Pretty much. Arcane's biggest flaw is the lack of exclusive spells. It can do a large amount of things, but it also can't do everything the best, either, while still having one obvious issue (which was fine in previous editions, where in-combat healing wasn't necessary).
It only doesn't do something the best by technicality of a lot of arcane stuff being on other lists, but everything it does it does well. For instance it has just about every battlefield control spell, which really feels like the domain of arcane anyways. Primal gets good amount of this too, and occult gets a minor amount of it, but everything of this nature on those lists is on the arcane list save for the planet themed stuff on primal
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Pretty much. Arcane's biggest flaw is the lack of exclusive spells. It can do a large amount of things, but it also can't do everything the best, either, while still having one obvious issue (which was fine in previous editions, where in-combat healing wasn't necessary).It only doesn't do something the best by technicality of a lot of arcane stuff being on other lists, but everything it does it does well. For instance it has just about ever battlefield control spell, which really feels like the domain of arcane anyways. Primal gets good amount of this too, and occult gets a minor amount of it, but everything of this nature on those lists is on the arcane list save for the planet themed stuff on primal
What do you mean a minor amount? They have different control spells, but spells like calm emotions, wall of force, synaptic pulse, slow, charm, and such are great spells for most adventures.
It's once you play an occult caster and sift the list, you see the many valuable spells they have. It synergizes extremely well with the classes that use it. Bard Polymath allowing you to change out spells per day allows you to take high value spells in slots, then pick up additional utility spells as needed. Sorc Occult evolution allows you to take mental spells as needed.
There are a lot of interesting spells on the list.
I was discussing level 7 arcane spells with a friend playing an arcane sorcerer, they weren't great.
The best level 7 arcane spells on the arcane list:
Eclipse Burst: arcane divine primal. (And the primal list also has sunburst, which is a great level 7 blast spell against a common enemy in undead)
True Target: Occult and Arcane
Corrosive or Fiery Body. Primal and Arcane
Maze of Locked Doors: Arcane and Occult (one of those control spells)
Shadow Raid: Arcane and Occult (Another interesting battlfield spell without a sustain)
The only unique level 7 spell on the arcane list that might be situationally useful is Power Word Blind. That's it.
I just used Sunburst against a bunch of undead as a druid. Obliterated them. Divine and Primal list.
The Arcane list is way oversold as the best spell list as some kind of advantage for the wizard. I wish people would stop selling it that way.
I don't sell the arcane list as terrible. I sell it for what it is: the 2nd or 3rd best list depending on whether you want healing or not. Primal goes second if you want a healer who can do other things. Arcane is 2nd if you need more utility along with blasting in your group.
If you want a little bit of nearly everything, you go with Occult.
If you're in a campaign focused on healing and that cleric role, you take the most limited list: divine. Great for an undead or outsider type of adventure, but more limited than the other three.
I don't rate lists by essences, I rate them by roles or abilities:
1. Occult: Can do almost anything. Heal, blast, illusions, mental control, battlefield control, condition removal, debuff, buff.
2a. Arcane: Can do almost anything but heal. Lacks some of the big boss buffs, debuffs, and blasts. Limited summons. Most versatile blaster using force, energy, and mental. Best out of combat utility spells.
2b. Primal. Good at healing, condition removal, energy blasting, good summons, best battle forms, has a mix of blasts for dealing with undead and evil outsiders. Lacks high value buffs, debuffs, and illusions. Best level 10 spell list. Most unique spells on a list. Just had more blasting types added with metal and wood planes added to the game which also added some interesting defensive utility.
3. Divine: Best healing and condition removal. Most versatile summons due to calling on spell using outsiders. Good blasting for alignment and positive/negative energy, which is changing soon. Some decent force blasting against spirits. Some interesting battle form spells unique to their list.
All the lists have some interesting options. The class choices associated with each list have an effect. The arcane list is not advantageous enough to make the wizard more attractive. That has been my main point in these debates.
It's never been the Arcane list is horrible, never use it. It's been I don't consider the arcane list so good that it elevates the wizard in power as it used to do in PF1.
In PF1 the wizard/sorc spell list was number one by a wide margin. They had everything but healing on that list. Once you obtained Limited Wish or Wish, you had access to healing. There were ways in PF1 to sustain Temp hit points at high levels.
It seems to me some people are trying to convince me that the Arcane list is comparable to the PF1 wiz/sorc list. That is a purely false idea. Wiz/sorc list in PF1 was the absolute clearly best list that elevated the wizard to its god status in that game. The PF1 wiz/sorc list was a major, major reason the wizard was as powerful as they were.
The arcane list does not do that in PF2. It's pretty clear the game designers of PF2 understood how powerful the PF1 wiz/sorc spell list was in elevating the PF1 wizard to god status. They made sure the Arcane list did not do that in PF2 on top of every other nerf to the wizard.
I wish the pretense that the Arcane list somehow elevates the wizard in PF2 would stop. It doesn't, probably never will. The Arcane list is one of four traditions with a large number of shared spells and a lot of missing high value spells the wizard/sorc list used to have in PF1 that are still amazing in PF2. So its value is not as high as it was in the previous game and the arcane list is not clearly the best. It's one of four lists with no real ability to elevate classes associated with it as the PF1 wiz/sorc list did in PF1.
The classes associated with the lists have to stand on their own merits because the lists will not elevate any of them. Even when I rate the Occult list as number one, it's number one by a small amount. Not number one by a light year like the sorc/wiz list in PF1. It's a moderately better list than arcane and primal.
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That's a lot to say stuff you've said before, that I have already read and that I was already accounting for in what I said. It's acknowledged in my post that the spells are not unique to arcane, I am saying that arcane gets pretty much all of them though (control spells that is)
Also I do like the occult list. I've said this. I will say however it has a lot of will save oriented spells and a lot fewer spells that target fortitude and reflex
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Its always important to remember that part of what makes Occult and Primal so much better is that their focus spells tend to out perform other traditions.
Cleric easily has the most focus spells because of domain, but most of those are hit or miss. Arcane has the least and the worst focus spells. Primal has average amount and are okay, which mix well with the spell list. Finally, Occult has hands down the best focus spells, which really highlights how favored they are.
Seriously, no matter what angle you take Occult just gets more for seamingly no reason.
Wizards with Arcane, Clerics with Divine, and even Druids with Primal, have been around, more or less, for decades, and even adjusted for several new rules paradigms over that time (such as separating Druid/nature-y/elemental spells out into their own category, rather than lumping them as Divine with Clerics), they follow ancient trends and roles.
Occult spells have been designed fairly recently from the ground up by game designers with years of experience at what has and has not proven sexy with those previous spells, and I suspect that these new ideas are benefitting from these decades of experience.
I don't think it's blatant favoritism, so much as not being bound by trying to 'feel' like something designed many years ago for completely different rules (and no consistent sense of 'balance' or 'optimization').