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I'm just working out what kind of difficulty level would be involved in aquiring information about earth when on Golarion. Would it be a simple DC 20 nature check to know about other worlds, a difficult DC 40 check to know about Cthulu the great old one, common knowledge that Baba Yaga came from earth, some moldy document in the depths of a ruin, utterly impossible?
I feel like if earth is known at all, it's only known by crazy elder mythos scholars, but maybe in a Therassic Spire or other massive arcane library you might find some information. I'd rule impossible without a library, and even then a minimum DC 30 check to learn anything mildly substantial.
2cp
Maybe some information might be hidden, or found, in Irrisen. If you wanted to leave clues rather than have it be research based.
Depending on whether you've finished Reign of Winter, most people's awareness of earth would be contingent on "people know who the monarch of Irrisen is, and they know she's from somewhere else."
There's some 2e plot threads that suggest there's some cross-portal smuggling related to the new monarch of Irrisen going on too.
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I'm just working out what kind of difficulty level would be involved in aquiring information about earth when on Golarion.I imagine it would be akin to the likelihood of someone in our world knowing something about Golarion (actual details about the world, not that it's in some game or related to Pathfinder), who hasn't specifically read something about Golarion (ie. just asking anyone that isn't on these forums or standing near a Comic shop).
It should follow the, 'if you have no reasonable way to know about it, you don't know about it' guideline. It's like asking for a Spellcraft check to identify a spell that is unique and was created by that caster and it only exists in his spellbook.
Otherwise, probably DC 30 for someone that can actually research in a place where the knowledge could be found seems about right. (ie. someone in a comic book shop would have a chance to go in and start looking through books and might find it, but there's probably lots of other comics and books and games and things that would have to be sorted or sifted through).
"Nope, not in this lexicon labeled 'Warhammer 40K'... maybe there's mention of this 'Golarion' in these Munchkin collections."
The difference and my reason for uncertainty is that our world hasn't had someoen from Golarion conquer and claim a country or writings on arcane horrors. I'd be more inclined to liken it to someone knowing about one of the Cthulu mythos horrors that haven't been mass produced, i.e how do you get to Carcosa?
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Does Reign of Winter or anything else focused on Irrisen discuss where exactly Baba Yaga has gotten her daughters from?
Because if any of them were also from Earth, that raises the odds that something about it would filter through to the 3rd and 4th generations of that Jadwiga line and not be culled along with the particular queen and her direct progeny.
Even though she's hidden her death and powerful to the point where it would take a team of demigods or possibly even multiple teams of demigods, Baba Yaga herself seems unlikely to have told anyone about coming from Earth. On the other hand, Reign of Winter has to happen somehow.
I don't know never had a chance to play it but I know enough that the villain has allied with someone born on earth so there has to be something.
Interesting question. I would imagine the DC was very high and a success would yield only basic and vague information. For example:
DC50 Knowledge (dungeoneering) to know of Earth due to its connection to Cthulhu.
DC50 Knowledge (local) to know about Earth’s connection to Baba Yaga.
Maybe DC50 Knowledge (arcana) to have heard of Earth through some obscure lore on low magic planets.
DC50 Knowledge (planes) to know of a link between Earth and The Dark Tapestry.
DC50 Knowledge (geography) to have a rough idea where Earth might be located based on a vague reference to a lost ancient star chart.
Considering how long ago Baba Yaga came from earth and the fact she moved to the first world her origin there is probably not well known. In addition to being so far in the past Baba Yaga probably actively suppresses this knowledge. Most creature of this level do not want anything of their origin known and will spend resources to hide knowledge of them before they became powerful.
It should be at least as difficult as knowing obscure legends of an ancient culture you have no connection to in the real world. So, a DC in the 40 - 50 range would be reasonable.
I think it is broadly known that other material planes such as Earth exist.
Earth specifically:
--Strange Aeons and Reign of winter kind of send you to earth (Paris-Carcosa in the former case)
--People dying on earth are, as far as I know, just petitioners, who get judged by Pharasma like everyone else does. Meaning that just getting access to Psychopomp archives is sufficient, which may well be a good bit less involved then DC 40 to 50.
--As such, the various outsiders that arent psychopomps ho are involved in claiming souls from earth would also know about it.
--The bigger question is why you would want to be there. Earth can, and likely will seek to colonize Golarion if made aware of it. They can likely adapt quicker to magic then Golarion can adapt to overwhelming firepower and number disadvantadges. You could try to do a mysterious trader gig and leverage controlling interplanar transport, but one sizeable issue here is that outsiders can probably outbid you.
Contact with a highly violent, more numerous and better organized culture rarely ends well.
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Knowing other planets exist is not the same as knowing that a specific planet exists. In the real world just about everyone knows other planets exist. But how many people can name a planet outside our own solar system, especially one on the far side of the galaxy.
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Virtually unknown except to a few specific people on Golarion specifically. The planar beings are probably aware of it, as much as any planar being is specifically aware of any of the planets that have life on them in the multiverse.
I think it is broadly known that other material planes such as Earth exist.
Earth specifically:
--Strange Aeons and Reign of winter kind of send you to earth (Paris-Carcosa in the former case)
--People dying on earth are, as far as I know, just petitioners, who get judged by Pharasma like everyone else does. Meaning that just getting access to Psychopomp archives is sufficient, which may well be a good bit less involved then DC 40 to 50.
--As such, the various outsiders that arent psychopomps ho are involved in claiming souls from earth would also know about it.
--The bigger question is why you would want to be there. Earth can, and likely will seek to colonize Golarion if made aware of it. They can likely adapt quicker to magic then Golarion can adapt to overwhelming firepower and number disadvantadges. You could try to do a mysterious trader gig and leverage controlling interplanar transport, but one sizeable issue here is that outsiders can probably outbid you.
Contact with a highly violent, more numerous and better organized culture rarely ends well.
To be clear, Earth is on the same plane as Golarion. Not another one. Just separated by the vastness of space. Reign of Winter sets the Golarion calendar date to the Earth calendar, but I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head.
Ultimately planar beings probably aren't going on and on about Earth because for whatever reason deities seem to prefer to focus on Golarion.
I think the most difficult thing would be learning the Earth specifically exists to even be able to inquire about it. You can't even look for what you don't even suspect exists.
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To be clear, Earth is on the same plane as Golarion. Not another one. Just separated by the vastness of space. Reign of Winter sets the Golarion calendar date to the Earth calendar, but I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head.
From what I gathered playing it, Reign of Winter is at the end or just after the end of WWI, 1918 or 1919. It is after the killing of Nicholas II, so not earlier than 1918.
There is an interesting post here: Golarion Timeline into Perspective via Earth.
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I think it is broadly known that other material planes such as Earth exist.
Earth specifically:
--Strange Aeons and Reign of winter kind of send you to earth (Paris-Carcosa in the former case)
--People dying on earth are, as far as I know, just petitioners, who get judged by Pharasma like everyone else does. Meaning that just getting access to Psychopomp archives is sufficient, which may well be a good bit less involved then DC 40 to 50.
--As such, the various outsiders that arent psychopomps ho are involved in claiming souls from earth would also know about it.
--The bigger question is why you would want to be there. Earth can, and likely will seek to colonize Golarion if made aware of it. They can likely adapt quicker to magic then Golarion can adapt to overwhelming firepower and number disadvantadges. You could try to do a mysterious trader gig and leverage controlling interplanar transport, but one sizeable issue here is that outsiders can probably outbid you.
Contact with a highly violent, more numerous and better organized culture rarely ends well.
Techwise its not currently that much more advanced that Golarion and no demonic invasions, no powerful monsters, no active gods. For a retirement place it looks quite attracctive.
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Techwise its not currently that much more advanced that Golarion and no demonic invasions, no powerful monsters, no active gods. For a retirement place it looks quite attracctive.I think it is broadly known that other material planes such as Earth exist.
Earth specifically:
--Strange Aeons and Reign of winter kind of send you to earth (Paris-Carcosa in the former case)
--People dying on earth are, as far as I know, just petitioners, who get judged by Pharasma like everyone else does. Meaning that just getting access to Psychopomp archives is sufficient, which may well be a good bit less involved then DC 40 to 50.
--As such, the various outsiders that arent psychopomps ho are involved in claiming souls from earth would also know about it.
--The bigger question is why you would want to be there. Earth can, and likely will seek to colonize Golarion if made aware of it. They can likely adapt quicker to magic then Golarion can adapt to overwhelming firepower and number disadvantadges. You could try to do a mysterious trader gig and leverage controlling interplanar transport, but one sizeable issue here is that outsiders can probably outbid you.
Contact with a highly violent, more numerous and better organized culture rarely ends well.
I would argue that Earth, assuming they don't have anyone capable of wielding magic on their side, is at a complete disadvantage in such a fight. Primarily because Golarion would probably find a way to disrupt whatever means Earth has access to, to cross the vastness of space to Golarion. Earth has numbers...although to be honest I question the validity of the numbers. Golarion is supposed to be very similar to Earth. I've always personally considered the published numbers of people in cities to be too low.
Anyways, I give the edge to those with the literal active protection of gods.
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I've always personally considered the published numbers of people in cities to be too low.
I agree (but those numbers don't include plenty of intelligent species).
My calculations, considering that during the Middle Ages, the rapport between the urban population and the rural areas was 1:9, say that the Inner Sea region has 1/2 the population of Europe after the Black Death in an area that is 2x that of Europe.
Considering that Golarion culture and technology seem to be that of the late Renaissance, those are very low numbers.
I usually multiply the population of large settlements x5, the available cash by the same margin, but keep the "magic market" at the base value.
In the current campaign, I am adding "everyday" magic and magic items. That too would increase the population.
An interesting concept introduced by Gary Gigax in a different setting is that the use of magic reduces fertility, so barbarian tribes that use few or no spells or magic items reproduce faster, while civilized people that use a lot of magic reproduce at a slower rate.
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I've always personally considered the published numbers of people in cities to be too low.
I agree (but those numbers don't include plenty of intelligent species).
My calculations, considering that during the Middle Ages, the rapport between the urban population and the rural areas was 1:9, say that the Inner Sea region has 1/2 the population of Europe after the Black Death in an area that is 2x that of Europe.
Considering that Golarion culture and technology seem to be that of the late Renaissance, those are very low numbers.
I usually multiply the population of large settlements x5, the available cash by the same margin, but keep the "magic market" at the base value.
In the current campaign, I am adding "everyday" magic and magic items. That too would increase the population.
An interesting concept introduced by Gary Gigax in a different setting is that the use of magic reduces fertility, so barbarian tribes that use few or no spells or magic items reproduce faster, while civilized people that use a lot of magic reproduce at a slower rate.
Two things I feel are worth keeping in mind.
1) Even today education on average = lower birth rates. People feel they have more time, are focused on succeeding at their career and the like. I imagine Golarion is much the same except the cause is magic rather than technology. Better medical options, better food options, even weather control or raising the dead. For the wealthier and more powerful countries there probably would be a lower population level than you would get in the areas where life is short and brutal like the river kingdoms. Which leads to . . .
2) The places where life is short and brutal are very short and brutal demons, wendigo, eldrtich horrors from beyond the stars. One AP starts with an entire city being wiped out at least. In our world even the most powerful animals bears, elephants, rhinos had largely been equalized and eliminated as a threat by a comparable time period as fire arms are sufficient to take them down. Yes they may kill a person or two but man killers were very quickly hunted down and killed. Smaller predators just tended to avoid people. In Golarion that's not the case the most powerful animals are are a huge threat to even a trained and well equipped person. Take the megapithicus a gargantuan animal with a CR 8. Its capable of levelling a town unless you have the equivilent of a swat squad to take it down. Its not even the most powerful natural animal in Golarion much less magical beasts, oozes, aberrations and the like.
Golarion's population may seem low but you have both a lower birth rate in the more settled areas than you'd expect for the time period due to better resources combined with threats that are literally capable of leveling entire towns by themselves that can only be stopped by a small number of powerful people. And this is just looking at the equivilent of something like a wild Hippo charging in anger when you add in things that would view humanoids as cattle and not want their food source to be over producing or under producing quietly culling numbers in the background I can see why it wouldn't be as high as you'd expect.
Earth would utterly crush Golarion.
The only small advantage Golarion has is magic, which may not even work on Earth. So forget about an effective counterattack against Earth.
Earth has
* Immense standing armies, even in peace time.
* Advanced combined arms tactics and experience.
* Air superiority.
* Armoured vehicles and artillery.
* Satellite surveillance.
* Huge military alliances like NATO and a mechanism for unifying the globe through the UN.
* Highly educated professional soldiers.
* Nuclear weapons.
I don’t see gods as a factor since gods don’t represent individual worlds, but assuming they do and gods are actually real, then Earth’s dominant monotheistic religions have an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, infallible protector. Golarion has a host of relatively weak gods who are not in any way unified.
Also there could be unanticipated consequences to invading Earth. Imagine Golarion attacks Earth and accidentally pisses off Cthulhu who has been sleeping peacefully up until that point. Can Golarion survive a war against The Dark Tapestry?
Or Golarion might introduce magic to Earth and within days there are YouTube videos on how to cast ninth level wizard spells.
Or perhaps another way of thinking about it. The World Wound opened on Golarion because it could, if the Abyss tried to pull those shenanigans on Earth the whole area will be sterile in minutes.
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When comparing Earth and Golarion keep in mind that as of the most recent Golarion content Earth is in what, the 1920s? So nukes and air superiority aren't exactly a thing.
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If anyone wants to see what would happen if Earth meets Golarion then I suggest watching/reading Gate: So the JDF Fought. In that show the two sides are relatively amicable but you can clearly see how earth has the upper hand. From better soldiers, to better equipment, to better supplies.
The only time that fantasy has an advantage versus superior firepower is if they have an immunity or very high resistance to non-magical weapons. At which point its only a matter of time before earth learns how to do magical enchantments. Then some more time before they figure out a way to mass produce it. Because trust me, if there is one thing Earthlings have perfected is how to reverse engineer something and then how to make it easier.
I'm not so sure it would be that easy to mass produce. If your throwing real world nukes/etc into play then you need to take into account earth actively suppressing magic. You might get wizards or sorcerers in time but it will still take time to learn and develop them during which time a single high level wizard wishes for all nuclear devices to go off afterall they are unattended objects, a high level necromancer visits a few graveyards and sends out a horde of the undead, high level rogues and assasins target the researchers. Its basically a contest of quality vs quantity as earth even in the early 20th century had shifted from single highly skilled invidiuals to mass production. You don't really have a few thousand lvl 20 class level beings you have hundreds of thosuands of level 3 or 4 commoners with a firearm.
The gate is set with a modern army against a more medieval world, Golarion already has firearms and people trained to use them. At the same time earth is working out the basics of wizardry their improving those firearms to modern equivilents and you wind up with people like john wick slaughtering dozens of opponents or the equalizer.
For example look at what happens to earthlings who run up against Cthulu in lovecrafts books, supernatural killers in any horror movie, dragons in a number of scifi films. Modern tech is all well and good but that assault rifle doesn't help if you can't hit someone due to having a bullet protecting spell on them while they turn you into a frog and start hopping around the room on a pogo stick.
On top of which as said this is 1920's so you had not only older technology than most people think of when thinking of armies but it was around the time of the great depression as well and lots of people had been killed in a very recent war. If you push it forward to modern day then you also need to advance Golarion another 100 years of development including researching a crashed starship.
When comparing Earth and Golarion keep in mind that as of the most recent Golarion content Earth is in what, the 1920s? So nukes and air superiority aren't exactly a thing.
If it was very early in Earth’s history it would make a big difference. The Empire of Azlant would crush Stone Age Earth for instance. By the 1920s Earth has millions of Allied professional battle hardened soldiers off the back of World War One and a population of more than 2 billion people. Modern Golarion wouldn’t stand a chance, looking at the inner sea region, the old empires like Cheliax and Taldor are already failing without outside interference.
@ Senko,
The Wish spell is nowhere near that powerful.
Earth has a huge population compared with Golarion. Absalom has a population of three hundred thousand and it is considered the “centre of the world.” That is a tiny city compared to Earth’s major cities.
The Earth could sustain catastrophic losses for decades just based on population alone. Never mind the technological advantages Earth has. Technology builds on itself, it takes centuries to acquire advanced technology, there is no easy path to high technology. Magic by contrast is inherent, sorcerers can cast spells as a natural ability. It is far quicker to learn magic than master technology.
When you combine high technology with magic it is total cheese. Imagine factories mass producing synthetic diamond dust for example.
Yes but I don't think earth would learn magic as fast as your assuming. Not to mention its not going to be a unified front there will be people and even countries siding with Golarion. Just look at how long America took to join WW 1 and 2.
The US didn’t declare war immediately, but they chose the side of the Allies almost immediately and supported them logistically. And staying out of a war is completely different to turning traitor against the people of your home planet. No country would form an alliance with an alien planet, that is a pipe dream. Realistically the NATO alliance would lead and everyone else would fall into lockstep.
The Earth is far more unified than Golarion. We have global initiatives like the Olympics, the WTO and the United Nations. There is just nothing of that scale on Golarion.
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Yes but I don't think earth would learn magic as fast as your assuming. Not to mention its not going to be a unified front there will be people and even countries siding with Golarion. Just look at how long America took to join WW 1 and 2.The US didn’t declare war immediately, but they chose the side of the Allies almost immediately and supported them logistically. And staying out of a war is completely different to turning traitor against the people of your home planet. No country would form an alliance with an alien planet, that is a pipe dream. Realistically the NATO alliance would lead and everyone else would fall into lockstep.
The Earth is far more unified than Golarion. We have global initiatives like the Olympics, the WTO and the United Nations. There is just nothing of that scale on Golarion.
You really think post WW 1 some countries wouldn't side with an alien world that offers immortality, weather control, limb regrwoth, etc solely out of a "earth first" mindset? You have a much higher opinion of humans than I do.
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Golarnion hasn't mass-producing abilities, nor the population to use them or benefit from them, so it would have a few high levels combatants capable of killing hundreds of people, but not a large army with modern weapons.
Direct attack spells are woefully inadequate when fighting masses. They are, mostly, single-target or small-area attacks.
Indirect attacks, like Confusion or Contagion, would work way better, but, again, they are limited. Try touching a soldier to affect him with Contagion when there are hundreds of them firing. Confusing 10 soldiers will do very little when there are thousands of them in a battle.
WWI artillery bombardment can blindly hit areas 10 or more miles away. Your spellcaster can be invisible, but that will not help much if the whole area is shelled.
Some Earth nations could side with a Golarion invading forces if contacted and the offer is good enough. But the reverse is true too.
1920 aircraft will be at a disadvantage in an aerial dogfight with mages, they are faster but less maneuverable, and the effective range of the firearms they use is short. On the other hand, 1920 AA fire is relatively good when compared with spells.
AA guns or airplanes are relatively cheap when compared with a 5th level wizard that can fly a few minutes and cast 2 level 3 attack spells.
What people from Golarion will excel at is key target assassination, exactly what adventuring parties do.
BTW 1920=/=1929.
And last, look at the Troop template. I don't like it, but that is Paizo "official" power of a small unit of WWI troops.
You really think post WW 1 some countries wouldn't side with an alien world that offers immortality, weather control, limb regrwoth, etc solely out of a "earth first" mindset? You have a much higher opinion of humans than I do.Yes but I don't think earth would learn magic as fast as your assuming. Not to mention its not going to be a unified front there will be people and even countries siding with Golarion. Just look at how long America took to join WW 1 and 2.The US didn’t declare war immediately, but they chose the side of the Allies almost immediately and supported them logistically. And staying out of a war is completely different to turning traitor against the people of your home planet. No country would form an alliance with an alien planet, that is a pipe dream. Realistically the NATO alliance would lead and everyone else would fall into lockstep.
The Earth is far more unified than Golarion. We have global initiatives like the Olympics, the WTO and the United Nations. There is just nothing of that scale on Golarion.
No, unfortunately my opinion of humanity is not so generous. I think the major powers of Earth would do what they have historically done and exploit weaker nations. They would colonise Golarian and would renege on any deals made with the natives if they even made any in the first place. Earthlings will be suspicious and prejudiced about aliens, particularly when some of them literally look like monsters.
Offers of immortality, weather control etc. are unlikely to be believed because it won’t reconcile with how socially, culturally and technologically backwards the average person appears to be. But if Earth figures out the truth, that a tiny minority has access to these miracles those few powerful individuals may get special treatment. But I wouldn’t count on it.
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I also don’t see why it would take a long time to learn magic. The sorcerer class has the equal youngest possible starting age (16 years). Magic is innate, you can literally perform magic with zero training.
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I also don’t see why it would take a long time to learn magic. The sorcerer class has the equal youngest possible starting age (16 years). Magic is innate, you can literally perform magic with zero training.
Yes but Earth has systematically destroyed magical knowledge. There are almost no sorcerer's in Earth, Rasputing as I recall was trained by someone from Golarion. If you have no magic basis how do you find and train these zero level sorcerers?
I'm just saying Golarion would not be the pushover people seem to think. There are beings with the power to level towns, no one on earth has that same power in 1920.
I also don’t see why it would take a long time to learn magic. The sorcerer class has the equal youngest possible starting age (16 years). Magic is innate, you can literally perform magic with zero training.Yes but Earth has systematically destroyed magical knowledge. There are almost no sorcerer's in Earth, Rasputing as I recall was trained by someone from Golarion. If you have no magic basis how do you find and train these zero level sorcerers?
I'm just saying Golarion would not be the pushover people seem to think. There are beings with the power to level towns, no one on earth has that same power in 1920.
Wizards rely on book learning, but for sorcerers and some other classes magic is simply innate, they don’t need training.
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Wizards rely on book learning, but for sorcerers and some other classes magic is simply innate, they don’t need training.I also don’t see why it would take a long time to learn magic. The sorcerer class has the equal youngest possible starting age (16 years). Magic is innate, you can literally perform magic with zero training.Yes but Earth has systematically destroyed magical knowledge. There are almost no sorcerer's in Earth, Rasputing as I recall was trained by someone from Golarion. If you have no magic basis how do you find and train these zero level sorcerers?
I'm just saying Golarion would not be the pushover people seem to think. There are beings with the power to level towns, no one on earth has that same power in 1920.
In which case Earth in the AP's that hit it would have enough magic for it to be visible they don't rather than the occasional odd aberration. Either they need some training to use magic (Harry Potter is an example of this) or there are no sorcerer's on earth.
An interesting concept introduced by Gary Gigax in a different setting is that the use of magic reduces fertility, so barbarian tribes that use few or no spells or magic items reproduce faster, while civilized people that use a lot of magic reproduce at a slower rate.
There's something to that in the sense that in the modern world countries with the "best" health care and support systems for their population also tend to have lower birth rates compared to countries with less ability to access modern infrastructure and resources. Take a look at this map.
Technically it's usually stated that wealthier countries have lower birth rates, but wealthier countries also tend to have better access to infrastructure like hospitals with modern health care.
If we liken magic to stronger economies and "modern" infrastructure and medicine then it seems likely that less developed places will have higher birth rates like barbarian tribes compared to someplace like Absalom.
I did homebrew-include earth in wotr, with an earth exclave in the midnight isles. They were yeeted to the Abyss when fighting become so furious that a portal opened, they were sucked in, fought its way out of Koschtchies realm and was granted "refuge" in he midnight isles, where they act as Mercenaries.
Moneyquote: Eh, I have been at Ossowiecz/Ypres/Paschendaele/Kolubara/Gallipoli/Verdun , this Alyushinyrra holds no horrors for me. It is rather nice even.
Earth was a concern for several demonlords, as some thought Earth could win a "straight fight" against some Abyssal realms on the defense, but not invade one with logistics being its achilles heel, for now at least, but what if the earthers would get access to teleportation magic?
Oh, concerning earth specifically, most people think it refers to the elemental plane of earth. I mean, a population must be really noncreative to call its plane earth right?
I think one thing that needs to be taken into account when assessing a conflict between Earth and Golarion is means of access. I'm assuming you have a portal that is linking the two worlds. Something for maybe a dozen people at a time to go through at most. Something that most military vehicles wouldn't fit through. No ships. No airplanes.
To me the battle is Earth starts invading Golarion (for completely unknowable reasons) and a high level adventuring team shows up and figures out how to get rid of the portal.
Winning isn't always about completely eliminating your enemy's supply of soldiers.
Edit: Well, it is but that doesn't mean killing them. Sometimes it means closing the magic portal allowing passage between your two worlds.
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I'm just saying Golarion would not be the pushover people seem to think. There are beings with the power to level towns, no one on earth has that same power in 1920.
Can you cite what spells you would use to "level towns"?
Earthquake, one of the best for that, covers an 80' spread. An area less than 50 meters in diameter. And it is an 8th-level spell.
Tsunamit is even better, but it is a 9th-level spell.
I don't recall low-level spells capable of doing widespread devastation.
Sure, a 17th-level caster will do a lot of damage, as long as he has available spells. Then he will start faltering. A war against Earth armies will not be made by 20 minutes adventuring days and then rest.
Earth armies will suffer a lot in asymmetric warfare, but it will be asymmetric warfare.
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I think one thing that needs to be taken into account when assessing a conflict between Earth and Golarion is means of access. I'm assuming you have a portal that is linking the two worlds. Something for maybe a dozen people at a time to go through at most. Something that most military vehicles wouldn't fit through. No ships. No airplanes.
To me the battle is Earth starts invading Golarion (for completely unknowable reasons) and a high level adventuring team shows up and figures out how to get rid of the portal.
Winning isn't always about completely eliminating your enemy's supply of soldiers.
Edit: Well, it is but that doesn't mean killing them. Sometimes it means closing the magic portal allowing passage between your two worlds.
That is what adventurers do and what Golaronians will be the best at doing.
In that scenario, they will win even against Earth's best troops.Why Earth will invade? Besides the usual stupid imperialistic reasons (Why Italy invaded Somalia? It was a big expense with very little return.), Golarion seems to have a lot of gold when compared to Earth, plenty of unknown metals, spices, animals, and other resources (magic included). All "good" reasons to want to get a piece of it, and in 1920 colonialism was in its declining phase, but there was still a strong push to expand into new territories and exploit them.
Give 1920 Italy or Japan a way to reach Golarion and they will try to see pieces of it to be "on par" with other colonialist nations. Other nations probably will try a more commercial approach to acquire pieces of Golarion.
I think one thing that needs to be taken into account when assessing a conflict between Earth and Golarion is means of access. I'm assuming you have a portal that is linking the two worlds. Something for maybe a dozen people at a time to go through at most. Something that most military vehicles wouldn't fit through. No ships. No airplanes.
To me the battle is Earth starts invading Golarion (for completely unknowable reasons) and a high level adventuring team shows up and figures out how to get rid of the portal.
Winning isn't always about completely eliminating your enemy's supply of soldiers.
Edit: Well, it is but that doesn't mean killing them. Sometimes it means closing the magic portal allowing passage between your two worlds.
That is what adventurers do and what Golaronians will be the best at doing.
In that scenario, they will win even against Earth's best troops.Why Earth will invade? Besides the usual stupid imperialistic reasons (Why Italy invaded Somalia? It was a big expense with very little return.), Golarion seems to have a lot of gold when compared to Earth, plenty of unknown metals, spices, animals, and other resources (magic included). All "good" reasons to want to get a piece of it, and in 1920 colonialism was in its declining phase, but there was still a strong push to expand into new territories and exploit them.
Give 1920 Italy or Japan a way to reach Golarion and they will try to see pieces of it to be "on par" with other colonialist nations. Other nations probably will try a more commercial approach to acquire pieces of Golarion.
I mean, don't focus on the why. The main point of my post is to say that I feel a defender has a strong advantage because I'm envisioning very limited means of travel from one plane to another. Barring the invaders from using tanks, planes, air craft or anything much bigger than a few average persons wide. And possibly only one of these portals. It becomes a huge chokepoint.
I don’t think that earth will produce a lot of sorcerers for one reason. A Sorcerer’s magic is something they are born with or acquire from exposure to powerful magic events that cause later generations to develop bloodlines. No one who is not born with the capability to become a sorcerer can become one. The most common reason for a sorcerer to be born is because one of their ancestors was a magical creature. As far as I know there are not a lot of magical creatures on earth. Once contact has been established between the two worlds and the people of earth are exposed to magic the next generation might start to develop sorcerers, but it will be a while before they will be old enough to actually be of any use.
The most effective spells are not going to be combat spells they are going to be enchantment and divination spells. The armies of earth are not going to be that effective if their leaders are under being controlled by magic. Spells like divination and commune will give information on any plans the enemy has, and earth has no way to defend against it. All a wizard or sorcerer needs to do is to dominate a leader of a nuclear power and force them to nuke an enemy and World War 3 starts.
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Considering Golarion-universe version of Earth:
I would say that, at least in the Western Hemisphere, witch hunts and the Inquisition would have eliminated most sorcerer bloodlines. The Eastern Hemisphere probably would have more of them. The few that remain in the Western Hemisphere will generally hide their power (but in the XIX and XX centuries there have been groups interested in magic).
Saints and other religious figures will be divine spellcasters, but most clergy have focused on the mundane side of work, so they are experts.
Note that Rasputin is an Oracle (from what I gathered playing Rasputin must die), so he wasn't "taught" his magic.
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Regarding the original question, I would say that is not something that will be known "casually". To know about Earth you have to have researched information about a related topic, like "From where Baba Yaga and her daughter originally come?"
Finding the answers to that question by researching the topic in libraries or with spellcasting will be very hard, in the DC 50 range.
Access to more direct methods, like analyzing an item coming from Earth or searching for information on one will be slightly easier, but still in the 40-45 DC difficulty.
Essentially the question wouldn't be "How hard is it to know about Earth?" as it is equivalent to asking "How hard is it to know about Pandora (the Avatar film planet)?" before the film was made. You have to "ask" a question that would lead to getting the reply "Earth".
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I think one thing that needs to be taken into account when assessing a conflict between Earth and Golarion is means of access. I'm assuming you have a portal that is linking the two worlds. Something for maybe a dozen people at a time to go through at most. Something that most military vehicles wouldn't fit through. No ships. No airplanes.
To me the battle is Earth starts invading Golarion (for completely unknowable reasons) and a high level adventuring team shows up and figures out how to get rid of the portal.
Winning isn't always about completely eliminating your enemy's supply of soldiers.
Edit: Well, it is but that doesn't mean killing them. Sometimes it means closing the magic portal allowing passage between your two worlds.
What high level adventuring team?
I don’t recall a high level adventuring team turning up to stop Baba Yaga from entering Golarian and establishing Irrisen.
The impression I get of Golarian is a world in decline. Once mighty empires like Azlant are long gone and any heroic adventurers that exist are tied up dealing with local crises.
I'm pretty sure a hypothetical war between Earth and Golarion would be a hugely unproductive stalemate, since both entities can make "the spot the portal is" hugely hazardous to anything that steps through the portal.
Either party is going to benefit much more from "just trading for things that aren't available locally with things that aren't available over there" which is apparently what is going on later on down the line on the Golarion timeline.
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Either party is going to benefit much more from "just trading for things that aren't available locally with things that aren't available over there" which is apparently what is going on later on down the line on the Golarion timeline.
De Beers would be very happy. Golarion diamonds seem to be priced like in Medieval times in Europe, a rarity coming from distant lands, while in XX century Earth they were and are "relatively" common. 1920 is around the start of De Beers' push to make diamond rings the engagement rings, but Golarion is a market that will consume diamonds constantly for several spells, in particular Restoration.
Earth cuts are more advanced, so see same rough diamond will be worth more thanks to better cuts.All things considered, it will be a seller's market for them, at a time when they controlled something like 90% of Earth production.
I'm pretty sure a hypothetical war between Earth and Golarion would be a hugely unproductive stalemate, since both entities can make "the spot the portal is" hugely hazardous to anything that steps through the portal.
Either party is going to benefit much more from "just trading for things that aren't available locally with things that aren't available over there" which is apparently what is going on later on down the line on the Golarion timeline.
Makes sense to me.
It seems far more likely that initial contact will be between explorers, then traders, then migration. Conquest by warfare would probably never happen. The population imbalance is so huge and Golarian has so much internal strife they can’t feasibly conquer Earth and would be crushed if they tried.
More likely the migration of people from Earth to Golarian (small by Earth standards, but huge by Golarian standards) would eventually “colonise” the place. Then over time the Golarian colonials would become independent again as they became more prosperous. I’m thinking a situation similar to the European colonisation of Australia.
What high level adventuring team?
I don’t recall a high level adventuring team turning up to stop Baba Yaga from entering Golarian and establishing Irrisen.
The impression I get of Golarian is a world in decline. Once mighty empires like Azlant are long gone and any heroic adventurers that exist are tied up dealing with local crises.
You do realize Baba Yaga is on the level of gods right? She's only not a deity because she doesn't want to be. And she also invaded with inhabitants of Golarion, not Earth.
I don't agree at all that Golarion is a world in decline. Golarion we know goes on to disappear in Starfinder, but Absalom remains and shows us what the pinnacle of Golarion had become.
What high level adventuring team?
I don’t recall a high level adventuring team turning up to stop Baba Yaga from entering Golarian and establishing Irrisen.
The impression I get of Golarian is a world in decline. Once mighty empires like Azlant are long gone and any heroic adventurers that exist are tied up dealing with local crises.
You do realize Baba Yaga is on the level of gods right? She's only not a deity because she doesn't want to be. And she also invaded with inhabitants of Golarion, not Earth.
I don't agree at all that Golarion is a world in decline. Golarion we know goes on to disappear in Starfinder, but Absalom remains and shows us what the pinnacle of Golarion had become.
Let me be more clear.
What we know, for sure, is that an ordinary peasant girl from Earth, meets a Norn, learns how to be a witch, adopts the name Baba Yaga, travels to Golarian founds a new kingdom and becomes a virtual goddess.
This account sounds suspiciously like Earthlings can do whatever they like in Golarian, nobody will stop them. This is a clear counter example to the baseless assertion that a team of high level adventures will show up to thwart the plans of Earthling invaders.
As for Golarian not being in decline. The current age is the age of lost omens which literally began with the god of humanity dying and is characterised by all the strife that followed from that calamity.