Alrighty, thank for the detailed explanations. The stunned condition and counteracting seem to be the most obtusely written rules I've so far encountered in 2E. So the explanations are very appreciated.
Alrighty, thank for the detailed explanations. The stunned condition and counteracting seem to be the most obtusely written rules I've so far encountered in 2E. So the explanations are very appreciated.Yeah; the rules for counteracting are actually simple once you understand them but I do find they were not well written, at-least in the Core Rulebook.
Same, I had to go through them about five times before I got gist of it.
Counteract rules being obtuse and cumbersome does have the added benefit of me never seeing counterspell on the table, which I love as a DM, bc game mechanics that boil down to "nuh uh that doesn't happen" have always seemed so dull and counterproductive to good table fun/stories
What I understand is that you can't act while stunned. So if you are stunned 2 then you can't act while those 2 actions, then the stun ends and you can, but then there is no stun.
At this point, I think we should just have a FAQ/Errata about "Stunned on your own turn".
This is something that isn't really a viable, or reliable, tactic, but can be easily replicated with Stunning Fist. So it seems like a clear and concise official address is necessary.
I'm in the camp that Stunned 1 is not Slowed 1, but I would like to see some clarification on that.
The way I see it is stunned is just a better/alternate version of slow. It is a really bizarre status which does the exact same thing as Slow does. However it adds the bonus of you being mindless until it ends which if you manage to get stunned before your turn you are FULLY unable to use any reactions but then you pay 1 action for stunned 1 for example and get to now act for 2 of those turns.
While slow only reduces the actions you get but doesn't consider you mindless which means you can retain your ability to use reactions which for some classes, being stunned like a Champion is extremely painful since not only are you down 1 action but down your Champion's Reaction, while being slowed doesn't stop you from simply using your Champion's Reaction but still removes 1 action point.
The way I see it is stunned is just a better/alternate version of slow. It is a really bizarre status which does the exact same thing as Slow does. However it adds the bonus of you being mindless until it ends which if you manage to get stunned before your turn you are FULLY unable to use any reactions but then you pay 1 action for stunned 1 for example and get to now act for 2 of those turns.
While slow only reduces the actions you get but doesn't consider you mindless which means you can retain your ability to use reactions which for some classes, being stunned like a Champion is extremely painful since not only are you down 1 action but down your Champion's Reaction, while being slowed doesn't stop you from simply using your Champion's Reaction but still removes 1 action point.
That’s how I saw it too, although Slowed also seems to have longer durations. I haven’t seen Stun apply over many turns but Slow sometimes lasts up to a minute.
I run Stun as no actions meaning no reactions or free actions until Stun clears. Otherwise, it's just slow. You are not even flat-footed or anything else. It seems like Stunned would be something different and better from being slowed. The way they wrote it, it seems like slow and however your DM interprets no actions.
You would have thought the target would be off-guard, but nope. They really nerfed stunned from PF1. Wish they would make it standout from slow in a clearer fashion.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To me, it's simple. When you're stunned 1, you can't act until you get to your turn and pay the action. If it happens during your turn own, you are screwed.
The "You Can't Act" portion is one of the reasons, IMO, why it doesn't last as long as most Slow effects and it often has the Incapacitation trait.
If you stun yourself at the end of your turn you're screwed but at the start you could simply pay it off and continue...If I am reading thsi right from people.
No there is a specific time that allows paying the stun with a value off. That is when your turn begins and you would gain actions for the turn.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The you cant act is always on while you have stun. The duration version is always on until the duration is up, the value kind is always on until its taken enough new actions that would be gained at the start of your turns to go down to 0.
If you stun yourself at the end of your turn you're screwed but at the start you could simply pay it off and continue...If I am reading thsi right from people.
The basic assumption is that if you are stunned on your turn, it's because you already spent an action before.
However, the Psychic's feature that stuns them works just fine, because it's written to be just an Action cost at the start of their turn.
My take about you being screwed is only on those situations where you get whacked by a Flurry of Blows, or similar effect, on your own turn and get unlucky.
Ok...
RAI:
Intention of Stun seems to me to be... reduce how many actions the victim gets to take, and keep them from being able to react to events for a time based on the severity of the Stun.
I think in a basic sense it is easy enough to believe the basic concept is you lose a turn... or rather a certain number of portions of your turn, based on the severity of the turn.
I think RAI it isn't hard to imagine that if STUNNED occurs during someone's turn, it isn't impossible to accept that it would be reasonable for them to pay off... or lose some of their remaining turns from their remaining turn.
I would agree however, paying off your stun during your turn, could present the situation where they don't lose any time period where they can't react, and that would seem unintended.
My suggestion, allow actions you already have to reduce your stunned condition becomes Stunned 0 round, which prevents you from using any reactions until you regain actions again.
So in theory, one could strike on their term, be interrupted and Stunned, lose 1 action, spending 1 existing action to reduce the stunned condition, leaving them with the ability to use 1 more actions. However, they would be unable to use a reaction until their next turn. Stun conditions removed by burning actions during gaining the action regain their ability to use reactions immediately when the stun count is paid down as a gained action cost.
Now stunned does what it is supposed to, eats up actions according to its severity. And it also stops someone from being able to react to things for a time commensurate to the severity of the stun.
Now being stunned is appropriately bad, be it occurring during your turn, or during someone else's turn. Both similarly impactful, neither TGTBT nor TBTBT.