Here is the sum total of what I know about the GLP combo:
"Grit, luck, and panache represent three different means by which heroes can gain access to the same heroic pool... For characters with a mix of grit, luck, and panache, they pool the three resources together into a combined pool. For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain luck points in place of grit or panache points, and vice versa.
A luck user does not count as a grit or panache user to satisfy feat prerequisites. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed’s level requirement."
I've never built a gunslinger, a swashbuckler, or any luck-dependent PC. My thought is a halfling could be a good race candidate for the cool luck stuff they get. Is there a way to build a viable PC with a terrific common pool to fuel abilities?
J
Investigator, if you bend the rules a little bit to stack the Sleuth and Steel Hound archetypes. They both replace Swift Alchemy, but they both are replacing it with Deeds... two from Sleuth, and only one from Steel Hound... a Gunslinger gets three Deeds at level 3, so let the two archetypes stack [giving the Investigator three Deeds at level 4 in place of Swift Alchemy].
Anyways, you get Luck from Sleuth, and Amateur Gunslinger/Grit from Steel Hound... a level of Picaroon Swashbuckler gets you Panache, and some other fun stuff.
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(Those who use panache and luck do not gain twice their Charisma bonus in their pool.)
Since you can't triple stack one ability mod to your pool I wouldn't dip for a larger pool. What stacks is the way to regain points, and is actually more valuable than just a larger pool.
A Sleuth gets Luck back through nat 20s on (some) Knowledge/Sense Motive and 6+ on Inspiration checks.
A Sleuth with one level in Guiding Blade Swash gets back Luck through the usual ways, and through crits and whenever an ally drops a foe. You should be able to spam Sleuth deeds at least with double the rate as a single-classed Sleuth.
That seems like a reasonable idea, Wonderstell. The biggest problem with this build is that Sleuth is a really terrible archetype. Awful. Taking one level in it for the pool and abilities is reasonable, but it should not be an investigator build.
I've never played a swashbuckler, so maybe it could be a swash build, I don't know how to rate it. I do want a viable build.
J
So switch Archeologist Bard in place of Sleuth... as the Archeologist Bard is NOT a really terrible archetype.
I only mentioned Sleuth on the condition that you are allowed to combine it with Steel Hound... which you're not legally allowed to do, at all. Sleuth is a really terrible archetype, so bending the rules to allow it to stack with Steel Hound is pretty reasonable. The fact that both archetypes modify the same thing for Deeds makes it a perfect combination if you just stack all those together at that level. It's literally that simple. But still illegal.
Sleuth sucks. It really is THAT bad. Even mixed with Steel Hound, it STILL sucks. Again, the only reason I even mentioned it was to get Grit and Luck together in a single go. If you don't stack the two archetypes and get both pools together, then it's not worth considering... at all... ever.
I even have one, and I use him as an NPC because he's not very impressive... his name is Maverick, and he has a gambling problem. Anyways, his build looks something like this:
Sleuth-Steel Hound Investigator 9/
Maverick Gunslinger 4
Investigator 1-4 (for studied combat)
Gunslinger 5-8 (for the bonus feat)
Investigator 9-13
1. Point Blank Shot
2B. Amateur Gunslinger/Extra Grit
3. Precise Shot
5. Weapon Focus
7B. Dazzling Display
7B. Improved Unarmed Strike
7. Ranged Study
8B. Rapid Shot
9. Snap Shot
11. Far Shot
13. Weapon Trick
At 13:
BAB +10
Base saves +7/+10/+7
I've toyed around with the concept since I played Carrion Crown with my Archaeologist Bard. Amateur Gunslinger. Amateur Swashbuckler. Sleuth archetype Investigator. It was 8 levels of Bard and 4 levels of Investigator. It worked out fairly well and being able to Run Like Hell* certainly saved my life more than once (and two of the party member's I was carrying away unconscious).
I've since refined the character build a bit, since we never got beyond 13th level, and if playing him again, I would change his approach a little:
8 Bard (Archaeologist)
4 Monk (Kata Master, Master of Many Styles, Monk of the Sacred Mountain)
4 Investigator (Sleuth, Cryptid Scholar, Reckless Epicurean)
4 Eldritch Knight [to fill out that 16 BAB and get 4th level spells)
Variant Multiclass Magus
Amateur Gunslinger to get the ability to recover Grit as a gunslinger.
Kata Master Monk to get Panache and ability to recover it as a Swashbuckler.
Sleuth Investigator to get Luck and recover it like, well, a Sleuth Investigator.
VMC Magus to get Flamboyant Arcana (parry/riposte) and Ki Arcana to link your Arcane Pool to your Ki Pool to your Grit/Luck/Panache Pool in various ways. Fueling Forgotten Trick (rogue/ninja) trick gained through Archaeologist talents with your Arcane Pool or Grit/Luck/Panache pool is hilarious.
The other archetypes are to clear out many redundant abilities and add other options to boost attacks, saves, teamwork options, multiple styles. You even get access to Bardic Masterpieces (since Archaeologist's Luck still counts as Bardic Performance) and you can trade off spells known to get them, and use favored class options to buy those levels back.
Only feats you really need are: Lingering Performance, Amateur Gunslinger, and Weapon Finesse if you are making a Dexterity build.
That seems like a reasonable idea, Wonderstell. The biggest problem with this build is that Sleuth is a really terrible archetype. Awful. Taking one level in it for the pool and abilities is reasonable, but it should not be an investigator build.
In that case I propose you skip Sleuth. It is the only source of a Luck Pool which is why I used it as an example, but it doesn't provide you with anything worth the level investment.
A build with actual synergy would be the following:
Ratfolk (or human with Racial Heritage).
1 Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse (B)
2
3 Slashing Grace
4 Combat Reflexes (B)
5 Weapon Trick: One-Handed
6
Disrupting Counter (Ex): At 3rd level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe. This attack of opportunity can be made with either a dagger or a starknife. If the attack hits, the opponent takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls until the end of its turn. This deed replaces kip-up.
Daring Adjacent Shot: The first time each round the gulch gunner makes a ranged firearm attack against an adjacent foe and provokes an attack of opportunity, she regains 1 grit point. Making an adjacent firearm attack against a helpless or unaware creature or on a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the gulch gunner’s character level does not restore grit, nor do ranged attacks using some ability that prevents the gulch gunner from provoking an attack of opportunity. This ability replaces the ability to regain grit from a critical hit with a firearm.
Flash and Shock (Ex): At 1st level, the gulch gunner can take advantage of the flash and sound of a firearm to throw off an attacker’s aim at close range. When she makes an attack against a foe within her firearm’s first range increment, she may spend 1 grit point to gain a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against that opponent until the beginning of her next turn. She can only perform this deed while wearing medium, light, or no armor, and while carrying no more than a light load. This deed replaces the deadeye deed.
*****
Flying Blade gets the very good Disruptive Counter deed at lv 3, but their inherently worse crit range (must use a dagger or starknife) makes Panache sustain harder. Do note that you actually want enemies to attack you so that you can trigger the free AoO (which imposes a -4 attack penalty on the enemy).
With a level in Gulch Gunner you can safely dump Charisma in favor of Wisdom, have an additional way to regain Panache every round with a Buckler Pistol (which you can use to trigger Disruptive Counter), and have an additional deed to further boost your AC by +4. Later on you'd want to buy a Shadowshooting Buckler Gun.
So use your last iterative to trigger Daring Adjacent Shot and get panache, spend panache on Disrupting Counter and/or Flash and Shock, and get way high AC in addition to all your AoOs.
Musket Master 5 / Virtuous Bravo X
It scales your Hero Pool, as well as a lot of your class features. You can gain a lot of deeds that all help as well
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VMC Magus to get Flamboyant Arcana (parry/riposte) and Ki Arcana to link your Arcane Pool to your Ki Pool to your Grit/Luck/Panache Pool in various ways. Fueling Forgotten Trick (rogue/ninja) trick gained through Archaeologist talents with your Arcane Pool or Grit/Luck/Panache pool is hilarious.
This sounds really cool but I feel I'm missing a step here? Ki Arcana lets you use arcane pool and ki pool interchangeably, but I'm missing how you link your ki pool to your GLP pool? Kata Master archetype only does that in a very limited way...
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Variel, my master of all things Panache, had levels in Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, Kata Master-MoMS Monk, Hooded Champion Ranger, and Kensai Magus... he could use Panache with his Rapier, unarmed strikes, and his bow. Variel could trade Ki and Panache, as well as Arcane Pool and Ki. He was alright. Stopped playing him after he went levels 10-11 without taking any damage. It was boring being invincible.
This sounds really cool but I feel I'm missing a step here? Ki Arcana lets you use arcane pool and ki pool interchangeably, but I'm missing how you link your ki pool to your GLP pool? Kata Master archetype only does that in a very limited way...
Not missing a step, I just failed to format my sentence properly. I meant to imply that Arcane Pool points could fuel the Forgotten Trick OR the Grit/Panache/Luck pool (as though Ki), not that Grit/Panache/Luck could fuel the Ki Requirements of Forgotten Trick.
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Not missing a step, I just failed to format my sentence properly. I meant to imply that Arcane Pool points could fuel the Forgotten Trick OR the Grit/Panache/Luck pool (as though Ki)
Yeah, but how does Ki fuel GPL? I'm not seeing a feat or archetype that does that, except Kata Master (which can only "treat ki points as panache points for any swashbuckler deed gained through this archetype").
Yeah, but how does Ki fuel GPL? I'm not seeing a feat or archetype that does that, except Kata Master (which can only "treat ki points as panache points for any swashbuckler deed gained through this archetype").
You've found the way Ki fuels G/P/L. It is limited.
Kata Master gets Derring-Do, Dodging Panache, and Menacing Swordplay by the time they get the ability to trade Ki and Panache... it was especially useful for Variel, who gave up Derring-Do and Dodging Panache for the Vengeful Heart deed of renown.
Yeah, but how does Ki fuel GPL? I'm not seeing a feat or archetype that does that, except Kata Master (which can only "treat ki points as panache points for any swashbuckler deed gained through this archetype").You've found the way Ki fuels G/P/L. It is limited.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that in your earlier post you called out using Flamboyant Arcana + Ki Arcana… which on its own doesn’t let you use them with Grit/Panache/Luck since Flamboyant Arcana explicitly states it cannot be used to fuel deeds from other classes nor can your G/P/L be used to fuel the deeds from this class… which leaves having to have some way to specifically use Ki as G/P/L as the link, but the only way to do that is limited in that Kata master only lets you use it as Panache and only for deeds gained through Kata Master… with the build you outlined that means, Derring-do, Dodging Panache, & Menacing Swordplay only… and of course Ki and Arcane Pool fuel Parry & Repost… but this exchange is one way and very limited.
...but this exchange is one way and very limited.
Yes, it is limited. And its the only way in which it can happen that I am aware of.
Also, consider that Flamboyant Arcana also grants you Derring-Do on its own, so while you might have two versions of the same ability, you can choose to use Ki/Arcane Points OR Panache to full at least one of them.