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I was excited today that I figured out how to taunt. It's only one action and fits in unexpected builds.
Dump charisma. Keep deception untrained. Don't take Untrained Improvisation. Feint.
By mid game you'll be critically failing against every foe's perception DC, and making yourself off-guard to the target of your feint!
Good at deception? Don't worry! It's a bit more action intensive but you can manage just fine.
Drop Prone! Become an irresistible target! Even works to bait ranged targets and multiple creatures at once.
Got 3 actions and a reaction on hand?
Ready a Stand! Aha! Now they don't even get to take advantage of your -2 penalty.
Have a shield? Ready a Raise a Shield! That way you don't have to waste an action to Drop Prone next round.
Have master in Acrobatics? Finally make use of that Nimble Crawl skill feat and Ready to Crawl away and out of range of any enemy that tries to target you!
Legendary even lets you fake having an AC penalty!
Extra deceptive without deception! Meta-deception!
Anyway, hope this was fun for you reading it. It was definitely fun for me thinking about it.
Got any other ways to "taunt"?
I approve. Some of this even looks like something I could do in combat.
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Farien, if you attempt anything of the sort, I will no longer be giving you Independent ability until after the Remaster drops.
Just go all the way and grab Unexpected Sharpshooter to be the bumbling oaf on the battlefiend.
More seriously, echoing Meatshed - I think it would be some bad RP on the GMs part to have the character who does nothing in combat draw that much ire. I also can't tell if this is a comedy post or not, but bravo either way.
It's largely comedy. I think the crit fail Feint thing could meaningfully bait/taunt, provided you were using your first two actions to do something threatening and meaningfully apply pressure. It's mostly really funny to me because it does make you more enticing to target, but it's definitely not the intended use of that action.
The fact that the natural 20 is the only thing that ruins the "taunt" is just an even funnier consequence.
But to continue questionable tactics development, Grapple attempts aren't penalized while prone! Could make you an extra tempting target, haha.
But to continue questionable tactics development, Grapple attempts aren't penalized while prone! Could make you an extra tempting target, haha.
This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.
I still think there's room for this sort of stuff though. Like, the unarmed champion is very much a thing who just "taunts" through sheer virtue of existing and being a nuisance on the frontlines.
EDIT: Ignore me! I was wrong!
It's largely comedy. I think the crit fail Feint thing could meaningfully bait/taunt, provided you were using your first two actions to do something threatening and meaningfully apply pressure. It's mostly really funny to me because it does make you more enticing to target, but it's definitely not the intended use of that action.
The fact that the natural 20 is the only thing that ruins the "taunt" is just an even funnier consequence.
But to continue questionable tactics development, Grapple attempts aren't penalized while prone! Could make you an extra tempting target, haha.
Somehow, that's even better. It's like feinting so Hard that you actually strike the opponent. Either way, it's a good thing.
But to continue questionable tactics development, Grapple attempts aren't penalized while prone! Could make you an extra tempting target, haha.This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.
I still think there's room for this sort of stuff though. Like, the unarmed champion is very much a thing who just "taunts" through sheer virtue of existing and being a nuisance on the frontlines.
Is there some way to negate this penalty? I know you can move at full speed prone, but if you could also negate the attack and AC penalty you could arm yourself with dual katars and be Voldo.
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This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.
Wildly, attack rolls are a special kind of roll that isn't defined by having the attack trait.
All attack rolls have the attack trait, but not all attack trait actions are attack rolls.
Came up in an early errata.
I vaguely remember that, it's the same reason Bless gives a +1 to attack rolls (as in strikes) but not to maneuvers with the Attack trait.
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This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.Wildly, attack rolls are a special kind of roll that isn't defined by having the attack trait.
All attack rolls have the attack trait, but not all attack trait actions are attack rolls.
Came up in an early errata.
Whoop! You got me there! I'll link it here just to be safe.
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Yeah, basically attack trait defines a relationship to Multiple Attack Penalty, but Grapple is still an athletics check rather than an "attack roll", which has its own definition in the rules. Makes Song of Strength not completely eclipsed by Inspire Courage, and I think it's how the "finesse for dex-based athletics actions" interpretation was removed.
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Is there some way to negate this penalty? I know you can move at full speed prone, but if you could also negate the attack and AC penalty you could arm yourself with dual katars and be Voldo.But to continue questionable tactics development, Grapple attempts aren't penalized while prone! Could make you an extra tempting target, haha.This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.
I still think there's room for this sort of stuff though. Like, the unarmed champion is very much a thing who just "taunts" through sheer virtue of existing and being a nuisance on the frontlines.
There is! But its still a pretty niche option. The Zombie archetype has a feat called ankle biter which treats you as always taking cover against ranged attacks while prone (effectively negating the penalty from being prone) and ignores the penalty to your attacks rolls. It also has some nice bonuses like a bonus to trip which as stated in this thread isnt affected by the prone penalty. And allows you to move further while crawling.
Now of course its a rare archetype and you still are vulnerable to melee enemies but if you wanted to make a fun ground crawling build that would be the place to start.
This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.Wildly, attack rolls are a special kind of roll that isn't defined by having the attack trait.
All attack rolls have the attack trait, but not all attack trait actions are attack rolls.
Came up in an early errata.
Yup. My 'favorite' is that Escape is an attack.
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Yup. My 'favorite' is that Escape is an attack.This one, sadly, isn't true. You take a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, and Grapple has the Attack trait.Wildly, attack rolls are a special kind of roll that isn't defined by having the attack trait.
All attack rolls have the attack trait, but not all attack trait actions are attack rolls.
Came up in an early errata.
I used this to great effect while grappling an invisible opponent. Who tried to Escape.
It's largely comedy. I think the crit fail Feint thing could meaningfully bait/taunt, provided you were using your first two actions to do something threatening and meaningfully apply pressure. It's mostly really funny to me because it does make you more enticing to target, but it's definitely not the intended use of that action.
The fact that the natural 20 is the only thing that ruins the "taunt" is just an even funnier consequence.
But to continue questionable tactics development, Grapple attempts aren't penalized while prone! Could make you an extra tempting target, haha.
Any smart enemy isn't going to be goaded by this. Or rather they probably have other criteria they're looking at.
Like if I'm already engaged another enemy, and I got him tripped because I'm a fighter with improved knockdown and he's frightened or I'm fixing to hit the enemy with Intimidating Strike you failing a feint isn't changing what I'm doing.
If I have in mind that I want to take out the spell caster or any specific target, you're failed feint isn't changing my mind.
Only if my tactics are "hit the closest/weakest thing" am I maybe going to be persuaded by your tactics to target you rather than a higher priority target.
You might get some very low intelligence enemies that can't access a combat situation well who you might convince to peel off a target and focus on you, but generally speaking it wont work.
Champions tend to have the best mechanism for "taunting" in that if the champion is near their ally they have reactions that can hinder than enemy if they continue to attack the ally. To the point that an enemy may decide they need to deal with the champion first. But for enemies that are strong enough and know they really want a specific target gone, I don't think even that will persuade an enemy.
Well, yeah? Sorta.
It just factors into the calculus, and depends on how much your enemy and GM leans into it. If it's the start of a fight but you know you handle damage better than your rogue, the enemy doesn't have a ton of reasons to choose the rogue over you because they haven't experienced much of your team's abilities yet. So a free -2 AC is mechanically persuasive in a situation like that, and displaying oafishness can be narratively persuasive.
Same if you're both low health and impactful but your ally is wounded 2-3 and you're not. Unless your GM is really fixing to kill a player, they're usually kinda relieved to have a reason to target somebody else.
I'm not pitching a guaranteed or even strong taunt effect here, but it also actually should work in some situations (unless your GM doesn't like it because it seems to abuse RAW in comical ways). Probably just, like you said, not ones where a squishy psychic is in range and just crit the enemy with an amp'd cantrip.
Like, to categorize when I expect it to work, it's when being off-guard makes you more vulnerable than other targets who haven't significantly drawn more ire than you. Which is still often, just probably not in most situations where you're desperate for a taunt.
For example, it's not terribly different than yee olde Broken Wing Gambit of 1e, which gave the enemy a +2 to hit you. If the enemy actually did try to, it'd provoke attacks of opportunity from allies.
Any enemy who knows exactly what mechanical consequences exist from a Broken Wing Gambit is probably going to avoid attacking you. But the game clearly expected it to be a usable feat that the GM's creatures would go along with (excepting likely those who have been pre-informed of your tactics).
It's actually much worse than Broken Wing Gambit, because you're 2 more likely to be crit and your allies don't get free hits on the enemy. So it should arguably be even more motivational than that 1e feat.
I do wish antagonize was a little better because I do like it as a taunt like upgrade to Demoralize.
I mean, for a braggart Swashbuckler it seems to be very usable as a semi-permanent debuff.
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Yeah, Antagonize and Bon Mot both have that feel of 'I'm going to irritate you and you will take mechanical penalties if you just ignore me.'
