Worst case you could use your action to ready an action to do what you were going to do anyway. I usually just use that action for something less offensive, like haste.
I guess there is an argument for not having line of sight to someone who is still "stealthed" and so has total concealment.
You may also just say, "it's magic". You know the guy is there despite failing your perception check, because magic.
It depends on how the BBEG got into stealth to begin with… if they were under the effects of an invisibility spell, then they are absolutely perfectly visible now. If it was just because of a stealth check to hide, then they are now viable not just because they just attacked someone, but also because they now lack any sort of cover or concealment to maintain their stealth from. If it was Greater invisibility, then they are still invisible and you might be in trouble…
As a divination wizard you get to act in the surprise round because of Forewarned. The enemy failing to act yet in the surprise round is irrelevant, and the technically HAVE acted already anyways via the attack they made that initiated the surprise round. Regardless though, the fact remains that you have an ability that lets you act in the surprise round, and you hav quicker reactions due to your higher initiative roll, it does matter that they haven’t acted yet, you get to act before them and they are no longer hidden.
Why are they no longer hidden though? They haven’t actually acted. They haven’t actually attacked yet as defined by the rules of magic.
Why are they no longer hidden though? They haven’t actually acted. They haven’t actually attacked yet as defined by the rules of magic.
If the DM simply rolled initative after they failed their perception and did not have the guy actually attack anyone, then he would still be hidden and the wizard would have no in character knowledge of wheee he is… forewarned would alert them of danger so they would know a threat is lurking somewhere but that is all. The way they OP described things, it sounds like the DM had them jump out and attack immediately after the failed perception and then rolled initiative, and that would have broke stealth.
An oddity of the system is that the ambusher literally can’t “attack” until after initiative is rolled.
Forewarned (Su): You can always act in the surprise round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a foe
So it seems pretty clear you can both not notice the foe and yet still act in the surprise round. But it’s not clear what that means. It seems like you know there is danger without necessarily knowing where the threat is.
Consider if there were two stealthed ambushers. One with higher and one with lower initiative than the wizard. Both intend to attack together. The first attacks the wizard. On the wizard’s turn one is in the open, but the other hasn’t had time to come out of hiding.
If you want a more narratively driven encounter scenario, then both lept out of stealth at the same time… one stuck before the wizard could act, but the other was just a little too slow and got blasted in their approach…
Both are perfectly valid outcomes… it just depends on what type of scene the DM wants to make… because after all, turn order is just a mechanical construct for gameplay purposes, narratively everything that happens each round happens all at once in a 6second time frame…
If the person leapt out, then they wouldn’t have stealth. And there would be no surprise round in the first place. For surprise to happen the ambusher must necessarily still have stealth before initiative is rolled.
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My reading of the rules is that stealth is not broken until after the first attack is made.
The advantage the diviner wizard has is that they know they are in danger, just not what that danger is. So the wizard has the opportunity to buff, retreat, hide, change weapons, etc. Nowhere does it say in the rules that the diviner wizard ability auto-negates stealth. The GM in the opening post has ruled correctly in my point of view.
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A diviner wizard will win the initiative most of the time. The opponent will be still hidden when the diviner wizard's turn comes. The diviner will know that something is happening, but not who is the opponent or where he is.
Even if the GM described the opponent jumping out of stealth when the diviner act that hasn't yet happened. The diviner hasn't a readied action, he has the standard action that people get during a surprise round. He simply has a hunch that something is going to happen.
People with high initiative often end up in that position. They could act before the opponents, ready an action or delay to be able to act after the opponent. Stealth ends when the person in stealth attacks, not before he acts.
I think the DM messed up. Knowing there is a divination wizard in the party you should decide how their ability works before any dice are rolled. Is it some "spidey-sense"(danger from the left) or maybe seeing a second into the future (a fireball/knife/foe is going to shoot/fly/run out from the passage to the left). How much information does the wizard get when his ability is used?
Only then;
1- ask for per rolls
2- ask for initiative rolls from the wiz and anyone who made the per roll
3- after getting the initiative order, then decide what information to reveal depending on how you are running the wizards ability and what actions the stealthed enemy is going to take.
Real problems begin if the wizard takes an action that causes the unknown enemy to change their mind and not attack/break stealth. You would have a scene where the wizard just casts a spell out of the blue responding to a threat only he knows about...and then nothing happens. Like Youtube "Tatsuya Reveals His Identity To Everyone - The Irregular At Magic High School Episode 24" the 1st 30 seconds.
The ambusher does have the option to not attack. But then initiative is still ongoing. If the ambusher doesn’t take advantage of those who are flat footed, they will just start taking actions in initiative to look for him.
Just because you have an action does not mean you can perform any action you want. You still have to be capable of taking that action. The fact that this happened in the surprise round does not make any difference. Let’s say that combat had been going on for several rounds and an invisible creature joins the combat in round 3 because he used his turn to get to the combat. In round 4 your character goes first, but fails his perceptions roll to spot the invisible creature. Can your character attack the invisible target when you are unaware that it is there? I would not allow it, nor would any GM I know of.
Normally a character failing his perception roll would not even act in the surprise round. The only thing that allows the Wizard to act in the surprise round is because of the supernatural ability Forewarned. All Forewarned does is to allow him to act in the surprise round and give him a bonus to initiative. He knows something is up but does not know exactly what is going on unless he made his perception roll or has some other means of determining what is happening. He could use a standard action for a defensive action like casting a spell. He could also use a move action to search the area, but that would prevent him from attacking in the surprise round.
I think the DM messed up. Knowing there is a divination wizard in the party you should decide how their ability works before any dice are rolled. Is it some "spidey-sense"(danger from the left) or maybe seeing a second into the future (a fireball/knife/foe is going to shoot/fly/run out from the passage to the left). How much information does the wizard get when his ability is used?
How do you figure the GM messed up? It is up to the player to read and understand the rules of the abilities they selected.
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The GM made the correct call in this case. The OP was mistaken in how things work. It is not the GM’s fault the player thought it gave them more than it does. A GM has enough on his plate without having to make sure the player understand all the rules. If a GM is going to be ma king house rules on how things operate it becomes then they should make sure players know what the GM is changing.