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That's actually how I think it would be best represented as well.
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Agreed but also keep in mind that that doesn't even TOUCH on instances where the Avatar State is invoked because even when it's been used in an amateurish way it literally provides them with at LEAST as much strength and power as high-level Kaiju.
With the Avatar State invoked I can't see any reason at all why you wouldn't literally just provide Legendary in all Attacks, Defenses, Saves, and Perceptions along with providing every single Feat for all Elements that they've unlocked, providing permanent Haste, and reducing the Action Cost for all of their Abilities by 1 (minimum 1 Action cost). The scale of power available in the Avatar State is completely absurd to the point where, for all intents and purposes, you're channeling the power of the God of life and light as well as wielding the knowledge and strength of hundreds of incarnations of your former self as a perpetually reincarnating demi-god.
Though, it is worth mentioning that Metal and Wood, strictly speaking, are represented as special talents of Earth and Water in that universe instead of being their own thing so I can't really suggest that when building them that you should focus very heavily on either of those.
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Remember, Bumi, a single Legendary Earthbender is capable of leveling an entire city all by themself after being locked up in a coffin with barely the ability to breathe or eat for months. A motivated Avatar going full-blue could do so without batting an eye. With the assistance of the spirit of the Ocean, a fleet of hundreds of Battleships and Cruisers was demolished by a tsunami wave that is was at least 300 ft tall and a mile wide.
Remember, ATLA is a kid's show and you have to view it through that lens, at every opportunity the showrunners were encouraged to downplay the impact of violence, death, and adult themes despite it being absolutely saturated in them. Kyoki SPLIT a segment of the planet's tectonic plates to the mantle and created a whole new island. Aang and Korra are children who at just about every point in time that they are under their own control and not consumed by rage when using the Avatar State (or literally fighting another God...) very much holding back.
The scale of power that is wielded by the Avatar in the Avatar state is just functionally not within the scope of levels 1 to 20 for PF2. If a game were run where a player in it is the Avatar I very much think Avatar State events are probably a "hand over your character sheet" moment and handled with narrative collaboration between the GM and player.
The meta arguments will be about specific builds and roles. Like should a mono fire kineticist grab molten wire or lava leap at 8th level.
Even that's a matter of underlying build. Lava Leap is overflow. Molten Wire is not... so it starts to matter if you're running overflow-heavy or aura-heavy.
I think Lava Leap makes the most sense on an actual Earth/Fire kineticist. Since you can then grab the earth armor impulse to gain heavy armor, then when you lava leap into danger you'll have the same AC as a fighter in heavy armor with their shield raised (except for levels 17 and 18) which is generally "enough armor to survive being in danger."
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The avatar state is just the player making liberal use of all the hero points they've been saving up all session. :P
Even that's a matter of underlying build. Lava Leap is overflow. Molten Wire is not... so it starts to matter if you're running overflow-heavy or aura-heavy.
Yeah, the stance/overflow gameplay is a real headache. There's a lot of great overflow abilities, but also some really great stances and using the former while keeping the latter on at a pace that they matter is not that easy. Most reactions you can get also are overflow abilities and the few that are not (essentially Air Cushion, Consume Power and Deflecting Wave) are low-level abilities, so that you are unlikely to take them when you finally fork into that element at higher levels, due to how Reflow Elements works.
Although I just realized, if you are playing a human you can keep Natural Ambition back as an ancestry feat and when you fork into water take it (since ancestry feats come up at the same level as forking the path), then get Deflecting Wave. Alright, that's pretty cool. Although it kinda locks you a bit more into playing a human, since the Kineticist is so class feat hungry. I really want that class specific reaction, since otherwise the Kineticist kinda is losing out on that part of the action economy.
Although I just realized, if you are playing a human you can keep Natural Ambition back as an ancestry feat and when you fork into water take it (since ancestry feats come up at the same level as forking the path), then get Deflecting Wave. Alright, that's pretty cool. Although it kinda locks you a bit more into playing a human, since the Kineticist is so class feat hungry. I really want that class specific reaction, since otherwise the Kineticist kinda is losing out on that part of the action economy.
Also works for halflings with their level 5 feat... or anyone else who wants to adopted ancestry into human.
You can also start with two elements, and add the impulse junction later. Like, your avatar's journey doesn't need to be exactly the same as Aang or Korra's, you know?
Although I just realized, if you are playing a human you can keep Natural Ambition back as an ancestry feat and when you fork into water take it (since ancestry feats come up at the same level as forking the path), then get Deflecting Wave. Alright, that's pretty cool. Although it kinda locks you a bit more into playing a human, since the Kineticist is so class feat hungry. I really want that class specific reaction, since otherwise the Kineticist kinda is losing out on that part of the action economy.Also works for halflings with their level 5 feat... or anyone else who wants to adopted ancestry into human.
You can also start with two elements, and add the impulse junction later. Like, your avatar's journey doesn't need to be exactly the same as Aang or Korra's, you know?
Sure, I'm trying out builds now that Pathbuilder also has updated. Kinda want to take a Kineticist into PFS soon. :)
The correct order to gather elements is: earth, wind, then fire. That way, the winds of your kinetic aura will generate a very distinctive noise:
Ba-dee-ya (dee-ya, dee-ya)
Ba-dee-ya (dee-ya, dee-ya)
Ba-dee-ya (dee-ya, dee-ya)
Ugh, it's kinda coming down to a choice for PFS between starting out as an Airkineticist, Firekineticist or dual gate Air-/Firekineticist. ^^
Since games beyond level 6 seem to be rare here in Hamburg, I probably should go for the style which has the best low-level benefits. Hard choice. ^^
Remember, Bumi, a single Legendary Earthbender is capable of leveling an entire city all by themself after being locked up in a coffin with barely the ability to breathe or eat for months. A motivated Avatar going full-blue could do so without batting an eye. With the assistance of the spirit of the Ocean, a fleet of hundreds of Battleships and Cruisers was demolished by a tsunami wave that is was at least 300 ft tall and a mile wide.
Remember, ATLA is a kid's show and you have to view it through that lens, at every opportunity the showrunners were encouraged to downplay the impact of violence, death, and adult themes despite it being absolutely saturated in them. Kyoki SPLIT a segment of the planet's tectonic plates to the mantle and created a whole new island. Aang and Korra are children who at just about every point in time that they are under their own control and not consumed by rage when using the Avatar State (or literally fighting another God...) very much holding back.
The scale of power that is wielded by the Avatar in the Avatar state is just functionally not within the scope of levels 1 to 20 for PF2. If a game were run where a player in it is the Avatar I very much think Avatar State events are probably a "hand over your character sheet" moment and handled with narrative collaboration between the GM and player.
There is two big exaggeration here:
1.Bumi did not level the city but merely capture it he did some damage to city but its far from leveling2.Aang was only capable of that feat when he merge his avatar spirit with spirit the ocean that is not what he is capable of doing by himself even in avatar state
Ugh, it's kinda coming down to a choice for PFS between starting out as an Airkineticist, Firekineticist or dual gate Air-/Firekineticist. ^^
Since games beyond level 6 seem to be rare here in Hamburg, I probably should go for the style which has the best low-level benefits. Hard choice. ^^
For low-level benefits applicable to PFS, I'd probably say pure fire. The impulse junction is useful immediately, you get the aura at 5, and damage is always a good thing. On the flip side, the strengths of the Air kineticist are in fiddly little utility stuff and alternate ways to achieve success... and PFS isn't always great at modeling those.
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I think Aang following the show order makes a lot of sense.
Dual Gate Air/Water
-This just gives amazing support with Four Winds and Ocean's Balm
Level 5 Fork the Path to Earth
- Can pick any support ability or Tremor is a solid damage overflow.
Level 9 Fork the Path to Fire
- Solar Detonation is great against mobs.
- Sadly, fire really loses out in the build because you really want Fire Impulse Junction, but it will be a nice addition.
The character would start as a great support and by higher level deal respectable damage.
Level 13 and 17 you can pick up metal/wood. He didn't get these in the show but it makes since for PF2.
For PFS early levels I feel single gate Kineticist feels better though from a mechanical perspective because the early junction feels great. Dual Gate for me really picks up by 9 though when you get to combo 2 junctions and gets better from there.
I decided to skip playing Aang in my campaign though. I just love the playstyle of dual gate too much. Just fits my playstyle better. I really enjoy the versatility of 2+ elements to mono elements long term.
It has been over a month, and almost 70 posts, and no one has mentioned Avatar.
I'm not sure if I should be impressed or disappointed.