Tropkagar's page

Yes, if we really return to you discussions, then my opinion about the region.

Cheliax: I think many here have already decided that I am a fan of this state. Actually this is not true. It's just that I think that even the evil factions should be developed as much as possible so that the characters' motives are clear. So yes, I want to know more about Cheliax. After all, the state can provide many archetypes that may not be evil and still make sense as servants of the crown. For example, the classic archetype of a patriot who does not care about the person on the throne, but he will defend states until his death. And yes, I really think that half of the book about this region should be focused on this particular state, given how much it is larger than all its neighbors.

Isger: on the one hand, the state got its details... on the other hand, I'm still not sure what role they can play in the plot besides a bargaining chip between Andoran and Cheliax (if a war between factions occurs, then I would doubt that the end of the war will be the destruction of one of the states.Most likely, Isger will simply change the owner).

Nidal: Hmm... nation is interesting in my opinion, but it's hard for me to imagine a global history in their performance. They are too isolationist for any large-scale actions. And the overthrow of Zon-Kuthon's power will probably require too large-scale changes in the setting.

Ravounel: I like the state in its current state of legal nightmare where they should be trying to make reforms based on the Cheliax legislation.

** spoiler omitted **

The question I would like to ask, by the way. Thing is, one of my favorite things about the AP for the first edition that I saw was the fact that it had large enough articles to continue the campaign with plot hooks for future adventures. I was rather disappointed that this is not the case in the second edition, and many APs don't have such sections. Is there a similar section here? It's just that I would be glad when I heard that there is a fairly large article in the Gatewalkers. Or just announcements for future campaigns?

Well, given that there is an official representative of Paizo... what are the plans for such content?

If we do get an Andoran/Cheliax war, even though that would be fantastically ill-advised given the current situation, I hope that the Paizo writers would not expect us to want to fight on the side of the literal fascistic devil-worshippers.

I guess after such a statement, there is nothing left for me but to urgently get rid of my posters with the inscriptions "All Hail Trune" and "Cheliax Forever". )))

After all, there is another realistic option in the issue of this war. Osirion vs Quadira.

If you're aware, then you probably shouldn't be holding out much hope for Okeno to get more love as a slaver port going forward. LO: Firebrands describes the Kholo (Gnolls) of that settlement as being brought on en masse as Zephyr Guards to protect the Pactmaster regime from revolution, explicitly as a replacement for the work they can no longer do with slavery outlawed in the nation.

No, I'm not attached to the "slave port" idea at all. They can be, for example, a port for pirates. Or a raider port.

Regarding Katapesh - I guess I just think that the market for goods of dubious ethnic value is not what the whole country deserves. I'm ready to see more content, but so far I'm not in love with the current version.

As for Thuvia... Maybe. It's just that neither I nor my friends seem to have Enmity Cycle, as far as I know.

Tropkagar wrote:

And one more message, because I don't know where to post it, and this question is very distant, but it concerns the regions. I have a question - why is the population of Golarion so small? I mean, Absalom's population of 300,000 is very small. Baghdad in the tenth century AD had a population of two million. At various times prior to this, Rome, Constantinople, and Alexandria very likely had populations of more than a million, and it is also possible that Syracuse and even Babylon. Compared to this, Absalom as the largest city in the world looks rather pathetic.

Golarion repeatedly suffers magical apocalypses and invasions, which keeps numbers down - that’s how I’ve always squared it in my head, anyway.

You should probably know for your other message that slavery is out in Pathfinder going forward, and has already been confirmed to be abolished in Katapesh and Qadira (but with it gone in Cheliax, expect it gone everywhere). It won’t be a theme for the region again.

No, I understand that it has been cancelled. I just wanted to say that such topics do not bother me and I do not understand at all why others are happy about this. I think the abolition of slavery in Cheliax provided a good plot hook, but otherwise I'm fairly indifferent to the abolition of slavery.

The Raven Black wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Could the two great nations going to war happen in Tian-xia or Arcadia ?

I dunno about Tian Xia considering it'd be so soon after Season of Ghosts.

Arcadia, on the other hand, could be a maybe, but I don't think the great military powers of that continent have been telegraphed as wanting to go to war as much as Andoran and Cheliax have...it's POSSIBLE, but an Andoran/Cheliax throwdown feels more PROBABLE, at least from my perspective...

TBH I think Andoran and Cheliax going to war now, with the Whispering Tyrant out there, would be the dumbest move for both countries.

There are plenty of real world and fictional world examples of countries going to war for dumb reasons.

I suppose this can be considered official confirmation of the war between these two particular factions.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

but it feels like the "primarily about Cheliax" stories left are "that war with Andoran" (where it would be more traditional for the PCs to side with Andoran)

That time may be coming sooner than we think...** spoiler omitted **

Great news! We need more attention to these two nations. I love lawful evil factions. And I would like more Andoran (in the first edition, it seemed to me completely deprived of content that would really influence the world).

My favorite thing in terms of flavor is the Witch's Hut. Plus, in one of the games with access to firearms, this movable volume turned into a real monster, which acted as a scarecrow for the inhabitants of the Mana Wastes. It may not sound all that cool at first glance and requires a certain degree of masterful approval, but it's the closest thing we've got to a giant combat robot.

And one more message, because I don't know where to post it, and this question is very distant, but it concerns the regions. I have a question - why is the population of Golarion so small? I mean, Absalom's population of 300,000 is very small. Baghdad in the tenth century AD had a population of two million. At various times prior to this, Rome, Constantinople, and Alexandria very likely had populations of more than a million, and it is also possible that Syracuse and even Babylon. Compared to this, Absalom as the largest city in the world looks rather pathetic.

Finally, I read the discussions in the topic to express my opinion about this region. Well, let's start. (By the way, on my own note, I personally have no problems with the spread of slavery in this region. However, I would calmly see similar material in other regions of Golarion.)

Qadira: Probably the country I'm most looking forward to, but not because I'm interested in it in and of itself. I see Qadira as part of the Padishah-Empire of Kelesh. This means that this is at least some opportunity to get more information about this state. I am generally surprised that we still have no complete information about the largest, richest, and possibly the most developed state in the world. Seriously, why is that?

Osirion: I am a fan of the civilizations of the Ancient Near East. But with the exception of Ancient Egypt. Give me Phenicia, Carthage, Numidia, Assyria, Media, Ancient Sumer, Hittites - I'll take it all and ask for more. But a literal Egypt that also uses literal ancient Egyptian gods? My interest in this place is close to zero. Even Nehekhara from Warhammer is more interesting.

Thuvia and Katapesh: I mix them up because I don't think either country has enough color to be interesting to me. Katapesh loses out to me as the trading capital of the Inner Sea. Absalom is much better. Thuvia as a country famous for its single elixir is no more interesting. In fact, the most interesting region for me among these two countries is Okeno. I'd love to see if this port of pirates and slavers gets more love in the future, as the Barbary pirate theme is largely unexplored in fantasy. I would even be happy if they were made significantly different from the main pirates of the setting. For example, here the pirates do not just arrange raids, they conduct a crowdfunding campaign to raise funds for organizing raids. And then they distribute these funds according to the signed agreements. Such activities could attract Devils to the island.

Rahadoum: But this is quite an interesting country for me, which I would like to see in a larger form. I like the idea of Rahadoum as almost the only country in the world that declares that "the laws of our country are above the divine will." I love this idea and would love Rahadoum as heroes. For example, the Pure Legion, which conducts anti-devil actions, stating that now the inhabitants of the city can decide their own destiny without the tyranny of the deities. Also, since the Cheliax have lost their planetarium on the continent, this port may become an autonomous region in Rahadoum. I would be interested to see this.

In fact, the one thing that will not change too much. I'd like to keep the spirit damage options for chaotic and lawful entities. What I mean is that I would like to have options for spirit damage, for example in Prothean vs Axiomite encounters. If it doesn't, then I'll probably try to write something for it.

Oh that’s so much better XD

And to my knowledge patriarch is an alternate term for Catholic Bishop, which has basically nothing to do with Golarion or it’s churches.

Well, in this case, I was thinking of a broader interpretation of a fairly old person who acts as a mentor and community leader. I don't know English well enough to be sure of the connotations in another language.

Amusing snarky comment about America invading/“saving” the Middle East aside I don’t think Sarenrae’s church has “patriarchs”.

I don't know how the Sarenrei church works at all, it's just a term for high-ranking and respected clergy. In my opinion, the chances of meeting such people are very high in the main center of this religion in the world.

Well, in this case, the driving force here is rather the opposite scenario, that the Middle East threatens with a military invasion of America, and not vice versa.

One of the stories I would like to see is the story of Andoran's embassy to the Padish-Empire of Kelesh.

In this case, the embassy is not just a group of ten people, but a large-scale diplomatic mission. Something like the Grand Embassy of Peter the Great. The idea is that Andoran wants to establish connections not only with the westernmost of the satrapies, but with the entire Empire. And accordingly, they send a large-scale expedition with a dozen diplomatic representatives, a large number of service personnel, not counting the others who joined the expedition.

For example, the military may try to share experiences with their counterparts in the east. Priests of Sarenrei in Andoran can travel to meet with the patriarchs of the church. Representatives of the largest guilds can go to make deals with the trading houses of the empire. In general, this is a truly large-scale diplomatic mission, the success of which can determine a lot.

However, the embassy is at the center of the conspiracy. The asuras who have infiltrated the leadership of certain groups of the Kelesh Empire want to unleash a large-scale war in the Inner Sea region in order to strengthen their positions and destroy the policies of their opponents. Their task is to destroy the very idea of ​​the embassy, arranging a large-scale diplomatic scandal that can be used to launch a large-scale invasion by the forces of the entire Empire.

The campaign begins in Quadira, from where the players gradually move east. Each book must be in a new satrapy.

Tropkagar wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Also wasn’t the Consortium in P1 at the climax of Organized Play?

I'm not aware of Organized Play at all.

That’s where 90% of the Aspis Consortium content is - they’ve been one of, if not the single main antagonists across Society’s run.

Even if you don’t do Organized Play (like me!), the scenarios have a lot of fun lore that isn’t found anywhere else.

In that case, I think a book about this organization is all the more needed.

I just really want an owlcat familiar for the witch.

Also wasn’t the Consortium in P1 at the climax of Organized Play?

I'm not aware of Organized Play at all.

Appealing to Alignments isn't gonna get you very far when we know Alignments are dead. I don't personally think that "the rich supervillains who exist as a foil to the Pathfinder Society" are a Lost Omens book I'm personally jumping for, but maybe some fun mad scientist stuff could end up in it.

(Point of order: you don't think the oldest still-extant nexus of magical learning could have a global reach? Surely crazier things have happened than Wizards who teleport and sages who wish to see the world.)

In general, you are fair about Alignments. But I just think that good villains are many times more important than heroes, since it is the villains that are almost always the main driver of the plot. That's why I'm so interested in various evil factions.

I just think that I don't see Magaambya as an organization on a global level. In my mind, Magaambya operates mainly in Mwangi, and meeting graduates from there somewhere in Irrisen... is unlikely. Yes, graduates of this magical school can be found all over the world, but I'm talking mainly about agents of the organization who perform tasks on the other side of the world.

I understand that such a book is unlikely to appear, but in general I would like to state the fact that I am interested in such an organization and materials on it.

And to be completely honest, I think that this organization would be even more suitable as a global organization for the setting than some others. I mean, it's hard for me to imagine Magaambya as a large international and fairly decentralized organization, unlike Firebrands or the Pathfinder Society.

In addition, this organization in my opinion would fulfill the task of an evil large-scale organization, since Firebrands is a chaotic organization, Knights of Lastwall is a good organization, and Hellknights is a law organization.

I could imagine the Aspis Consortium as something like the Pentex Corporation from the World of Darkness, and the factions of the Aspis Consortium could represent different business lines. One group, for example, may be focused on economic exploitation, and are active in Geb, distributing their provisions throughout the world. Another group is working on questionable scientific research, for example by supporting research into stasian coils at Ustlav.

At the same time, I want to note that the organization is interesting in that they (as far as I know) do not strive for any goals that are destructive to the world. And therefore, peaceful interaction with them is quite possible, especially considering how much the world depends on their economic activity. In the end, everyone needs to eat, and the Knights of Lastwall may well use, for example, the weapons they produce.

A thing that I hope with great desire. The Witch will not lose her Witch's Hut. Firstly, this is a tribute to the tradition of Baba Yaga from Slavic mythology. Secondly, this is a chic thing in the original use. In one of our campaigns, we put together a party of Inventor, Gunslinger, Wizard and Witch. Even if the Hut itself can be a small house, however, in our case, the Hut turned into a mobile fortified point with artillery on the roof.

I believe DnD made their elves pretty different from Tolkien to be as safe as they could from IP infringement lawsuits.

I find this hard to believe, since the High Elves in Warhammer are basically Tolkien's literal Noldor.

Tropkagar wrote:

I would also add Mzali. I can't say how they feel about non-humans, but they have different methods of interacting with other humans. If you are not from the people of Mwangi, then when you enter this city, you will simply be executed. I am sure that such a position of the state is very xenophobic.

Strength of Thousands does likely see those restrictions relaxed. We’ll see where the canon results of that land, but progress in that AP assumes Mzali opens up at least a little, and potentially almost completely.

I believe the ban on non-Mwangi applies to nonhumans; some book mentions a Halfling staying away.

Well, I would say that we have to wait another six years until the third edition to be confident about it.

I'm just not sure if this restriction applies to the non-human groups that Mwangi is home to. After all, we have enough varieties of elves from here.

I would say that this is unlikely, since we already had an article about Castrovel.

It's a bit of a selfish wish, but is it possible to make an Owlcat monster to replace an Owlbear?

^Blame AD&D 1st Edition or maybe even D&D before that. AD&D (and D&D?) made Elves smaller and more frail . . . and also limited their advancement as anything other than Thief, including as Magic-Users. At least D&D 3rd Edition got rid of that limitation, and then it stayed gotten rid of in Pathfinder.

Yes, and that annoys me a lot. I mean, Tolkien's Elu Thingol was the tallest of all Elves and Men. There were fan attempts to calculate his height based on other characters... in general, it came out to be about 2.7 meters. I'm sure it's not very similar to the classic elves in DnD.

My opinion on Kyonin elves is quite mixed, as they are one of my least favorite elves in all of fantasy.

I love elves. I love Tolkien's elves and really believe that he portrays them in an interesting and original way. However, most of the elves based on Tolkien's work have lost his originality. I believe it is almost impossible to confuse the Avari elves with the Noldor elves. I beg to note that the elves of the Noldor are often two-meter warriors who fight in heavy armor and use two-handed swords for longswords.

However, post-Tolkien elves very often lose the atmosphere of his work. The Kyonin elves are a crystal clear example of this type.

Compared to this, for example, I am much more people of the high elves of Warhammer, since they show the atmosphere of the people of the Noldor much better.

Honestly, I'm not even sure what can be done to make Kyonin an interesting culture. Other elves of Golarion are often interesting and distinctive. Kyonin are standard fantasy elves.

I guess I would like to see more information and interaction with Castrovel's elves.

I would also add Mzali. I can't say how they feel about non-humans, but they have different methods of interacting with other humans. If you are not from the people of Mwangi, then when you enter this city, you will simply be executed. I am sure that such a position of the state is very xenophobic.

Morhek wrote:

keftiu wrote:

The nations of the Segada Protocol haven't pushed them out yet, even after a number of heinous crimes from the Chelish colonists; I'd love to know why.

I won't pretend to be as up on Arcadia as I am about the Inner Sea, but the impression I've always had is that the Segada Protocol tolerates the Avistani colonies because they're so geographically small, militarily weak, and economically insignificant compared to its indigenous neighbours that they're simply not worth bothering with, whatever annoyances the people there are capable of causing. And if Segada deals with the Chelish colonies, Razatlan might see an opportunity on its flank.

Easy access to trade goods from across the Arcadian Ocean may be a factor as well.

I can even imagine a limited naval war between Cheliax and Andoran just for control of the exclusive trade with Arcadia. Your monopoly will not be broken if no other ship crosses the ocean.

Meanwhile... A thought about Arcadia. I am absolutely convinced that in the event of this book, we should get the Naagloshi archetype for the Druid or Shifter (if it appears).

Tropkagar wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Tropkagar wrote:

Speaking of Arcadia, I'd probably wish for something exotic and quite crazy, especially if it's going to be a full campaign. Perhaps the struggle between the Aztecs and the Vikings, given that there is the Mesoamerican empire of Razatlan, and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings have Valenhall here?

You may want to read that lore a little more closely; that “struggle” has led to a mixed community (Port Valen), mixed-heritage youth (the Valenborn), and cross-cultural spiritual traditions (1e had Mahwek Mediums calling on legendary Ulfen spirits). Folks are broadly getting along up there, it’s not gonna suddenly turn into a White People’s Violent Invasion story.

I’m also not sure Razatlan is an empire anymore. My understanding is that the modern nation is a quieter rump state, kind of like Taldor.

No, I understand that in general the relationship is good. I just find the idea of an Aztec vs Viking war crazy and exotic enough to want to pursue. I know this is unlikely and often against canon (even with the inevitable retcons in second edition books). It's just a stupid idea that makes me laugh insanely.

Also, I was thinking more of the opposite storyline, where the warmonger is trying to create his empire in Arcadia, and the players have to stop him.

I am not sure what you mean by inevitable retcons.

Maybe the word is used in a broader sense than what I thought.

Which retcons do you see as inevitable ?

I use this in a broad sense in relation to the fact that a fairly long period of time has passed between the materials of the first and second editions in real life and rethinking of the material is natural and inevitable (similar changes were also inside the first edition, between early and later materials). The Mwangi book is a perfect example of this.

I apologize if I'm not being clear. English is not my best language.

Tropkagar wrote:

Speaking of Arcadia, I'd probably wish for something exotic and quite crazy, especially if it's going to be a full campaign. Perhaps the struggle between the Aztecs and the Vikings, given that there is the Mesoamerican empire of Razatlan, and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings have Valenhall here?

You may want to read that lore a little more closely; that “struggle” has led to a mixed community (Port Valen), mixed-heritage youth (the Valenborn), and cross-cultural spiritual traditions (1e had Mahwek Mediums calling on legendary Ulfen spirits). Folks are broadly getting along up there, it’s not gonna suddenly turn into a White People’s Violent Invasion story.

I’m also not sure Razatlan is an empire anymore. My understanding is that the modern nation is a quieter rump state, kind of like Taldor.

No, I understand that in general the relationship is good. I just find the idea of an Aztec vs Viking war crazy and exotic enough to want to pursue. I know this is unlikely and often against canon (even with the inevitable retcons in second edition books). It's just a stupid idea that makes me laugh insanely.

Also, I was thinking more of the opposite storyline, where the warmonger is trying to create his empire in Arcadia, and the players have to stop him.

The thought that crossed my mind is that Drift Crisis is basically a great story element for the Starfinder setting. This is a reversible change that can affect the entire setting and present the conflict in the setting from a different angle. Perhaps, even with a set of ideas, how the already released AP for the second edition can be changed.

Therefore, I had a question - do you think that such a change can be useful to the setting? What could play the role of such an event? What story could be at the center of it?

The main thing I think about is something related to magic, considering how the world as a whole depends on it. But my knowledge of the cosmology of the setting is not good enough to say whether it is even possible to implement something so massive.

(Also, I don't know where to place this topic more correctly. Lost Omens or Adventure Paths?)

Tropkagar wrote:

I suggest increasing its level of danger through the eyes of the player, especially the player who is not deeply immersed in the setting. To that end, I would like to show that Cheliax is also capable of disrupting the status quo to its own advantage. And it should be an unconditional benefit, without reservations.

What difference does Cheliax being proficient at foreign conquest make to a player whose primary point of contact with the regime is its police and state security forces rather than its army (that is to say, anyone who is playing a subject of Cheliax and not a soldier opposing its soldiers on behalf of some other state, or non-state people)?

Besides, what you've asked for exists already. If you want to play as a Chelish agent for some reason there's Hell's Vengeance or any number of Pathfinder Society scenarios, if you want to play as an evil character in an actually good Adventure Path there's Reign of Winter and Blood Lords, and if you want to play through a war there's Kingmaker and Ironfang Invasion and War for the Crown.

No, I agree that there are separate elements of the desired in different APs. It's just that from my point of view, the events of the Cheliax-related AP demonstrate the capabilities of the country as a whole, since we faced not only the police forces, but also the navy and the army. Therefore, I really believe that the success of the Cheliax will make them a more formidable opponent in the future. Because even if the defeats gave Cheliax a reason to solve internal problems, it looks like a defeat that they are trying to learn from. Therefore, an impressive victory against a serious opponent can demonstrate that they learn.

I perceive this as a fairly classic scenario of confrontation between the rather ordinary evil and the apocalyptic evil. From my point of view, this is a good rationale for the players to help Cheliax. Blood Lords is a similar type of story from a certain point of view.

In such a story, the characters don't even have to be, in fact, villains, unlike Hell Vengeance. Bosses are certainly evil, but the idea of fighting the undead is not an evil act.

Cheliax is the Hellish country where you can be part of the Resistance and make a difference.

Doing it in Nidal or Geb is far far less likely to end well.

Nidal is the land of unending doom.

Geb is the undead nation.

Cheliax is the setting's Nazis, a bit too often seen through the popular Indiana Jones' lens. They are the incompetent Evil guys your PCs can feel good punching in the face with the blessing of Paizo.

You can always make a more unpleasant opponent. I already suggested the idea of a story where the players are the fighters of the army sent against Tar-Baphon and to establish a protectorate in the territory of Lastwall. Yes, Cheliax is the closest analogue to the Nazi monarchy, but they want to terrorize the world with living inhabitants. Tar-Baphon wants to kill everyone. So in choosing between these two options, I will definitely turn to the district Hellknight.

Speaking of Arcadia, I'd probably wish for something exotic and quite crazy, especially if it's going to be a full campaign. Perhaps the struggle between the Aztecs and the Vikings, given that there is the Mesoamerican empire of Razatlan, and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings have Valenhall here?

In fact, I'm somewhat unsure about this piece of the setting. I... love this continent, but I think that the stability of the successor states is detrimental to the region. If we talk about this region, then I would like to see an attempt to unite it by force. Probably not even the entire region, but only the central regions of the old empire. However, I support those who say that in the current situation, this is where a big war should break out.

My thoughts on this region.

River Kingdoms: In fact, this is one of my favorite places in the region as it is quite generic. In this case, I would call it a direct advantage, since it allows you to start almost any story in this region, and almost all will not cause rejection. In this regard, the region is very similar to Varisia, and therefore I hope that the River Kingdoms will not undergo drastic changes and rework.

Numeria: Another one of my deep favorite regions, considering how much I liked the Iron Gods. If you think about the history associated with the region, then I would not want Dominion of Black to be the villain. Lovecraftian cultists are hard enough to empathize with already, and Lovecraftian aliens will be villains that you treat like natural disasters without perceiving them as individuals. In response, to be honest, I would like more problems with the technological warehouse, for example, related to the fact that Numeria's technologies fall into the hands of the wrong people, or the problems of androids and their perception on Golarion.

Brevoy: I feel pretty good about this state, but my opinion about it is that we did not get enough information about Brevoy to really fall in love with this country. I would like to see a story about this country, dedicated to the civil war in it. I am also a fan of the Slavic style, and therefore would like to see the Slavic heritage (albeit extremely distant) in the local peoples.

Sarkoris: This is going to be harsh enough, but... I don't want to see an excursion into the Sarkorian religion. Or rather, not in a typical way. The people of Sarkoris have lived in the diaspora for centuries, mingling with groups in the surrounding countries. I would like to see how the religion of Sarkoris has evolved over this century into a huge number of syncretic beliefs, which for the ancestors of these people would have been heresy at best. In the worst case, they would not recognize their religion here at all.

Mendev: I love the history of the Crusades, but in general I agree with those who say that without a war with demons, the country loses its meaning of existence. It really is. This country is so focused on the war against demons that it's even hard for me to find any new meaning for it now.

Razmiran: Another unpopular thought, but... I would like Razmiran to be preserved in its current form. Perhaps even without Razmir himself. Overall, I would love to see an adventure where the heroes kill Razmir, but their efforts go to waste, as too many servants of Razmir himself benefit from the existence of the state in its current form. You have killed the mad wizard. Now a cynical and intelligent sorcerer has taken his place. What have you achieved?

Wasn't the situation in Westcrown(before it got taken over) going exactly as planned? The Shadowcurse kept a lid on everyone while still letting the city function. Ilnerik seemed to be playing ball with Cheliax and the 'resistance' was pretty much people doing the equivalent of being angry on the internet.

Yes, and then the question arises. Why is Cheliax even needed in the setting? So that players can slowly take the country apart in adventures?

I suggest increasing its level of danger through the eyes of the player, especially the player who is not deeply immersed in the setting. To that end, I would like to show that Cheliax is also capable of disrupting the status quo to its own advantage. And it should be an unconditional benefit, without reservations.

Tropkagar wrote:

Cheliax is a great villain that has some of their signature traits that have already been worked out. Therefore, I would like Cheliax to win and restore their reputation as a strong state, and I would be extremely positive about the Cheliax AP, where the players help them win.

Reputation and foreign victories matter very little, the regime is stronger than it's ever been, having managed to crush or preempt and disorient its enemies.

I look at it from the perspective of the player, and not as an inhabitant of this world. Yes, Cheliax was able to get rid of many problems. But no, it's hard for me as a consumer to perceive Cheliax as a threat until they have at least some serious victories outside of maintaining the status quo.

Well, it's not my favorite genre (I've never played similar games at all and have no particular desire to start playing). So I'm just going to hope that we end up seeing another massive RPG set in the Pathfinder universe.

I would be happy even if it will be JRPG, no CRPG. Hmm... I even would be interested how Pathfinder can be set in JRPG restrictions

Tropkagar wrote:

However, I want the setting to have strong organized groups of evil characters.

As long as Pathfinder remains at its heart a combat simulator and heroic fantasy simulator, the need for having strong organized groups of evil characters will remain. They might change, especially as we do adventures and stories that give your players a chance to defeat or minimize some groups, but my goal is always to make sure that for each evil group that is defeated to put at least one more (preferably two more) into the game for future stories to tell.

Note that evil organized groups ≠ evil ancestries.

I completely agree and am glad to hear it. (God, the creative director of the company is responding to my messages! AAAA!!!)

I'm just looking at it through the somewhat cynical prism that a dysfunctional social environment creates a vicious cycle that is almost impossible to fight. However, I agree that this is already outside the topic of heroic fantasy, as I personally prefer stories about social problems and social interaction, and not just evil wizards. But this is a matter of personal preference in the genre.

To reiterate since it may have been lost in the wall of text I posted, I think we should get a book on northern Casmaron as a whole. Right now the area is united thematically by being the location of several ruined kingdoms, which scratches an itch that Golarion otherwise doesn't. Put Iobaria, Kakkari, and Ninshabur in the same book, throw in Kaladay due to its geographic proximity to the other locations, make a map, and sell it as a setting for players that are looking for a game where settlements are scattered and the bulk of the land is wilderness. I don't know about you, but I'd eat that up, and I can't say the same for the rest of Casmaron. It's as doable as a book on Kelesh and Vudra, although it would likely be saved for last.

Oh, I would be perfectly happy to see a book like this. I just find it a bit unlikely. I agree that Casmaron has enough content for such a book, but I'm afraid that hardly anyone will dare to sell three or even four books even on such a saturated continent (although I would be an absolute fan of such an idea and would be happy to see , for example, a detailed description of each satrapy of the Padishah-Empire of Kelesh).

I will say a probably extremely strange opinion, but... I want Cheliax to be a powerful state that has many achievements and victories.

I fully understand that this may sound strange, but I will try to explain.

Throughout 1ed, we have four APs that have demonstrated Cheliax's incompetence in one way or another. At first, Cheliax were unable to control the situation in the former capital, then they lost a large part of the fleet, then the province declared independence and defended it. Even the suppression of the uprising took place only in a situation where the country was on the verge of destruction.

After that, my opinion about the confrontation with Cheliax can be described as "oh, great, we are again beating these incompetent imperialists."

Cheliax is a great villain that has some of their signature traits that have already been worked out. Therefore, I would like Cheliax to win and restore their reputation as a strong state, and I would be extremely positive about the Cheliax AP, where the players help them win.

For example, Cheliax would stage an invasion of Rahadoum in order to take full control of the maritime traffic between the western ocean and the Inner Sea. This will allow them to easily control trade by levying taxes, as well as hindering any enemy movement at sea. I'm even ready to see how Andoran, after the victory of the Cheliax army, organizes an invasion himself, in order to simply prevent the enemy from capturing the entire country. Instead, they create their own puppet state, and both sides sponsor the rebels in their slow fight.

Or another option. Cheliax supports the fight against Tar-Baphon, and sends an army north to establish a protectorate in the form of a rebuilt Lastwall, knowing that even with their selfish desires, it's unlikely anyone will actively interfere with them against such an adversary. Numerous ex-slaves from Cheliax participate in this army in the hope of obtaining land in exchange for participation in the military campaign. Thus, Cheliax establishes its power over the region, expanding its influence, which causes discontent among the neighbors.

This is what I want to see. Cheliax wins in some places to be defeated elsewhere. That being said, even Cheliax victories should serve as possible starting points for future adventures.

How important is the size of the "evil" portion of a given ancestry?

Like there's no shortage of evil humans. The state religion of Cheliax is devil worship, for goodness sakes. It's just that we recognize that "while the aristocracy and government of Cheliax is evil, most normal people in Cheliax are like normal people elsewhere, they just live in different circumstances." Or do the same example with Nidal- Nisroch has ~25,000 people; how many of them really need to be evil to justify how Nidal is portrayed in the lore?

I'm not really clear on why this same approach wouldn't work for Elves, or Dwarves, or anybody else. The basic problem with Elves is that there large number of them anywhere, generally speaking. But it really wouldn't be hard to justify a significant portion of the Alijae getting corrupted by some Demon magic if you wanted it for a story.

I'm not asking that we have a clear way of singling out evil representatives based on skin color. However, I want the setting to have strong organized groups of evil characters. And I'm afraid that if the drow disappear from the setting, then a similar niche among the elves will remain empty (among the dwarves, we have the followers of Droskar). That being said, I'm not sure if replacing drow with serpent folk would be an equal replacement (but that's just my usual skepticism, though).

This is of course my own preference, but what I appreciate about Pathfinder's setting is that it's quite a dark place. And I personally would like the evil groups in the world to be an objective reality, and not the suddenly appearing evil cultists of Rovagug, who are instantly killed by the heroes as some monster of the week.

I certainly understand that this is hyperbole and exaggeration, but I think the general idea is clear.

Tropkagar wrote:

I did not find a suitable topic, despite the fact that most of the rest of the regions of the world are discussed.

That's because I'm contrarian and named it differently x'D Bit surprised ye didn't find it by searching for Casmaron though

I just watch for What do you want from a Lost Omens threads... )))

However, for the rest, I want to note that I would still like a full-fledged book on the continent, since otherwise the chances of seeing information on the northern Kasmaron are quite small ... It is my dream to see a good implementation of Slavic folklore in the form of Iobaria, but this topic is not in demand enough the public so that we can see a whole book about Iobaria.

The main thing that worries me in this situation... will there be groups of evil elves in the setting? I mean, drow aren't the only evil elves in popular culture. There are Melnibonians of Moorcock, there are Drukhari from Warhammer, there is in the end Tolkien with his Maeglin. Evil elves are not exclusive to DnD and I would really like to see them.

In fact, I look at Iobaria as at Ancient Rus'. The territory, which is controlled by a conglomerate of different tribes with a common origin, where the Vikings came and created a single state. Actually, in my opinion, this is exactly what Iobaria refers to, given the role of the Ulfen in the society of Iobaria.

And about the comparison with Rohan. I do this not by chance, since early Bulgaria was formed after the Turkic tribes came to the Balkans. They were excellent horsemens, so the comparison with Rohan seemed very appropriate to me.

And finally, yes, Casmaron as a whole is a potential source of a wide variety of stories, which, unfortunately, are very poorly developed.

And I'm really sorry that such potential is being wasted. Iobaria, for example, could make room for a good depiction of Slavic folklore, rather than the one in Reign of Winter (the Rasputin book is very, very hard to take seriously). But many characters of Slavic folklore have become an integral part of fantasy. The most classic lich in world culture is the Slavic Koschey the Immortal, given that he even had his own phylactery.

I did not find a suitable topic, despite the fact that most of the rest of the regions of the world are discussed. Plus, until recently, I missed the information that the Tian-Xa book is in production. At the same time, it seems to me that a large book on the states of Kasmaron can be no less interesting than Golarion's East Asia.

Thinking about what is known about the region, I see some good opportunities for how the setting could be expanded and developed.

1. Padishah-Empire of Kelesh. I consider it a monstrous omission that there is practically no information about this state, despite the fact that Kelesh is the largest and perhaps even the most powerful empire of Golarion at the present time. That being said, what I would like to point out is that the Islamic world in real life presents many different cultural and historical patterns that could be reproduced in the Empire of Kelesh, which is divided among the satrapies.

Vassal empires are coastal city-states that send their expeditions across the seas of the whole world, similar to the position of Phoenicia in the Persian Empire. A great city in the valley of two rivers, one of the largest cities in the world, like Baghdad. A prosperous intermountain valley through which caravans regularly pass, transferring goods from one end of the empire to the other, similar to the Ferghana Valley.

These are all very different places with different cultures.

2. Vudra. Probably the main opponent for the Padishah-Empire of Kelesh, which again can provide many interesting features, although here I have to admit - I myself do not understand Indian history well enough to make suitable comparisons.

3. Iobaria. This is a region that I honestly would like to see redesigned for a number of reasons. The main one - I personally think that Irrisen copes with the Slavic atmosphere quite badly. In fact, I would say that Irrisen is largely modified to fit the classic fantasy, leaving only the eternal winter and some of the mythological characters. However, in reality, Slavic folklore is quite original and interesting. Polabsky Slavs (historical inhabitants of northern Poland) had almost unique multi-faced idols. Bulgaria from its early history was more like Rohan from The Lord of the Rings. In Russian epics, strong female characters are a normal thing, for example, Nastasya Korolevichna, Vasilisa Mikulishna or Marya Morevna. I was really impressed with how Mwangi's Expanse was implemented, and I believe that Paizo can portray Slavic mythology well as well.

4. Iblydos, which again can be well worked out, although I'm sure there are enough here who know Hellenistic mythology better than I do.

5. The Grass Sea, as the last region. At the same time, I would say that for me personally it would be regrettable to see this region as a kind of Mongolia. I mean, historically, the steppes of Eurasia were not only Mongols. There were many other nomads who formed their own states and cultures. Scythians and Sarmatians from ancient times. Ancestors of historical Hungarians who were once brutal raiders. Jews of the Khazar Khaganate. Perhaps even someone similar to the Goths, since the Goths created states in the steppe lands during their migrations.

I just want to raise this topic, since the territories of Eurasia gave rise to many diverse cultures, however, the same nomads of the Eurasian steppes are often equated with the Mongols.

What exactly do you think about the prospects of the region?