If a level 8 Shadow sorcerer cast "Shadow conjuration" using-
Heighten Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast spells as if they were a higher level.
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level.
Level Increase: The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
....and chose 9th level the spell would be cast AS a level 9 spell, correct? This would effect the duration as well as the DC, and the quasi-reality %
Shadow Conj: CL8 + 9(spell level) + attribute mod + miscmod(feats/class)
Same with Shadow Evocation when able to cast the spell?
Spell Level affects: DC's, slot used to cast, and other affects specifically referencing spell level (such as light/dark spells counters spells of the opposite school of equal or lower spell level).
Caster Level affects: damage, duration, range, Spell Resistance, Caster Level checks, your ability to cast certain level spells in the first place based on your class, and concentration checks
Caster Attribute affects: ability to cast a spell of [Attribute]-10 level, slots per level based on modifier, DC based on modifier, and concentration checks based on modifier
I'm not sure where else to explain what is wrong with what you posted which seems to just be word salad.
It affects anything that is based on the level of the spell, and that is all. It does not affect the caster level or modify anything else. It is still the same spell it was before the metamagic was applied. Shadow Conjuration heightened to 9th level does not become Shades; it is a 9th level Shadow Conjuration. The primary purpose of the feat is to raise the DC of the spell. Shadow Conjuration is a 4th level spell so the DC for the save is 14 (10 + spell level) + the casting stat modifier. Shadow Conjuration raised to a 9th level spell the DC for its save would be 19 (10 + spell level) + the casting stat modifier. Shadow Conjuration would not be able to penetrate a Globe of Invulnerability, but a Shadow Conjuration raised to at least a 5th level spell would. Basically, it allows you to use a higher-level spell slot and have the spell count as a spell of the level of the slot used.
It affects anything that is based on the level of the spell, and that is all. It does not affect the caster level or modify anything else. It is still the same spell it was before the metamagic was applied. Shadow Conjuration heightened to 9th level does not become Shades; it is a 9th level Shadow Conjuration. The primary purpose of the feat is to raise the DC of the spell. Shadow Conjuration is a 4th level spell so the DC for the save is 14 (10 + spell level) + the casting stat modifier. Shadow Conjuration raised to a 9th level spell the DC for its save would be 19 (10 + spell level) + the casting stat modifier. Shadow Conjuration would not be able to penetrate a Globe of Invulnerability, but a Shadow Conjuration raised to at least a 5th level spell would. Basically, it allows you to use a higher-level spell slot and have the spell count as a spell of the level of the slot used.
Thank you. That is what I assumed; I was also looking if anyone would say you cannot use the feat to raise the spell to level 9 for some reason, so it would seem to be ALMOST overpowered....as a Gnome Umbral Sorcerer it is too good to pass up for Shadow conj/evoc spells.
Spell Level affects: DC's, slot used to cast, and other affects specifically referencing spell level (such as light/dark spells counters spells of the opposite school of equal or lower spell level).
Caster Level affects: damage, duration, range, Spell Resistance, Caster Level checks, your ability to cast certain level spells in the first place based on your class, and concentration checks
Caster Attribute affects: ability to cast a spell of [Attribute]-10 level, slots per level based on modifier, DC based on modifier, and concentration checks based on modifier
I'm not sure where else to explain what is wrong with what you posted which seems to just be word salad.
Nah, you just don't have enough skill points in KNW: Arcana.
As a question, where's an 8th level sorcerer getting a 9th level spell slot (normally would require a 18th level sorcerer) to cast a shadow conjuration heightened to 9th level?
Good question!
This is one thought I had as well and answered it thus: The feat says the spell is "as difficult to cast" but nowhere says that the actual level increases....For example QUICKEN spell uses up+4 level spell slot, but Heighten spell does not say that.
It does state that it is "as difficult" to cast as a spell of its level, so I assume this means for defensive casting, caster level checks, violent motion etc, as the term "spell slot" is never used
It affects anything that is based on the level of the spell, and that is all. It does not affect the caster level or modify anything else. It is still the same spell it was before the metamagic was applied. Shadow Conjuration heightened to 9th level does not become Shades; it is a 9th level Shadow Conjuration. The primary purpose of the feat is to raise the DC of the spell. Shadow Conjuration is a 4th level spell so the DC for the save is 14 (10 + spell level) + the casting stat modifier. Shadow Conjuration raised to a 9th level spell the DC for its save would be 19 (10 + spell level) + the casting stat modifier. Shadow Conjuration would not be able to penetrate a Globe of Invulnerability, but a Shadow Conjuration raised to at least a 5th level spell would. Basically, it allows you to use a higher-level spell slot and have the spell count as a spell of the level of the slot used.
Would you say that Heighten (with a spontaneous caster, could be used with every daily casting...say, four heightened color sprays at level 1?
Good question!
This is one thought I had as well and answered it thus: The feat says the spell is "as difficult to cast" but nowhere says that the actual level increases....For example QUICKEN spell uses up+4 level spell slot, but Heighten spell does not say that.
It does state that it is "as difficult" to cast as a spell of its level, so I assume this means for defensive casting, caster level checks, violent motion etc, as the term "spell slot" is never used
What do you think "...is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level" actually means then?
But if that alone isn't enough to convince you, there is also this FAQ - in particular the last sentance of the first paragraph.
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As a question, where's an 8th level sorcerer getting a 9th level spell slot (normally would require a 18th level sorcerer) to cast a shadow conjuration heightened to 9th level?Good question!
This is one thought I had as well and answered it thus: The feat says the spell is "as difficult to cast" but nowhere says that the actual level increases....For example QUICKEN spell uses up+4 level spell slot, but Heighten spell does not say that.
It does state that it is "as difficult" to cast as a spell of its level, so I assume this means for defensive casting, caster level checks, violent motion etc, as the term "spell slot" is never used
That means if you want to cast it as a 9th level spell, you need to treat it as a 9th level spell and use an actual 9th level spell slot: The phrasing is 'non-standard' because the level increase is not a fixed number (you can pick any effective spell level from the original spell level +1 through spell level 9).
Heighten Spell has rather limited effects: You need to prepare/cast it from an appropriate level slot, the spell DC is based off this actual slot level, and certain specific 'spell level' interactions are impacted (Like how Spell Immunity and the Globe of Invulnerability spell group only impacts spells below a certain spell level): Nothing else changes, so this is not a feat you actually see used very much (there is typically a better use for that higher level spell slot than ramping up the DC on a lower level spell).
Good question!
This is one thought I had as well and answered it thus: The feat says the spell is "as difficult to cast" but nowhere says that the actual level increases....For example QUICKEN spell uses up+4 level spell slot, but Heighten spell does not say that.
It does state that it is "as difficult" to cast as a spell of its level, so I assume this means for defensive casting, caster level checks, violent motion etc, as the term "spell slot" is never used
What do you think "...is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level" actually means then?
But if that alone isn't enough to convince you, there is also this FAQ - in particular the last sentance of the first paragraph.
Thank you for the link....and to tell the truth, as the term "spell slot" is never mentioned it could be argued it doesnt matter....THOUGH I agree with you.
Difficulty casting doesnt seem to include "slots"...take a staff of flame for example.
Wall of fire, for 2 charges, can be cast at CL8 by a lvl 1 wizard etc.
Difficulty casting doesnt seem to include "slots"...take a staff of flame for example.
Wall of fire, for 2 charges, can be cast at CL8 by a lvl 1 wizard etc.
Magical staves have their own rules that function differently than innate spell casting as a class rules.
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Good question!
This is one thought I had as well and answered it thus: The feat says the spell is "as difficult to cast" but nowhere says that the actual level increases....For example QUICKEN spell uses up+4 level spell slot, but Heighten spell does not say that.
It does state that it is "as difficult" to cast as a spell of its level, so I assume this means for defensive casting, caster level checks, violent motion etc, as the term "spell slot" is never used
What do you think "...is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level" actually means then?
But if that alone isn't enough to convince you, there is also this FAQ - in particular the last sentance of the first paragraph.
Thank you for the link....and to tell the truth, as the term "spell slot" is never mentioned it could be argued it doesnt matter....THOUGH I agree with you.
Difficulty casting doesnt seem to include "slots"...take a staff of flame for example.
Wall of fire, for 2 charges, can be cast at CL8 by a lvl 1 wizard etc.
Charging a Staff of Fire requires the expenditure of a 4th level spell slot and the Gold Value of that particular item is far beyond what a 1st level character (or even a small army of 1st level characters) would have access to (a level 6 character should only have around 16,000g of cash and gear).
And, as noted by another poster, it's a magic item: Your character isn't actually casting the spell but rather the item is casting it at your command and it follows different rules (even if it gets to use your stats).
As a spellcaster's knowledge of magic grows, he can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the norm. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, is at least possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up. Metamagic feats do not affect spell-like abilities.
As the description of metamagic feats states, spells modified by a metamagic feat already use a higher-level spell slot. Heightened spell did not restate that because it applies to any metamagic spell.
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
The wording on heightened spell could have been better. The effective level of a metamagic spell is equal to the spell slot it occupies. Heightend spell is the exception to the rule that a metamagic spell does not increase the level of the spell. The other metamagic feats specify a static increase in the spell level because they have a set effect. Heightened spell does not have a static increase because you can use any higher level spell slot. How effective heightened spell is depends directly on the spell slot used to cast the spell. If I use a 5th level spell slot on Shadow Conjuration it is treated like a 5th level spell, if I use a 9th level slot it is treated like a 9th level spell.
Staves are magic items that specifically grant the user the ability to cast spells. There are rules on who can use staves but using a magic item like a staff or a wand not the same as casting your own spells.
Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.
Strictly speaking, this is not true. You need to look at the individual metamagic feats to determine that. Of course heighten (and especially its FAQ) makes it clear heighten does follow this general rule.
Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.Strictly speaking, this is not true. You need to look at the individual metamagic feats to determine that. Of course heighten (and especially its FAQ) makes it clear heighten does follow this general rule.
That was copied and pasted from the core rule book. Mericful spell is the exception to the rule, but it came out after the core rule book was published.