Mysticism have various basic functions you don't want to miss. Perception to find things. Sense Motive, Bluff, and Diplomacy for the social skills.
Which is.... eight skills? Will you feel the pain if the party is missing Acrobatics, Athletics, Culture, Disguise, Intimidate, Life Science, Medicine, Physical Science, Sleight of Hand, Survival, or Stealth?
In my limited experience:
Piloting, Computers, and Engineering are Tier 1 skills: You will need to roll them often, and you will really need to actually succeed on these checks.Perception is probably Tier 1 or 2, as it is typically not as important to succeed on, but your mileage may vary if you encounter a lot of traps. It's also a bit harder to be really good at, given the relative scarcity of Wisdom as a key class stat (this skill is one of the reasons the Star Shaman Mystic is such a nice build).
Survival is maybe Tier 2: You probably won't roll it often, but when you do you probably need to succeed. This may vary greatly from campaign to campaign...
Sense Motive, Bluff, and Diplomacy are probably Tier 2 as well, as they tend to be a lot more situational (Diplomacy might be Tier 1).
Mysticism is probably Tier 2, but this will also vary a lot as some campaigns don't seem very magic heavy...
Culture, Life Science, Medicine, and Physical Science are probably Tier 3: You'll roll them fairly often, but succeeding on these checks tend to be 'nice' rather than 'essential'.
Acrobatics, Athletics, Disguise, Intimidate, Slight of Hand, and Stealth tend to be 'personal' skill choices: You take them because your character wants/needs them, not because the party needs them.
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To modify the original post, I would imagine it's not so much about specific classes, as roles the different player should build for. Tank, Skill Monkey, Healer, Caster. Many roles could fit any of those, but that's what's reprsented by the Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard array (DPR split between everyone except maybe healer)
So what roles does a Starfinder party need? are they the same, different? and what are your favorite ways to fill those roles?
I haven't really delved into Starfinder much, so this question occurs: in Pathfinder, a "basic party" consists of a Fighter, a Rogue, a Cleric, and a Wizard. What's the Starfinder equivalent?
In Starfinder, a “basic party” can be seen as analogous to the classic Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard party composition in Pathfinder. Here’s a breakdown of the typical roles and their Starfinder equivalents:
1. **Fighter (Pathfinder) - Soldier (Starfinder):
• The Soldier is a frontline combatant proficient with a wide variety of weapons and armor, similar to the Fighter in Pathfinder. They excel in physical combat and can deal significant damage.
2. **Rogue (Pathfinder) - Operative (Starfinder):
• The Operative is a versatile and stealthy character, similar to the Rogue. They specialize in skills, infiltration, and precision attacks. Their ability to deal extra damage through trick attacks mirrors the Rogue’s sneak attack.
3. **Cleric (Pathfinder) - Mystic (Starfinder):
• The Mystic serves as the primary healer and support character, akin to the Cleric. They wield magic to heal and buff allies, and can also deal damage with their spells.
4. **Wizard (Pathfinder) - Technomancer (Starfinder):
• The Technomancer is the main arcane spellcaster, similar to the Wizard. They blend technology and magic to cast a variety of powerful spells, manipulate technology, and hack systems.
These four classes cover the core roles of combat, skills, healing, and magic. However, Starfinder offers additional classes that can diversify a party further, such as the
Envoy (a charismatic leader and negotiator),
Mechanic (an expert with drones and technology),
Solarian (a warrior who harnesses cosmic energy), and
Vanguard (a resilient combatant focusing on entropy).
Each of these classes brings unique abilities and can fill multiple roles within a party.
I wonder how SF2E will affect all this. :-)
I suspect it will be somewhat similar. Even in pathfinder 2e having an in combat healer is a lot less necessary than previous editions and with the healing elixir stuff in starfinder it is easy enough to sort of handle your own healing as needed for a lot of fights.
That said the new mystic in the playtests gets some darn good healing powers so if a team finds it wants that it can have it.
I think the break down of Combat/diplomacy/tech/magic is likely still going to be the main break down with the tech/magic folks probably handling the healing if it is needed.
To modify the original post, I would imagine it's not so much about specific classes, as roles the different player should build for. Tank, Skill Monkey, Healer, Caster. Many roles could fit any of those, but that's what's reprsented by the Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard array (DPR split between everyone except maybe healer)
So what roles does a Starfinder party need? are they the same, different? and what are your favorite ways to fill those roles?
Currently in starfinder in a group of four you want at least one main combat focused person soldier/solarian with a lot of others who can help with that.
You want some kind of diplomat/face person operative/envoy are generally your best choices but a lot of classes can manage it well if the player builds for it.
Tech you are going to run into a lot of situations where you need to hack something/fix something/bypass something. In starfinder most of the environments you are in are tech heavy and you really want somebody to deal with that. Mechanic/operative/bio hacker/envoy who builds for it are great here.
Magic you usually want at least one magic focused person even tech in this setting involves a lot of magic for the same reason you want a tech person you want a magic peson to handle the other half of that equation. technomage/witchwarper/mystic.
Most classes in starfinder 1st edition are very able to cover at least a couple of those options. If your group communicates a bit so they are not overly duplicating efforts a lot of class mixes work. One weird group I was in was like team ninja it was four operatives. One was real focused on being the party face one was super computer hacking oriented one was more generalist covering a lot of random skills and the fourth was more focused on pure fighting. We were really light on the magic side although we faked it a good bit with equipment but we got by well enough.
One weird group I was in was like team ninja it was four operatives. One was real focused on being the party face one was super computer hacking oriented one was more generalist covering a lot of random skills and the fourth was more focused on pure fighting. We were really light on the magic side although we faked it a good bit with equipment but we got by well enough.
Sounds like the Rules Lawyer's group of four Thaumaturges. :-)
A thought is bouncing around in my head: "Welcome to the Game of Life. What's your build?" :-)