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I did not find a suitable topic, despite the fact that most of the rest of the regions of the world are discussed. Plus, until recently, I missed the information that the Tian-Xa book is in production. At the same time, it seems to me that a large book on the states of Kasmaron can be no less interesting than Golarion's East Asia.
Thinking about what is known about the region, I see some good opportunities for how the setting could be expanded and developed.
1. Padishah-Empire of Kelesh. I consider it a monstrous omission that there is practically no information about this state, despite the fact that Kelesh is the largest and perhaps even the most powerful empire of Golarion at the present time. That being said, what I would like to point out is that the Islamic world in real life presents many different cultural and historical patterns that could be reproduced in the Empire of Kelesh, which is divided among the satrapies.
Vassal empires are coastal city-states that send their expeditions across the seas of the whole world, similar to the position of Phoenicia in the Persian Empire. A great city in the valley of two rivers, one of the largest cities in the world, like Baghdad. A prosperous intermountain valley through which caravans regularly pass, transferring goods from one end of the empire to the other, similar to the Ferghana Valley.
These are all very different places with different cultures.
2. Vudra. Probably the main opponent for the Padishah-Empire of Kelesh, which again can provide many interesting features, although here I have to admit - I myself do not understand Indian history well enough to make suitable comparisons.
3. Iobaria. This is a region that I honestly would like to see redesigned for a number of reasons. The main one - I personally think that Irrisen copes with the Slavic atmosphere quite badly. In fact, I would say that Irrisen is largely modified to fit the classic fantasy, leaving only the eternal winter and some of the mythological characters. However, in reality, Slavic folklore is quite original and interesting. Polabsky Slavs (historical inhabitants of northern Poland) had almost unique multi-faced idols. Bulgaria from its early history was more like Rohan from The Lord of the Rings. In Russian epics, strong female characters are a normal thing, for example, Nastasya Korolevichna, Vasilisa Mikulishna or Marya Morevna. I was really impressed with how Mwangi's Expanse was implemented, and I believe that Paizo can portray Slavic mythology well as well.
4. Iblydos, which again can be well worked out, although I'm sure there are enough here who know Hellenistic mythology better than I do.
5. The Grass Sea, as the last region. At the same time, I would say that for me personally it would be regrettable to see this region as a kind of Mongolia. I mean, historically, the steppes of Eurasia were not only Mongols. There were many other nomads who formed their own states and cultures. Scythians and Sarmatians from ancient times. Ancestors of historical Hungarians who were once brutal raiders. Jews of the Khazar Khaganate. Perhaps even someone similar to the Goths, since the Goths created states in the steppe lands during their migrations.
I just want to raise this topic, since the territories of Eurasia gave rise to many diverse cultures, however, the same nomads of the Eurasian steppes are often equated with the Mongols.
What exactly do you think about the prospects of the region?
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Funny you should mention Rohan, since the biggest vibe I get from Iobaria is post-Roman Britain - you have vaguely-Celtic Kellds and vaguely-Germanic Ulfen living in a thickly wooded former empire with scattered stone buildings, the "cunning work of giants," druids worshipping one-eyed gods and scattered warlords trying to carve out power in a collapsed nation-state among the works of a greater fallen empire. The closest analogue I could think of to a real-world place is the period where the Saxons moved into Britannia after the Roman Legions left, with Celtic kingdoms falling to Saxon rulers until only Cornwall, Wales and Strathclyde were left along with Pictish Caledonia and the seven English kingdoms. Though in this case, it would be the reverse - Kellids pushed into exodus from the Worldwound pushing back the original Ulfen inhabitants. You could easily tell a story paralleling the rise of Wessex until it became England in Iobaria, and with the Ulfen of the Lands of the Linnorm Kings comfortably filling the Viking trope niche, it would be nice to have something a little more Old English.
Otherwise, I think the problem with a Casmaron setting guide is that the Padishah Empire and Vudra each are varied and interesting enough that you could do books just about them, and delving into them might leave smaller but nevertheless interesting placed like Iobaria, Iblydos or Kaladay feeling like afterthoughts.
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In fact, I look at Iobaria as at Ancient Rus'. The territory, which is controlled by a conglomerate of different tribes with a common origin, where the Vikings came and created a single state. Actually, in my opinion, this is exactly what Iobaria refers to, given the role of the Ulfen in the society of Iobaria.
And about the comparison with Rohan. I do this not by chance, since early Bulgaria was formed after the Turkic tribes came to the Balkans. They were excellent horsemens, so the comparison with Rohan seemed very appropriate to me.
And finally, yes, Casmaron as a whole is a potential source of a wide variety of stories, which, unfortunately, are very poorly developed.
And I'm really sorry that such potential is being wasted. Iobaria, for example, could make room for a good depiction of Slavic folklore, rather than the one in Reign of Winter (the Rasputin book is very, very hard to take seriously). But many characters of Slavic folklore have become an integral part of fantasy. The most classic lich in world culture is the Slavic Koschey the Immortal, given that he even had his own phylactery.
Yes Koshci the deathless was basically the proto llich
Also
I think it makes more sense to do books on individual "regions" within Casmaron, for two reasons. One is that Casmaron is huge. Kelesh and Vudra could easily receive a book all to themselves. The article on Vudra in AP158 only supports this—there isn't one nation of Vudra or Vudrani ethnicity, there are multiple ethnic groups within Vudra and 9 separate regions. They're known as the Impossible Kingdoms, plural. (Not to be confused with the Impossible Lands.) This makes sense considering that the regions Kelesh and Vudra are based on in the real world were also very diverse and covered a much wider area than Europe. A book covering all of Casmaron would sacrifice depth for breadth.
Another reason is that different parts of Casmaron have different themes, and a person who purchases a book on Casmaron may really be looking for one specific area rather than the continent as a whole. That may seem like it'd be true of other settings, but it's less true of Tian Xia, Arcadia, or Southern Garund in comparison. The obvious thing is that a GM might just want to focus on Kelesh, or Vudra, or Iblydos, and not be all that interested in other parts of Casmaron, but it's not just about what a region's inspiration is. Many parts of Casmaron are perfect if a GM is looking to run a "Points of Light" game where civilization is scattered and kingdoms are ruined, with Iobaria and Ninshabur both being great settings for that. Kelesh and Vudra don't scratch that itch at all.
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I think a continent book is unlikely given the current level of inertia behind it, and agree that it would likely do a disservice to the variety of cultures in play due to sheet volume. Kelesh’s satrapies, the islands of Iblydos, and the mahajanapadas of Vudra are all essentially mini-settings in their own right, and I think any/each could carry a standalone Lost Omens book.
What also feels possible to me is, say, a book shaped like Guns & Gears… but for Mythic, with a meaty setting chapter on places like Iblydos, Vudra, or the god-touched parts of Kelesh.
Casmaron would be *lovely* to have, but without even a Golden Road book on the horizon, I don’t expect it any time soon.
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Tropkagar wrote: The Grass Sea, as the last region. At the same time, I would say that for me personally it would be regrettable to see this region as a kind of Mongolia. I mean, historically, the steppes of Eurasia were not only Mongols. There were many other nomads who formed their own states and cultures. Scythians and Sarmatians from ancient times. Ancestors of historical Hungarians who were once brutal raiders. Jews of the Khazar Khaganate. Perhaps even someone similar to the Goths, since the Goths created states in the steppe lands during their migrations. Agreed, especially since the Tian-La are already coded as Mongol, though I'd like to note that the presence of Judaism among the Khazars has often been exaggerated—it was a portion of the elite who converted to Judaism, not the majority of the population, though of course there were Jewish people in that area previously.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tropkagar wrote: I did not find a suitable topic, despite the fact that most of the rest of the regions of the world are discussed. That's because I'm contrarian and named it differently x'D Bit surprised ye didn't find it by searching for Casmaron though
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CorvusMask wrote: Tropkagar wrote: I did not find a suitable topic, despite the fact that most of the rest of the regions of the world are discussed. That's because I'm contrarian and named it differently x'D Bit surprised ye didn't find it by searching for Casmaron though I just watch for What do you want from a Lost Omens threads... )))
However, for the rest, I want to note that I would still like a full-fledged book on the continent, since otherwise the chances of seeing information on the northern Kasmaron are quite small ... It is my dream to see a good implementation of Slavic folklore in the form of Iobaria, but this topic is not in demand enough the public so that we can see a whole book about Iobaria.
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To reiterate since it may have been lost in the wall of text I posted, I think we should get a book on northern Casmaron as a whole. Right now the area is united thematically by being the location of several ruined kingdoms, which scratches an itch that Golarion otherwise doesn't. Put Iobaria, Kakkari, and Ninshabur in the same book, throw in Kaladay due to its geographic proximity to the other locations, make a map, and sell it as a setting for players that are looking for a game where settlements are scattered and the bulk of the land is wilderness. I don't know about you, but I'd eat that up, and I can't say the same for the rest of Casmaron. It's as doable as a book on Kelesh and Vudra, although it would likely be saved for last.
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GM_3826 wrote: To reiterate since it may have been lost in the wall of text I posted, I think we should get a book on northern Casmaron as a whole. Right now the area is united thematically by being the location of several ruined kingdoms, which scratches an itch that Golarion otherwise doesn't. Put Iobaria, Kakkari, and Ninshabur in the same book, throw in Kaladay due to its geographic proximity to the other locations, make a map, and sell it as a setting for players that are looking for a game where settlements are scattered and the bulk of the land is wilderness. I don't know about you, but I'd eat that up, and I can't say the same for the rest of Casmaron. It's as doable as a book on Kelesh and Vudra, although it would likely be saved for last. Oh, I would be perfectly happy to see a book like this. I just find it a bit unlikely. I agree that Casmaron has enough content for such a book, but I'm afraid that hardly anyone will dare to sell three or even four books even on such a saturated continent (although I would be an absolute fan of such an idea and would be happy to see , for example, a detailed description of each satrapy of the Padishah-Empire of Kelesh).
On second thought, if Kaladay is located on the northeastern edge of the Castrovin Sea, while Kakkari is on the southwestern edge, you may not be able to incorporate it into the same map without including Kelesh to the south. So since Kaladay is somewhat different thematically from Iobaria, Kakkari, and Ninshabur, it would be just those 3, which I still think would make for a great book.
Tropkagar wrote: Oh, I would be perfectly happy to see a book like this. I just find it a bit unlikely. I agree that Casmaron has enough content for such a book, but I'm afraid that hardly anyone will dare to sell three or even four books even on such a saturated continent (although I would be an absolute fan of such an idea and would be happy to see , for example, a detailed description of each satrapy of the Padishah-Empire of Kelesh). I'm looking at it from a bit of a different perspective, is the thing. "There's too much Casmaron content!" isn't really the right complaint if they're marketing it as a book that appeals to a specific kind of fantasy, rather than to those looking for stories inspired by a particular culture. Still, I recognize that this wouldn't be surprising to hear. I'm holding my breath.
I will say: Howl of the Wild is adding both Centaurs and Minotaurs as playable Ancestries, and both of those peoples are strongly linked with Casmaron; both are found in Iblydos, while Kingmaker prominently features Iobarian centaurs and 2e has mentioned holy Vudran Minotaur-priests.
Given how intentionally-additive PF2 releases are (Nagaji in LO:IL sets up a later visit to Tian Xia, for instance), there’s a crumb of hope there.
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GM_3826 wrote: To reiterate since it may have been lost in the wall of text I posted, I think we should get a book on northern Casmaron as a whole. Right now the area is united thematically by being the location of several ruined kingdoms, which scratches an itch that Golarion otherwise doesn't. Put Iobaria, Kakkari, and Ninshabur in the same book, throw in Kaladay due to its geographic proximity to the other locations, make a map, and sell it as a setting for players that are looking for a game where settlements are scattered and the bulk of the land is wilderness. I don't know about you, but I'd eat that up, and I can't say the same for the rest of Casmaron. It's as doable as a book on Kelesh and Vudra, although it would likely be saved for last. I wonder if it's worth splitting from Casmaron entirely. Do an "Empires of Casmaron," with major articles on Kelesh, Vudra, Karazh, Kaladay and Iblydos, and then do a separate "Fallen Kingdoms" where you get gazetteers on the Windswept Wastes (Ninshabur, Yenchabur and Kaskkari), northern Casmaron (Iobaria and the fallen Koloran Empire) and then add fallen empires from across the world, like Jistka, Ancient Osirion, the Shory, Taumata from Tian-Xia, Ancient Razatlan (of which modern Razatlan in Arcadia is just a fraction), etc. Kinda like a rebooted "Lost Kingdoms" from 1e.
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keftiu wrote: I will say: Howl of the Wild is adding both Centaurs and Minotaurs as playable Ancestries, and both of those peoples are strongly linked with Casmaron; both are found in Iblydos, while Kingmaker prominently features Iobarian centaurs and 2e has mentioned holy Vudran Minotaur-priests.
Given how intentionally-additive PF2 releases are (Nagaji in LO:IL sets up a later visit to Tian Xia, for instance), there’s a crumb of hope there.
we won't get any kind of deep dive into Ibyldos until they are ready to do mythic I remember one of my early mythic threads they specifically mentioned that mythic rules & Ibyldos are linked too tightly because it's the land of hero/demigods in which case GIVE ME IBYLDOS paizo please !
Didn’t we go here in Strange Aeons??
Love that AP.
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I'd like to get a lot more info on the Pit of Gormuz and Ninshabar
If I were to create a book like this, I would probably split off Vudra, since it is practically its own greater realm (I mean India itself is considered a subcontinent), and give it is own book. I still think Kelesh and everything else could be covered in a single book, as I see them having a lot of inter-relationships and drawing from some common lore elements from the real world.
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I went back and looked at Aquatic Adventures for reasons, and I really hope that a Casmaron book does something interesting with the canonical Fantasy El Niño and La Niña system that the Embaral Ocean apparently has. As someone who lives in a climate very strongly affected by those currents IRL, seeing Casmaron deal with the flood and storm or fire and drought years would make for interesting climate and environment worldbuilding.
Myth-Speaker #3 apparently comes with "a gazetteer of the lands surrounding Iblydos," which is quite exciting!
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