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Those are two separate instances of damage, so they can both trigger weaknesses, symmetrical to how they could run into two resistances or both be reduced by resistance to all damage.
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Even if you hit with a Flaming Greatsword it would proc both weaknesses. The "only use the highest" rule is intended for things like having a weakness to both cold iron and slashing, as those are both sub types of "Physical" damage.
For example, hitting a Terotricus with a Holy Flaming Cold Iron Great Sword would only trigger three weaknesses, not four.
Basically, if you have to roll a different damage die, it's a different "instance" of damage.
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Sorry I mis-wrote in my last post that slashing is a sub-type of physical, which it should be opposite. I'm pretty sure I posted this somewhere before but here's my breakdown of how damage types should work:
Damage types come in two categories, Main and Sub-Type. The main types are obvious things, like Piercing or Fire, but sub-types are things that are riders on the main types of damage, like magical or physical. For example, you wouldn't say a spell does "Cold Piercing" damage, you would say it does "Magical Cold and Magical Piercing".
The list of main types are as follows:
Acid
Bleed
Bludgeoning
Chaotic
Cold
Electricity
Evil
Fire
Force
Good
Lawful
Mental
Negative
Piercing
Poison
Positive
Slashing
Sonic
"Un-typed" (Disintegrate for example)
And a non-exhaustive list of Damage Sub-Types:
Adamantine
Cold-Iron
Critical
Ghost-Touch
Magical
Physical
Precision
Silver
The main difference between the two is that you can't possibly do damage with just a sub type. They always have to be attached to another damage type. There is nothing that does just magic damage, or just precision.
So if you have a spell or Strike that does multiple main damage types, it should trigger weaknesses for each of those types, but if it has a sub-type in there, you pick the largest between the sub-type and main type.
The main question with Spellstrike is if it combines the spell damage with the Strike damage, and the answer is no. They are two separate things that use the same roll to determine their degree of success, so a Flaming sword with Produce Flame would trigger Fire weakness twice.
The main difference between the two is that you can't possibly do damage with just a sub type. They always have to be attached to another damage type. There is nothing that does just magic damage, or just precision.
So if you have a spell or Strike that does multiple main damage types, it should trigger weaknesses for each of those types, but if it has a sub-type in there, you pick the largest between the sub-type and main type.
The main question with Spellstrike is if it combines the spell damage with the Strike damage, and the answer is no. They are two separate things that use the same roll to determine their degree of success, so a Flaming sword with Produce Flame would trigger Fire weakness twice.
I can mostly agree with this. Though I can also see how people would read the rules and run the game differently.
To point out something for confirmation: If that spellstrike attack was against someone who had Resist All 4 (from Champion reaction or Amulet Thaumaturge or something like that), then the resistance would also apply to the slashing damage from the sword, the fire damage from the sword, and the fire damage from the spell separately - yes?
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Also, I am not sure that I would put Ghost Touch as a damage subtype. It feels more like a trait of the attack, not the damage. Much like Non-lethal is. Otherwise the weapon damage would bypass the resistance of incorporeal creatures, but the other damage from the attack - such as from its Flaming rune - would not.
To point out something for confirmation: If that spellstrike attack was against someone who had Resist All 4 (from Champion reaction or Amulet Thaumaturge or something like that), then the resistance would also apply to the slashing damage from the sword, the fire damage from the sword, and the fire damage from the spell separately - yes?
Yes, spellstrike does not bundle the two together, regardless of whether that is good or bad news for the magus at that moment.
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Also, I am not sure that I would put Ghost Touch as a damage subtype. It feels more like a trait of the attack, not the damage. Much like Non-lethal is. Otherwise the weapon damage would bypass the resistance of incorporeal creatures, but the other damage from the attack - such as from its Flaming rune - would not.
Ghost Touch on a weapon would apply to all damage types on the same weapon, just like how when you Crit you do Critical damage with all the damage types on the weapon.
Also, I am not sure that I would put Ghost Touch as a damage subtype. It feels more like a trait of the attack, not the damage. Much like Non-lethal is. Otherwise the weapon damage would bypass the resistance of incorporeal creatures, but the other damage from the attack - such as from its Flaming rune - would not.Ghost Touch on a weapon would apply to all damage types on the same weapon, just like how when you Crit you do Critical damage with all the damage types on the weapon.
Right... Which means that Ghost Touch is a property of the attack as a whole... not a sub-type of one of the instances of damage that the attack has...
Yes?
So a silver sword with a Flaming rune does silver slashing damage and fire damage. Non-silver fire damage.
But a sword with a Ghost Touch rune and a Flaming rune has Ghost Touch as a property of the attacks that it does. The damage is still slashing and fire. No sub-type. Which means that both will affect incorporeal with the Ghost Touch trait.
Same thing with non-lethal. If you have a non-lethal attack, all of the damage from the attack is non-lethal.
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Materials apply to the weapon damage type only because it's not a rune. You're complicating it by claiming things are "properties" of things when I'm just trying to simplify it by reducing things to one of two types. Ghost Touch is a special rune that applies the subtype to all damage dealt by the weapon. It's straight forward and easy to understand, no need to complicate it.
Nonlethal isn't a modifier on damage, it's a trait that's added to an attack roll/saving throw that changes what happens when you hit 0 HP. No creature it resistant or weak to nonlethal, only immune, and immunity can work on traits.
For example, immunity to Necromancy doesn't mean all damage from a Necromancy spell has the "Necromancy" sub-type, it means that if the attack/save has that trait it just doesn't affect them.
Yeah, I think it's never really specified what an "instance" of damage actually is. Personally, I think an instance means the total damage one Strike does. So a Flaming Frost Greatsword would do one instance of fire, cold, and slashing damage. Breaking down the fire and cold into more separate chunks seems weird to me, but I know that I'm in the minority and most likely wrong.
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That would make "instance of damage" for weaknesses be asymmetrical with what it means for resistances. Definitely not correct.
Thanks People.
Here we have problem with the concept "Instance".
Yes and it is because the damage rules are written in a conversational descriptive way not a perscriptive way.
They talk about persistent damage and different types of damage as you go through. As if they happen all at once. But pesistent damage explicitly happens at different times. Then they say that the different types of damage resolve differently (at least through the immunities section).
So I think at each point that damage occurs you total up all the damage for each damage type involved then take it through the procedure. Effectively every damage type is a separate instance. But the rules just aren't that clear.
Sorry I mis-wrote in my last post that slashing is a sub-type of physical, which it should be opposite. I'm pretty sure I posted this somewhere before but here's my breakdown of how damage types should work:
Damage types come in two categories, Main and Sub-Type. The main types are obvious things, like Piercing or Fire, but sub-types are things that are riders on the main types of damage, like magical or physical. For example, you wouldn't say a spell does "Cold Piercing" damage, you would say it does "Magical Cold and Magical Piercing".
The list of main types are as follows:
Acid
Bleed
Bludgeoning
Chaotic
Cold
Electricity
Evil
Fire
Force
Good
Lawful
Mental
Negative
Piercing
Poison
Positive
Slashing
Sonic
"Un-typed" (Disintegrate for example)And a non-exhaustive list of Damage Sub-Types:
Adamantine
Cold-Iron
Critical
Ghost-Touch
Magical
Physical
Precision
SilverThe main difference between the two is that you can't possibly do damage with just a sub type. They always have to be attached to another damage type. There is nothing that does just magic damage, or just precision.
So if you have a spell or Strike that does multiple main damage types, it should trigger weaknesses for each of those types, but if it has a sub-type in there, you pick the largest between the sub-type and main type.
The main question with Spellstrike is if it combines the spell damage with the Strike damage, and the answer is no. They are two separate things that use the same roll to determine their degree of success, so a Flaming sword with Produce Flame would trigger Fire weakness twice.
It is very complex. The damage types are as you say but the rest are just labels that show up now and then as resistances, immunities etc. I do agree that all damage has a type (precision being the exception) then various other labels:
They do provide some nomenclature of Damage Category for:
Energy, Physical, Alignment
Precision which is a non type type as it just piggy backs on other damage types
Then misc other properties
various Precious Materials - which is a misnomer as some very mundane materials can be included - eg wood, silver, ...
Then just about every effect type in the game starting with: magical ...
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There are ways to have resistance or weakness to precision damage specifically, for example, Skeletal armor spec or the Nothing but Fluff Poppet feat. This is why I am classifying it as a sub-type.
For example, if a Rogue strikes a level 10 Poppet with that feat, and deals 10 Piercing damage and 10 Piercing Precision, they would resist 5 of the precision damage.
If however the Poppet had Resist Piercing 10 as well, it would only resist 10 damage, since the "higher value only" clause would kick in.