Do you feel treasure vault introduced minor power creep?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Farien wrote:
Prismatic Sphere definitely doesn't move around with the caster. Its area is a burst that is set to a particular point on the ground.

very good point

prismatic shield follow player and only last one round


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25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:
graystone wrote:
25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

there is no sphere of wind yet

only level 9 prismatic sphere

WALL OF WIND, 3RD LEVEL... Covers the whole party. NO NEED for a sphere, as the sphere is more of a limitation than a benefit. So, yeah... 5th level for what you said: "but ability to ignore arrow and bolt is not new just extremely high level".

wall of wind is not a emanation or follow character around

prismatic wall are level 7 while prismatic sphere are level 9

when sphere of wind are added to the game it will likely be level 5

The prismatic spells are completely irrelevant here IMO. What we have is a condensed personal wall of wind, not a prismatic spell with most of it's effects not working.


graystone wrote:
25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:
graystone wrote:
25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

there is no sphere of wind yet

only level 9 prismatic sphere

WALL OF WIND, 3RD LEVEL... Covers the whole party. NO NEED for a sphere, as the sphere is more of a limitation than a benefit. So, yeah... 5th level for what you said: "but ability to ignore arrow and bolt is not new just extremely high level".

wall of wind is not a emanation or follow character around

prismatic wall are level 7 while prismatic sphere are level 9

when sphere of wind are added to the game it will likely be level 5

The prismatic spells are completely irrelevant here IMO. What we have is a condensed personal wall of wind, not a prismatic spell with most of it's effects not working.

personal wall of wind should not be considered equal to wall of wind

the same way prismatic wall are not equal to prismatic sphere


25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

personal wall of wind should not be considered equal to wall of wind

the same way prismatic wall are not equal to prismatic sphere

Why? The sphere allows you to "pass through the wall and ignore its effects." So that means it's pure bonus. A wall of wind all around you blocks both directions. As such, it balances out unlike the sphere.


that is certainly a shocking question

will leave it to someone with more patience


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
graystone wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Wand of choking mists completely shuts down pretty much every caster ever.
I don't have any idea what this is/what it does so I can't say anything about it... *looks at pdf release date*

Depending on wand level, it casts either obscuring mist or fog cloud. Either way, people in the area must hold their breath or immediately suffocate.

Cast that against a breather who is unaware of the effects, and they basically lose consciousness immediately and die. Even someone who is aware that you probably should not be breathing "the black stuff" it means you can't breath and must hold your breath, which means you can't talk, which means no verbal components. All you need is for your fighter friend with Blindfight to tackle the guy and keep them in the area of effect and you've got one shut down soon-to-be-very-dead caster.

As a side note, this is how my party totally made a complete joke out of the oft-feared grikkitogs: they drowned them in their cavern with control water.

Follow up with something like hideous laughter, and suddenly the black cloud is a save or die scenario. Take out any breathing boss in a one-two punch. Oh, they passed their save? Hit 'em with HL again. It's low level and scrolls are cheap.

This is how players cake walk adventure paths.


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Ravingdork wrote:

Depending on wand level, it casts either obscuring mist or fog cloud. Either way, people in the area must hold their breath or immediately suffocate.

Cast that against a breather who is unaware of the effects, and they basically lose consciousness immediately and die. Even someone who is aware that you probably should not be breathing "the black stuff" it means you can't breath and must hold your breath, which means you can't talk, which means no verbal components. All you need is for your fighter friend with Blindfight to tackle the guy and keep them in the area of effect and you've got one shut down soon-to-be-very-dead caster.

As a side note, this is how my party totally made a complete joke out of the oft-feared grikkitogs: they drowned them in their cavern with control water.

Follow up with something like hideous laughter, and suddenly the black cloud is a save or die scenario. Take out any breathing boss in a one-two punch. Oh, they passed their save? Hit 'em with HL again. It's low level and scrolls are cheap.

This is how players cake walk adventure paths.

This is how smart players should make APs look. Especially in situations where you get to set up first against enemies that are just sitting in a room waiting to become XP.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Follow up with something like hideous laughter, and suddenly the black cloud is a save or die scenario. Take out any breathing boss in a one-two punch. Oh, they passed their save? Hit 'em with HL again. It's low level and scrolls are cheap.

Okay but at that point you're having multiple party members work together, burning through multiple consumables, and relying on a bit of GM favor in order to kill a boss in potentially 5-10 rounds

Which starts sounding less like a cakewalk and more like more work than just actually fighting the enemy.


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If you interpret Hideous Laughter as instantly taking out anyone in water, then this item is pretty much inline with Aqueous Orb.

Also of note, casters are probably best equipped to deal with suffocation as they can cast Air Bubble as a reaction.


Onkonk wrote:

If you interpret Hideous Laughter as instantly taking out anyone in water, then this item is pretty much inline with Aqueous Orb.

Also of note, casters are probably best equipped to deal with suffocation as they can cast Air Bubble as a reaction.

A monk can do this solo at level 11+. Open with a haste wand or spell turn 1, haste strike + mask of uncanny breath (new item) reaction into suffocation wand round 2. As a 1/day death sentence, it's fairly effective. All you need is druid archetype casting. None of this requires a save at any point so it's pretty easy to pull off, and if you miss the hasted attack, you still have the entire rest of your turn as normal and can keep trying on subsequent rounds so there's little opportunity cost.


tentacle potion finally allow tail to hold item

sourian spike give precise scent

spellstriker staff get shifting

intentional or unintentional quicken doesn't limited to a few specific action

paizo are loosening a lot of long restricted option

treasure vault does look like the most adventurous rulebook so far


gesalt wrote:
Onkonk wrote:

If you interpret Hideous Laughter as instantly taking out anyone in water, then this item is pretty much inline with Aqueous Orb.

Also of note, casters are probably best equipped to deal with suffocation as they can cast Air Bubble as a reaction.

A monk can do this solo at level 11+. Open with a haste wand or spell turn 1, haste strike + mask of uncanny breath (new item) reaction into suffocation wand round 2. As a 1/day death sentence, it's fairly effective. All you need is druid archetype casting. None of this requires a save at any point so it's pretty easy to pull off, and if you miss the hasted attack, you still have the entire rest of your turn as normal and can keep trying on subsequent rounds so there's little opportunity cost.

The mask is definitely an uncanny item =^)

Honestly without doing any cheese just seems kinda nuts to me? A -6 to AC to the next person who attacks the target? Crazy


Onkonk wrote:

The mask is definitely an uncanny item =^)

Honestly without doing any cheese just seems kinda nuts to me? A -6 to AC to the next person who attacks the target? Crazy

It only lasts until end of your current turn, so it only really sets up your second flurry hit or a 3rd attack at full MAP. Or weird nonsense like this.


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Gauntlet Bow is secretly kinda mindblowing. Drifters and Dual Pistoleroes get to have a free hand while also having 2 'guns' for an always on fake-out, use a shield, or even get another f%&#ing gun for the image of wielding 3 f%~$ing guns.

Oh god it even has parry, this thing is amazing


Gobhaggo wrote:

Gauntlet Bow is secretly kinda mindblowing. Drifters and Dual Pistoleroes get to have a free hand while also having 2 'guns' for an always on fake-out, use a shield, or even get another f!*@ing gun for the image of wielding 3 f!!*ing guns.

Oh god it even has parry, this thing is amazing

If my rogue wasn't already carrying 13 weapons, I would definitely carry one for the parry trait alone. I wouldn't use it too often, but just having the option is very nice.

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