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I play a Divination Wizqrd who has a high Initiative and always acts in the Surprise Round.

Recently, we had an encounter where the bad guy was hidden and we all failed our perception checks.

The Bad Guy got a Surprise Round to attack. I was able to act in that round, but because my Initiative was so high, I went before the assailant that actually triggered the Surprise Round. The GM ruled that since the Bad Giy hadn't acted yet and I failed the perception check that I could act but not attack the hidden Bad Guy.

So how does this work? Because it seems to me that the Bad Guy's attack ( 2hich caused the Surprise round) would effectively drop his stealth for the purposes of detection. In other words, he leaps out to attack breaking cover allowing me to see him and act first.

What do you guys think?

Thanks. I tried looking under the PFS Legacy stuff but you can't ask new questions and the current PFS forum seem to only address 2e. But I will check there. Thank you.

As the title says, I have questions about 1st ed rules interactions. I tried going to the 1st Ed thread but it isnt letting me post new topics and I couldnt find an answer to my question. Also Im playing 1st Ed in a PFS campaign so I dont know if I that will be a factor as well.

For the record (not that what anybody on the net thinks really matters at all) I think the GM is quite likely being too strict but you haven't really provided sufficient information for me to be certain.

There are a couple of points I left out for brevity's sake and because they didn't seem terribly relevant to the question.

One is that this was a PFS session, so the RAW holds quite a bit more sway and the GM's decsions aren't as final as they would normally be. There is always the option of an appeal if the situation warrants.

I also suspect that the player of the character in question being her son might have influenced her position a bit. There was some eye rolling during his turn in frustration that no one was healing him because no one took medicine. I dont like to dwell on that part because I am loathe to accuse anyone of nepotism.

But to be honest, I am confident that my interpretation of the Anathema is the correct one. As I am new to PF 2E I wanted to double check with the community to make sure.

Thanks for the responses guys. I will definately bring up some of these points with my GM if the situation presents itself again.

That was how I interpreted it as well. Glad to know that I wasn't crazy.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect players to make a medicine check to know if an ally has stabilized.

I agree but the question I'm trying to determine is if the character had died while we were in combat would that have been a violation of the Anthema?

Tonight in our game we were in combat. One of the characters went down to zero. On his turn he stabilized. I took substantial damage and used Laying on Hands to heal myself, then attacked the bad guy.

The GM started telling me that not taking the time to check on my fallen comrade or by using LoH on myself instead of the character would violate Iomade's Anthema as I was potentially "leaving an ally to die." The GM ruled that I wouldn't know that the other player had stabilized.

I pointed out that the Anthema states I can't "leave an ally in need." I argued that since I was continuing to fight the bad guys that my actions wouldn't good against that restriction.

She stated that if the player had died I would have lost my divine powers.

So was I in danger of Violating that restriction?

I want to preface this by saying that I might just be stupid and what Im looking for is possibly coiled like a snake in front of me ready to strike, but Im asking anyway.

Where is the dang Additional Resources page for PF 2e? And why, after all of these years with PFS 1 and now in PF 2e, is there not a link for it under the Character Creation link?

What I need to find out is what class abilities spells equipment and archetypes are available for Society play. Additionally, what are the rules for archetypes and how do they work PF 2e?

As I am trying to make a character for my second PFS session for this evening, I fear greatly that assistance shall not come in time, but hope springs eternal and the community has all of my gratitude nonetheless.

My group recently started playing PF 2e due to the recent missteps of WotC that made supporting that game unappetizing. However, as we have started delving into PF 2e, I have personally found it to be an overly complex (in terms of rules not variety) overly restrictive game to play.

I have tried playing a Summoner, which use to be one of my favored classes, an Oracle, a Wizard, and a straight up Fighter. Almost without fail these characters have either died in their first or second encounters or have been completely ineffectual, was the case with the Wizard.

Old concepts, such as my ranged Paladin, are no longer possible to build or emulate.

So why play PF 2e? Whats the appeal? What am I missing?

Hey, Raving. I used to follow your builds for PF 1 and absolutely loved them!

Im also struggling to come up with fun viable builds for PF 2e. Its seems incredibly inferior to PF1. Hopefully, I can discover something to change my mind, but Im steadily losing hope.

Anyway, I hope you are able to find a fun build to play.

Thanks for all of the input folks. There's a lot there to look at and delve into

Ok so absent Smite is there a better ranged option other than Paladin (or rather Champion) there will lay out heavy damage?

Hey folks, I just came back to Pathfinder and have started playing 2e for the first time.

I'm struggling with the system because, while I have been told I can build whatever I want, the mechanics are there to support some of the older character themes that I enjoyed with PF 1.

For example, I used to run a Halfing Divine Hunter Paladin that rode around on a War Dog and lobbed arrows augmented with Smite at the baddies whilst leaning heavily into the Luck style spells and traits that made Halfings so much fun.

However, I dont seem to be able to build something similar in PF 2.

Now I will stress that I am very new to this rules system and most of my knowledge comes from playing and reading through a few of the class descriptions that I have been interested in.

So can anyone give me some suggestions as to how I might build something like my old Paladin usnde4 5he current rules system?

TPK. We just ran this scenario with a four play team. We had a mounted halfling fighter type lvl 3, my Flowing Monk 2/ Unchained Rogue 2, a lvl 4 Necromancer, and a lvl 1 Barbarian. We bypassed the first combat with Darak and the Bugbears in C2. We ended up encountering the entire dungeon of mobs in C5. The Creatures section for C5 states that all of the surviving NPCs from C2 will make their last stand at C5. So we had that whole room and the lvl 7 Oracle.

The Oracle blinded all of us except the Necro. He was held though and then hit with a Coup de Grace. They pummeled the rest of us while we missed shots due to total concealment. Eventually we were all knocked unconscious and subsequently killed. How is this a "good scenario for new players" as people have listed above? The ability for the BBEG to lay out 5 blinds at a DC17 and then still have access to 7 hold persons is insane. This is probably the third or fourth scenario that I have played recently that has had impossible to beat tactics. Whether its a construct with a hardness that no one can overcome, or an elemental that picks up the players and drops them each turn for four turns, or a caster with overpowered control spells, the scenarios are often unbeatable unless the players have some fore knowledge that would be impossible for them to justify.

I spent 3 weeks getting this character built to have it die in the second (third?) encounter of the scenario. Im at the point where the "fun" of playing Pathfinder is sorely overshadowed by the ridiculousness of the scenarios. I dont know if I will be continuing in society play.

Im a regular at our local group. During our 2-6 session, there were supposed to be two tables. When we got there however, it turned out that there werent enough players for a second table and the first one was full. My son and I got bumped. It happens. You might talk to the VC about letting you GM so that there can be two tables running.

Yeah thats previsely the issue. And while Mark has weighed in on this as a developer (the main thread that his post was taken from was meant to be a rules clarification thread) for some reason its not an official ruling and because he isnt one of the "PFS Official Rules Guys" the Venture Captain is ruling it as RAW that the Base Form evolutions add to the evolutions under the subtype.

My concern is that since Mark has already posted something, the Official PFS devs will just consider the issue closed without ever weighing in.

The Base Form that you reffer to is the Base Form section listed under each Subtype. This lists the specific evolutions that apply to each Base Form available to the Subtype in question. For instance, the Angel subtype lists

"Base Form(s): Biped (limbs [arms], limbs [legs], slam). Base Evolutions: At 1st level, angel eidolons gain the resistance (acid) and resistance (cold) evolutions. They also gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against poison."

So if you select the Biped base form for the Angel, you get Limbs (arms), Limbs (legs) and a Slam attack.

The confusion I have comes from the fact that the Biped, Quadraped, Serpentine, etc. are listed as Base Forms. Under the Biped Base Form it lists claws as another free evolution. So does the Biped Angel get claws as well as the double Limbs and Slam attack.

Now the Devil Eidolon that has the Biped base form lists claws as a free evolution under the Devil subtype.

So does the Angel also get claws? And if so, why are claws listed as free evolution for Devils?

And I would really like an offical ruling on this if possible.

Does an eidolon gain the evolutions listed on the Base Forms in addition to its subtype? This is to say does the Base Form of Biped grant Elemental Eidolons the claw evolution? Or does the Serpentine Base Form grant the Azata a Climb Speed?

I am very new to online play. Im interested in getting into a group. I tried the recruitment page but every thing seems to fill up way too fast. Anyone have any suggestions?

I would like to play if possible.

The Surprise Round states:

If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

So what I am wondering is if the Surprise Round is a specific window of combat?

The way it looks combat has three windows

Initiative: Roll to see who goes first

Surprise Round: Determine which creatures, if any, are aware of the others and if all are surprised or none are that window is skipped.

Combat: In initiative order players and NPCs take actions until combat is resolved

Also what happens if there is someone who always acts in the surprise round? For instance a Divination Wizard.

This may be a dead topic, but according to RAW the Phantom may deliver a touch attack as an immediate action. The immediate action happens in the swift action time frame which happens in the free action time frame, with the restriction that you may only take one swift action per turn and if you take an immediate action you cannot take a swift action on your next turn and must wait until after your turn to make another immediate action.

That means that a Phantom can deliver a touch attack and still make a full-round attack.

Also, if a spell allows you to touch up to 6 targets, the Phantom can do that as well as an immediate action if all of the targets are within melee range.

Is there a rule that states that items worn by a corporeal creature drop if the wearer becomes incorporeal? I dont see it anywhere in the rules and its not a result that is listed under Incorporeal in the Spiritualist Phantom description.

I always assumed that it worked like polymorph and the items changed with you.

All I can find is that the items fall off if the Phantom is returned to the Spiritualists mind. The thing about the items seems assumptive.

I dont know that I can say I have had a borked character. I try to build for maximum effectiveness.. . .Until recently that is.

I play in PFS and recently we started doing dungeon scenarios. I started with a level 1 rogue. In PFS that meant I got shot alot and I really wasnt able to do what I wanted with the character.

After the initial session I had designed a kick ass fighter for my son and a truly epic ranged archer for another player. This archer was so good that I was seriously envious that I wasnt going to play it.

So that left me. It occured to me that another heavy hitter wasnt really necessary. I decided instead to play a character that was more "fun" oriented.

I am playing a Kitsune Spiritualist (Fractured Mind). The short version of the back story is that she was horribly bullied as she was growing up and her mind snapped. The phantom doesnt fully manifest but has influenced her to take on the role of superhero. She has a +1 to hit at level 3 due to a gimped str stat and no PBS or Precise Shot for ranged attacks. Mainly she uses the Intimidate skill focus granted by the phantom to cause enemies to become shaken and Aid Other in combat to grant an ally a bonus to hit or AC.

Recently, we were fighting Teiflings and one of them cast Darkness. No one had darkvision. But the Phantom did. In a situation wherein no one could see it, the phantom manifested and laid waste to the enemies that were still attacking us. Once finished the phantom returned to the Spiritualists mind and she resumed her ineptitude.

Eventually the character will take Fox Shape and the Phantom will be the character for all intents and purposes.

I purposely took a gimped class and am refraining from using it to its full potential for the sake of RP.

Bump

The racial trait isnt legal in PFS but the Feat is. Eventually I will probably pick up cure serious wounds, but wand of cure light will probably do the heavy lifting. Between 2 and 5 the Phantom will remain in the characters head and shouldnt be manifested.

Hi, folks. This build is a bit different. I am looking for it to be an effective melee/debuffer. But I already have a couple of team-carrying builds and I wanted this to be a bit more of a fun RP character. Also this is for PFS so any suggestions will need to follow those guide lines.

My Spiritualist is a Kitsune named Ryosei who was mercilessly picked on by the other children of her village. They would often hold "Fox Hunts" wherein Ryosei would be hounded and herded like an animal and then beaten once cornered. Everyday was a new experience in terror. That is until one day something happened. During a particularly brutal session that involved the village children holding Ryosei down and pulling the fur from her tail in clumps, she gave into her fear and hopelessness. Secretly, she prayed to Daikitsu to let them kill her this time. It was at this point that she felt her mind being shoved aside and with a bone chilling scream power flooded out of her and Nightfox was born.

Ryosei now uses her new-found ability in the style similar to that of a comic book hero. (Think Batman if Bruce Wayne was completely inept and terrified of everything.) She has trouble manifesting the phantom, but she still wants to hide from the world. To that end she currently dons the black silk clothes of the Nightfox and the stylized fox mask and heads out into the night (or dungeon) in defense of the innocent. Ineffective though she may be.

Eventually, Ryosei will take the feat Fox Shape and assume the form of the small animal and let the Phantom have free reign. For now though, the Phantom resides in her head and will only manifest under the most extreme conditions

Again this is mainly a fun RP character so Im not looking to make the character "broken". But even though its handicapped, I would like to make it as cool as possible.

Ryosei level 2 Kitsune Spiritualist (Fractured Mind) CG
Initiative +9, Perception +7
AC 13, Touch 13, FF 10 (+3 Dex)
Fort 5, Reflex 3, Will 4
Hp 19
Speed 30'
Melee: Light Mace +0 (1d6-1/x2)
Bite (if in true form) +0 (1d4-1/x2)
Skills: Bluff +8, Intimidate +11 (+8 if the Phantom manifests), Knowledge (Nature) +5, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +8 (+5 if the Phantom manifests)
Feats: Improved Initiative
Traits: Seeker, Reactionary
Spells: 0-lvl- Message, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Telekinetic Projectile (1d6), Daze
1-lvl- Mage Armor, Sheild, Cause Fear

Str 8 (-2 Kitsune) Dex 16 (+2 Kitsune) Con 14 Int 12 Wis 13 Cha 16 (+2 Kitsune)

The Nightfox (if it needs to manifest)
Outsider Phantom (Fear) Level 2
Initiative +2, Perception +5
AC 16, Touch 12, FF 14 (+2 Dex, +4 NA)
Fort +1, Reflex +5, Will +3
HP 11
Speed 30'
Melee: Slam Attack +4 (1d6+1/x2) Horrifying Strike (Will vs. DC 13 Shaken)
Slam Attack +4 (1d6+1/x2) Horrifying Strike (Will vs. DC 13 Shaken)
Skills: Bluff +7, Intimidate +7, Perception +5, Stealth +9
Feats: Weapon Finesse (1), Stealthy (Bonus)

The Nightfox appears as a slight figure clad in black silk clothing and cape with a cowl shaped to look like the muzzle of a fox.

So I am basically looking for ideas for Feats and Spells for the Spiritualist to help augment the Phantom. They should be non-combat, or atleast minimal combat, as Ryosei is a terrible fighter and not very capable.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read it out.

Im rather new to Pathfinder and have never played a play-by-post. Is there still room and howndo I apply?

Can a spell inscribed on armor be given permanence? For instance, could the armor be inscribed with permanent fly?

The spell Suggestion reads:

You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.

The suggested course of activity can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do. You can instead specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. If the condition is not met before the spell duration expires, the activity is not performed.

A very reasonable suggestion causes the save to be made with a penalty (such as –1 or –2).

In a recent session, an NPC used this power against our Paladin and gave him the suggestion "Protect me!"

There was another enemy there, and so the Paladin attacked the other enemy thinking that that he was protecting the first NPC from the second one.

Our tank, who was in possession of a cursed sword, was also hit with the Suggestion. When she failed the Suggestion save, she also had to save against the sword attempting to dominate her. She failed both rolls and then attacked the Paladin.

I argued that the suggestion first wouldnt motivate an attack (because of the whole "danger negates spell thing) and second as soon as the Paladin was in danger from the other attack, the spell would negate.

The GM told me that if I argued about it anymore I would ejected from the group, and then allowed the Paladin a saving throw to shake off the effects.

My question is would a person under Suggestion be motivated to attack anyone, and once combat starts would the Suggestion continue to effect the character?

Thankyou for you answers.

Super great guide. Thanks for the work you put in. I noticed that Extra Evolution is not only in the guide but in purple. Everywhere I look it seems that the Synth is not allowed to take this. Is there a difinitive word on this?

Thanks for the input. There is alot to consider. The 14 con would help for fort checks. Might make it a better choice. I am inclining to agree with you about the Wis stat. She's going to be a ranged character, so I dont really want her squeaking as loud as she can and then jumping in. Sorry about all of the Trait questions. They seem really good and I want to play with them. I just need to be able to reference them if challenged.

I had a couple of other questions about gear. Mainly opinion stuff.

I noticed that you went with a +2 composite longbow (str 1). Any particular reason you added the extra +1 instead of an energy damage? (like 1d6 fire)?

Also I noticed that you only have 3 1st level spells and 2 2nd level spells. With the Cha modifier at +4 shouldnt you be able to get 6 firsts and 5 seconds?

Spells are kind of a new thing to me and Im still getting a handle on them.

BTW Nargemm, I was wondering about the point allocation on the stats.

I went 14 (5) str, 16 (10) dex, 12 (2) con, 12 (2) int, 7 (-4) wis,

16 (10) cha (25 pts)

So after racial mods it 12 str, 18 dex, 12 con, 12 int, 7 wis, and 18 cha

with putting attributes into dex twice and the headband I get 20 in dex and cha.

Im -2 on wisdom checks, but there are only a couple of skills that I notice it on as the racial traits and Divine Grace handle the Saves.

I did notice that the 14 con gives +2 hp per HD and the Favored Class is used to increase skill points for +9 skill points.

However, with a con of 12 and an int of 12 and using the Favored Class for hp the net result is the same. +2 hp/hd and +9 skill points. Being that int is at 12 it does bump my int based skills. Admittedly, there are not many. Is there another advantage for the way you have the points allocated?

This page is what you want. These are traits, and if you're unfamiliar with them, Pathfinder characters choose two traits to begin with at level 1. They cannot be the same type of trait (IE you cannot have two combat or two religion traits, but you can have one combat and one religion trait).

Wow cool list. What book is this out of? This is literally the first time I have seen these traits.

Odd. I'm still not seeing things like deadeye bowman and seeker. Am I missing something?

Where do the special traits come from? I can't find them anywhere.

Well I was thinking of taking Leadership (which fits with the theme) to get an archer cohort. That way I'm not wasting my auras. I think there are other ranged players as well. Free precise shot it really good, and it puts me on the same feat lvl as a human.

Now that that is out of the way.

I like Nagemm's build. The 12 str and 18 char are probably the result of the racial traits from the halfling race (which is thematic)

I was looking at build where the guy had buffed his dex to 26 to get a +8 dex bonus. Then I noticed that he was using +5 mithral chainmail. In his summary, he lists his toHit dex bonus at the full plus 8. Is this possible? I know mithral increases max dex bonus, but I thought it was only by 2.

Actually, that was a noob moment. For some reason I had thought I was regulated to the sling.

Another question I have is about bucklers. If I attack on a round, I lose the buckler AC even with a bow right?

Kind of a theme toon. I wanted to play a dps hafling pally. Her holy bond would be a bow. Was thinking of aoe buff and debuff spells. Im a bit of a noob (if the post didn't give it away). I'm interested in suggested feats and spells. I want her to do as much damage as possible and be be so cute YOU COULD JUST DIE!.

We're building at lvl 9 and are using Epic point buy. Any suggestions would be awesome.

Thanks.

I appreciate your advice. Thing is the character is already in use and doesn't have the stats for a summoner. That might be something to think about for the next campaign, though.

Yeah I looked at multiattack. My GM is a letter of the law kind of GM. So with the Half-Orc not having 3 permanent natural weapons I doubt he'd go for it. But is there a good way to get horns? And what would the damage on the kicks be?

The traits were just the standard for Half-orcs. +2 to one stat, darkvison, +2 to intimidate and the ability to stay up for oje round after hitting zero hp. Basic rules setup.

Well he still has a Masterwork Great Sword 2d6 x2 on crit.

Yeah, enhancement is a concern. However, there is alot of damage enhancement builting to the Barb anyway. Greater Beast totem kicks the damage up to 1d8 per attack on the claws. Raging Brutality grants a Con bonus each attack. Greater Rage and Mighty Rage grant better Str and Con bonuses. Raging Vitality grants a Con bonus which works with Raging Brutality. Basically, until he hits lvl 16 (attack bonus-wise) it would he better for him to use the natural weapons as opposed to his great sword. And by then we should be able to afford things like the Amulet of Mighty Fists and such. I was hoping to give him a tail or something to get him that fourth attack.

My son and I are in our first Pathfinder Campaign. I have some RPG experience (no pun) with stuff like D20 system D&D so I have been helping him maximize his character. He is playing a Half-Orc Barbarian. We decided to follow the Beast Totem path to ultimately give him Pounce at 10. Almost by accident, we discovered the power of natural attacks. At level 4 he now has Lesser Beast Totem giving him two primary claws attacks at 1d6 each plus his Str bonus. He also has Animal Fury which gives him a secondary Bite attack at BAB -5 doing 1d4 dmg plus half str bonus.

So now I have two questions. First, if he takes something like razortusk, can he get a second bite attack?
And second, is there a good way to get him horns or a tail to give him a fourth attack?

Remember, I am new to pathfinder so any suggestions would appreciated, as would the refference to the handbook the powers and such come from.

Thanks in advance.

No magic means no arcane casters and no spells. Clerics and Paladins will have limited access to Divine spells, but mainly for healing. We will be questing for magic gear.

Im new to PF and I am joining a newbie group. We are using only the core rules. My DM wants this to be a traditional all-out rules breaking hack and slash power game. I want to play a rogue. I need help coming up with ideas for builds. My goal is to create a character that focuses on stealth, speed, and accuracy for combat. I will also be doing the traditional picking locks and finding traps, although that will be a much smaller part of the game. This is supposed to be a 2-dimensional game with heavy combat focus. Anyway, we are starting with a 25 point build core rules only and no magic. Only good alignments. I am looking for help with building a toon that can hit multiple times per round and abuse the hell out of sneak attack as well as use speed to mitigate enemy attacks. I have a rulebook that I am reading, but there is alot there. I am pretty ignorant about the game so please avoid using abbreviations.

Thanks in advance.