Answer: none of the above
I'm assuming your stats will look like 10/14/12/10/14/18
The best archetype you can take off the bat as a bard with at least 14 dex is swashbuckler, and then take the one for all feat. Circumstance bonuses to attacks are in short supply and one for all lets you add between +1 and +4 as you progress to higher levels. It also lets you add it to any skill check which is great out of combat.
Alternatively, gunslinger for the fake out feat. Same reasoning, but only a +2, attacks only and doesn't cost an action.
For blasting, honestly I'd say don't bother. Grab calm emotions to get some mooks to stop taking hostile actions until your martials finish executing everyone else. If you need damage, you have a couple of fortitude blasts like sanguine mist or vampiric exsanguination. Animated assault and IRT have bad scaling and shouldn't be used.
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I really don't think that someone coming here for advice on how to build a fairly standard character concept should be told that their concept isn't going to work. That isn't accurate and it isn't helpful.
They did say to suggest archetypes he might have missed that give the most bang for their buck. Given that, as a caster, they needs a reliable reaction and given that chasing +1s is of paramount importance, either of those two will bring more value.
Some other options include
Captivator for more slots and illusion support.
[Uncommon] shadowcaster isn't good until 10, but is a good cheat to expand their spell selection with shadow reservoir.
Psychic is a pretty loaded dedication feat which works well with the restriction lifted.
But medic and cavalier are excellent choices as is blessed one. They just aren't as impactful as giving a martial a better hit/crit rate. With the restriction on feats lifted, there's more than enough space to grab them all eventually.
They did say to suggest archetypes he might have missed that give the most bang for their buck. Given that, as a caster, they needs a reliable reaction and given that chasing +1s is of paramount importance, either of those two will bring more value.
Which is great for an individual character optimization point of view.
But none of that is going to help the character become a better in-combat healer. Which is what ThatGuyDM is asking for due to party synergy needs.
Personally I think the Medic archetype is best for this particular character. Master proficiency in Medicine will get Battle Medicine available at once per hour instead of once per day. The free Stride from Doctor's Visitation really helps with action usage in combat. And Treat Condition and Holistic Care can handle a lot more conditions that Advanced First Aid is able to.
For out of combat healing, Bard already can get Hymn of Healing. Getting Lay on Hands would be better in combat, but not much better than Battle Medicine. Though it doesn't have a character target usage limit.
Another option for a reaction similar to the Champion reaction would be Amulet's Abeyance from Thaumaturge archetype and the Amulet Implement. Best used if you also use weapons though so that you can get usage from Glimpse Vulnerability.
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Trying to go to far into weapons as a primary caster is generally a mistake. It can be a decent third action in some cases, but as a Bard you have plenty of third actions already.
Medic is pretty much the classic "I'd like to heal more" archetype, and PF2 is good at delivering on promises like that. If that simply isn't enough, then it might be worth trying to stack Blessed One on top of it, but as a Bard, you already have good places to use your focus points.
I wouldn't worry about armor unless it becomes a problem. With three melee characters, you'll probably be able to stay out of melee yourself for the most part. (If the investigator isn't planning on going melee, they're doing something wrong. A Marshal in a party with a Bard is already a bit weak for the early levels. At that point, they either need to be right up there next to other melee allies or have other ranged martials to buff, and this one certainly won't have the latter.)
For blast, I got nothing for you, past the standard "objectively better Electric Arc is objectively better" suggestion. You'd have to get that from your ancestry one way or the other, though - from any of a number of ancestries if your GM agrees that innate spells get to function off of your spellcasting proficiency of choice (a commonly but not universally held position) or from human for Adapted Cantrip if not. Sorry about that, but in-depth knowledge of spell lists really isn't my strong suit.
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Bard is very solid all by itself, and I would suggest that you go with your strengths there, rather than getting into shenanigans... and one for all on a bard is definitely shenanigans.
That's not to say that it won't work... but there are a lot of things that work in this game, and "just play a bard straight" is very much one of them. Finicky builds like MC to psychic or MC to swashbuckler are investing meaningful resources for thin returns. You may technically be able to eke out a bit of extra power here or there, but it's not a huge amount, and it's often fragile - looking better on paper than in reality.
Like the swashbuckler thing - costs you two feats just to get it set up (and more feats to escape so that you can take any *other* MC). Then to use the thign, you need to spend an action, spend a reaction, and make a skill roll, to give them a +1 circumstance on one of their rolls, or more than that if you crit... and the fact that it's a "circumstance" bonus means that it's entirely useless if they already had a circumstance bonus to that thing (unless you crit and also your bonus is higher).
That's a lot of resources to stack up, and a decent number of conditionals. Now, if you have nothing to do with your reaction, and you spend a lot of turns every fight with a third action just sitting there collecting dust, and your ally doesn't really have any other source of circumstance bonuses (like, no one else is trying to aid another) then it can be potentially worthwhile... but if you go up a few more levels and discover that you now have something useful to spend those actions on, and you get access to a reaction that you actually kind of like, and one of your allies finds a way of handing out status bonuses from time to time... then very quickly those two feats you spent on unlocking All For One start looking pretty dead.
In my experience, being proactive always beats being reactive. Healing or boosting defense has its place, but your bard alone can give -1 to enemy AC through dirge and +3 to hit through all for one for a net +20% hit/crit rate to the first attack your target makes. More crits mean more damage and more knockdowns which mean more opportunity attacks on stand which mean more damage and faster kills and a dead enemy can't hurt the party. And none of that costs any of your daily resources either. You have plenty of spells for illusion control, calm emotions, slow, soothe, synesthesia, heroism, etc, etc. It's not a question of choosing what you can do, you can actually do it all if you build smart, pick good spells and manage your actions.
As a bard you're going down performance anyway so you can use lingering composition. One for all then requires diplomacy. Which leaves you with one more skill to take to legendary which can be medicine anyway. As the party medicine bot, you don't really have a choice but to get master medicine first at level 7. Then I'd boost boost performance to expert at 9 and then diplo to master at 11 and performance to master at 13. I'd priortize diplo and performance boosting items over medicine though.
Incidentally, if you're human or have adopted ancestry, you can pick up cooperative soul to put your aid checks over the top. Or, if you're worried about action economy, go with gunslinger instead for a consistent +2 with no action investment off fake out.
For psychic, I gravitate towards guidance, message and shild. All have their uses so pick what you think you'll get the most use out of.
Animal companions I like as mounts for free movement, and not much else. If you have free archetype, maybe, but I find it too feat intensive for what it gives you. I don't know your gm, but if you think you can get away with cheaping out on feat investment, go for it. For extra slots vs better battle medicine, your call on if you feel too constrained by your slots. You should have enough in the tank to get through without them, but retraining is always an option.
And yeah, I love calm emotions for making groups of mooks easier to deal with regardless of remaining hp.
I agree with Gesalt in that being proactive is usually a better strategy, but I wouldn't worry much about it, Bard's shell is super strong, so you are already set for success in that regard.
Looking at your party, I assume you have Dirge of Doom and/or Inspire Defense and plan to use them often.
If that's the case, Psychic dedication could work really well. You can get Guidance at level 2 and eventually Message at 12, which are great support focus spells (one of them a reaction, which is hard to come by as a caster). It is a bit weird to use til level 12 (when you can get the double focus point recharge), but it does a good job in general. No healing stuff here, sadly.
Also, just to get them out of the way, Blessed One and Medic are always good, regardless of character concept or build. If you don't want anything else, they are superb options (specially Medic).
Shadowcaster is decent just for Shadow Reservoir, makes you really versatile and gives you more space in your known spells for stuff you want.
Champion and Sentinel only work if you account for them from level 1. I understand that you are starting as level 8. If that's the case, they are pretty good, if not, skip them. If you happen to be an evil Bard, the evil champion reactions are priceless as a squishy caster, they make you a very undesireable target. Driving attention off you is way better than having Lay on Hands.
Another good option is Swashbuckler. One for All is amazing for CHA casters. You also get a movement boost that applies to fixed fly speeds, so you can save the money a Soaring Rune costs with that. No healing stuff here as well, tho.
Finally, Captivator is probably the best option if what you want is just more spells. They scale with your spell proficiency (they are innate) and they go up to level 9. You can also get them heightened in exchange of a feat and the level 14 sustain feat lets you do some unfair stuff. Btw, no paizo dev has confirmed it yet, but lots of people. me included, suspect that the dedication is supposed to be level 2 and not level 4 (the spellcasting feat is level 4, so you cannot pick it ever at that level, and we can be sure that that feat is supposed to be level 4 because you need it to pick captivating intensity at 6).
Long ago I wrote a Bard guide, it is mostly updated, feel free to check it if you want to go more in depth in my thoughts about the class.
Stuff
I think you missed that it is a Free Archetype game. They are not losing anything by picking all of this stuff.
I think you missed that it is a Free Archetype game. They are not losing anything by picking all of this stuff.
They're losing the FA feats that they could be spending on other things (like, say, Medic). The more healing they can pick up from archetypes, the less of it they have to take from their spell slots, which lets them do more debuffing and blasting with same.
I will admit that the Psionicist for amped Guidance is pretty darned solid, though. The only real downside is that those are focus points that you wont' be spending on Lingering Composition, and that can be well worth the trade. The fact that you make the choice to apply after you know that it will matter rather than before is pretty solid.
...though even there it's worth noting that the more people there are in the group who pick MC psionicist for amped guidance, the less it's worth. It's not likely to be an issue with the party as you describe it, but I wouldn't want more than two in a party your size.
Medic archetype is just 2 feats. They need something else.
For example, I could see something like this working in this case since they are playing with no archetype feat requirements:
Lvl 2 Medic dedication
Lvl 4 Doctor Visitation
Lvl 6 Swashbuckler dedication
Lvl 8 One for All
Lvl 10 Psychic Dedication
Lvl 12 any lvl 1 or 2 psychic feat
Lvl 14 Parallel Breakthrough (Message)
The rest could be spellcasting feats or rogue dedication for Nimble Dodge, Mobility, master reflex or extra skills (could be accelerated a bit with multitalented). I would even get the Rogue dedication stuff going earlier (either 6 or 12 maybe, and delay either Swashbuckler stuff or Message) if he wants more defenses or the skills.
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If you are of good alignment, I'd go for champion dedication. The champion reaction will contribute to the 'healing' role via damage mitigation. Also, as it is a reaction, it will not complete for your actions during your turn. As an added plus, you can wear medium armor. AC is incredibly important in pf2e. It can mean the difference between getting crit or not.
Nah, it is really good, but not that good for Bards. Thing is you sacrifice not only a reaction (not that big of a deal), but an action. That means that you can't use it in turns you want to cast a spell and use a composition cantrip (together with move + cast, those are a lot of turns). Most of the time, it is better to use a composition cantrip than getting your One for All off if you need to choose (specially if you are using Lingering Composition or Inspire Heroics). I'd say it is a "11/10" if you are a Sorcerer or an Oracle, but not for a Bard. For them it is just good.
If you have a Magus, forget anything I just said and get that One for All, though.
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Given the existence of lingering composition to ease the action economy of your composition cantrips, you can pretty easily fit one for all into your basic rotation. If you need to move you just cast guidance or shield (psi shield can target allies even unamped too), bon mot a second enemy, use a bow, activate a manifold missile wand, that sort of thing.
Skill scarcity shouldn't be an issue though. Some skills can be safely disregarded in most campaigns like crafting, stealth and survival while others are nearly required like medicine (non- combat healing), thievery (most traps) and religion (most haunts). Assuming you're playing a mostly standard campaign, there shouldn't be much issue with a little overlap, especially if you have a rogue or tome thaumaturge.
Given the existence of lingering composition to ease the action economy of your composition cantrips, you can pretty easily fit one for all into your basic rotation. If you need to move you just cast guidance or shield (psi shield can target allies even unamped too), bon mot a second enemy, use a bow, activate a manifold missile wand, that sort of thing.
Skill scarcity shouldn't be an issue though. Some skills can be safely disregarded in most campaigns like crafting, stealth and survival while others are nearly required like medicine (non- combat healing), thievery (most traps) and religion (most haunts). Assuming you're playing a mostly standard campaign, there shouldn't be much issue with a little overlap, especially if you have a rogue or tome thaumaturge.
And again, I'm not saying it is bad, it is one of the best options you can get, it is just not as mandatory as it is for the other CHA casters and definitely not as mandatory as other peopel meke it sound like it is.
It does not help you on your go off turn (big debuff + Inspire Heroics) unless you have Quickened Spell, which you can usually use for stronger stuff than that, and it does not work in the turn you are setting your Lingering performance unless you stop casting stuff (which you shouldn't unless you are completely out of range, as that usually happens during the first turn of combat).
Again, it is a good extra for Bards (I put it in the build I postes above for a reason), and usually I think all parties should have a Fake Out/One for All user if they want to optimise, I just think that in Bard's case, its better if someone else does the job instead of you so you can focus on your stuff. I think it is better to use Nimble Dodge as your reaction, fill the missing actions in your turn with Bon Mots and Demoralises and let someone else take care of One for All just so it can line up with Bard's big buff and debuff windows.
For example, what's better, have the Bard with one for all not be able to do One for All on the Synesthesia + Heroics turn or just do a Synestesia + Heroics turn, have your, let's say gunslinger use Fake Out on the Magus after doing some shooting and finish the turn with a +8/+10 to hit relatively on a Spellstrike? That sounds way better to me than just trying to do all for yourself.
Inspire heroics is a massive trap though?
Very hard DC for +2 (or +3 but your crit success rate on that is dismal) status bonus is a net gain of +1 (or +2) against the marshal aura he mentioned in his first post while one for all is a 50/50 for +1 or +3 (eventually better than a 50/50 and scales to +4) while still allowing lingering fear to provide its bonus across multiple turns.
Inspire heroics is a massive trap though?
Very hard DC for +2 (or +3 but your crit success rate on that is dismal) status bonus is a net gain of +1 (or +2) against the marshal aura he mentioned in his first post while one for all is a 50/50 for +1 or +3 (eventually better than a 50/50 and scales to +4) while still allowing lingering fear to provide its bonus across multiple turns.
A trap? Lmao.
The DC at level 11 is 33. You have 26 Performance by that point (max CHA and boosts, +2 item, +2 Virtuosistic). How is that supposed to be a hard check? You can even boost it with status bonuses or mutagens on top if you want to have an easier time.
That's 50% of succeeding and 20% of critically succeeding, 25% of getting the regular +1 at no cost and 5% of losing the focus point. Can get easily to 30% crit chance at that level with some help. It also gets better as you level, as checks become easier in general.
Marshal Aura is quite small, it will be rare for it to hit all 3 martials unless they turtle inside, which is a bad tactic most of the time.
I also think that you are forgetting that One for All affects 1 person, for 1 strike. That's it. Heroics not only affects everything, also boosts damage along the way.
As I said and I will keep saying, OfA is good on Bards, but it is better on mostly anything else that can use it.
50% success rate, 20% crit rate and the need to expend another focus point or lose actions on all subsequent turns reapplying your composition. Not to mention that 30% fail rate of literally wasting your action and accomplishing nothing. As opposed to +24 vs DC 20 for a 5% fail rate (nat 1), 20% success rate (2-5) and a 75% crit success rate (6+). With cooperative nature that jumps to a 5% fail rate and 95% crit success rate.
It'd be one thing if the aura weren't there, but +1 with a small chance of +2 to everyone for a turn plus the subsequent action loss in later turns plus a chance to totally fail in the first place isn't nearly as good as guarenteed bonuses turn after turn that stack with everything else even if it is only one attack for a single target.
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Not to mention that 30% fail rate of literally wasting your action and accomplishing nothing.
You never lose an action, though. Worst case scenario is you just apply IC/ID normally and don't spend your focus point.
Not to mention that 30% fail rate of literally wasting your action and accomplishing nothing.You never lose an action, though. Worst case scenario is you just apply IC/ID normally and don't spend your focus point.
Which in this scenario is a waste because of the marshal aura and in other scenarios means continuing to spend actions in the subsequent turns to reapply. Even when it's successful it's no different from giving yourself slowed 1 as you need to reapply the buff. +1 with the occasional +2 and the more occasional +0 over baseline for a turn at the cost of being slowed is pretty bad.
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I don't know why you are counting the aura to hit the others consistently, it will be a 10 ft aura most of the time. Even if the investigator is at melee (something that is unlikely since most people prefer to fight at range with the class) it will hit 1 other at most most of the time. Like, you can't flank a large creature and have that aura hit the other person, that's how tint it is. While it is not bad and it can help sometimes, it is no replacement.
In that last example, I'm not even particularly concerned about the aura. The baseline there is lingering inspire which is +1 for three turns for one action on one turn with a 5% fail rate (+26 vs DC 28) and a 40% chance of lasting four turns.
Heroics is +2 for one turn with a 30% chance of +1 and a 20% chance of +3. It doesn't provide bonuses on subsequent turns.
So since you have access to both, heroics is effectively only a +1 above the baseline for one turn with a 30% chance of being +0 and a 20% chance at being +2.
We all know +1s are important and we know action efficiency is important. I'm asking why you consider a +1 on one turn to be worth spending extra actions for no bonus against the baseline on subsequent turns vs achieving the baseline and handing out limited +3s on subsequent turns (+28 vs DC20) to push >50% crit rates or anything else the situation calls for since you don't need to keep recasting it.
The aura just aggravates the problem since somebody else has already invested actions into this and is buffing 2/3 of your targets to begin with. Better to set dirge instead or just start blowing through synesthesias while giving the buffed martial +15% crit through 1fA turn after turn if its a boss. Though at level 11 it might be worth using a fully upgraded bow instead since you have the proficiency for it.
Your proposed turn was Lingering Dirge from previous Turn + big debuff (like Synesthesia) + OfA.
Lingering Dirge does nothing on that turn besides making the spell land a bit easier (which can or cannot be relevant, depending on the type of spell and the monster at hand), since it a status penalty and does not stack with almost any debuff.
I propose just Dirge on the first turn + something else (move and another 1 action for example). It will still reach your turn since it cannot lower the frightened at the end of its turn.
Since lingering Dirge accounts little in this case, let's say your turn was Lingering IC and ignore that Dirge and the aura exists in both cases, easier to compare things that way.
Then it just a comparison between debuff + OfA and debuff + IH with the +1 already deployed.
OfA is a +3/+4 for a single strike. That party is going to make 5-6 of them most likely.
IH is a +1 to hit and +1 to damage to all the strikes 50% of the time and +2/+2 20% of the time (better chances if someone can spare a Guidance or an amped Guidance on you, 55/25 for success and crit in case of both).
What seems better to you, a +3/+4 to a single attack or a +1 to 5 to 6 attacks that comes with a bonus to damage on top? Once OfA can hit +4, the chances for IH look more like 20/50/30, btw.
Its not by much, but IH is better for that turn. Also, no one is stopping the martials from helping one another with one action they can spare (or them having OfA themselves or the gunslinger reaction).
As for following turns, an enemy should not have much HP after that and tbh, my biggest concern at that point wouldn't be composition cantrip uptime, but dealing with what the enemy did on its turn.
The dirge still gives it -1 to saves, -1 to its attacks and -1 to spell DCs. I suppose it's also insurance against the boss crit saving against synesthesia but that's unlikely to begin with.
But I also don't expect to settle any combat with a burst round. Not against multiple opponents obviously, but also not against solo +3 or +4 bosses particularly with how hp scaling outscales damage by a wide margin. If I were going to try that sorta thing it'd only be with a really tuned psi magus and even then, they don't have the damage to kill on-level opponents without extra support, let alone a real boss that is harder to crit and has a hundred more hp.
So yes, I'd rather a +3/+4 to my best martial's most accurate attacks over three turns and assorted debuffs to opponents than +1 to three accurate attacks and 2-3 MAP attacks for everyone for one turn with minor bonus damage on those attacks.
And as I said, I would still use Dirge at turn 1, you just don't need to Linger it as its effect will extend to turn 2 anyway.
Also I don't expect to finish boss fights at turn 2, that's just unrealistic. What I expect is to consistently chunk around half of the total HP. Most of the time I run stuff, boss is around 40-30% hp after a well done burst.
What I was saying is that after 2 rounds of taking punishment, I would worry way more about my party state than keeping composition cantrip uptime. Except in the most extreme of cases, most boss fights I GMd or played were over in 3 or 4 rounds. I'd rather pack damage at round 2 when my group is a decent HP values and not debuffed to death.
And also, remember that I'm not advocating against OfA or even trying to say that it is a bad pick for Bards, it is just not an autopick as you are selling it.
At higher levels (once it's cheap) Orchestral Brooch can boost the expected value of an Inspire Heroics. Might not affect opinions that much, but haven't seen it mentioned in the math yet.
I didn't know this gem existed, I'll mention it in my guide, thanks!
Oh, that is a neat item. A 70-80% chance to crit heroics is something to think about. Maybe even worth considering a late investment/retrain into talisman dabbler to pull it out in back to back turns in multiple combats at 16+. I'll have to give that a spin at some point.
And as I said, I would still use Dirge at turn 1, you just don't need to Linger it as its effect will extend to turn 2 anyway.
The second Dirge of Doom stops or when the enemy gets out of it, the Frightened effect wears off.
A lot of people are misplaying it, which is the main reason of its extreme popularity. When played as it should be, it's not incredible at all.
Dirge has a duration of 1 round, it is active until the beginning of your next turn. As long as the enemy doesn't end the turn further away, they should still be in range of it if they were at the time you casted it. If they are in range the moment their turn ends, frightened does not lower, extending it til the end of their next turn, which will happen after your next turn.
If a boss-type enemy takes actions to be further away from the players, I would take that as a win most of the time. Most monsters are less scary at range than at melee range.
Dirge has a duration of 1 round, it is active until the beginning of your next turn. As long as the enemy doesn't end the turn further away, they should still be in range of it if they were at the time you casted it. If they are in range the moment their turn ends, frightened does not lower, extending it til the end of their next turn, which will happen after your next turn.
No. The Frightened condition last til the end of their turn if you maintain Dirge of Doom. Otherwise it wears off at the beginning of your turn the second Dirge of Doom stops. When you have a spell with a duration, the effects wear off when the spell expires: "The duration of a spell is how long the spell effect lasts."
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Dirge has a duration of 1 round, it is active until the beginning of your next turn. As long as the enemy doesn't end the turn further away, they should still be in range of it if they were at the time you casted it. If they are in range the moment their turn ends, frightened does not lower, extending it til the end of their next turn, which will happen after your next turn.No. The Frightened condition last til the end of their turn if you maintain Dirge of Doom. Otherwise it wears off at the beginning of your turn the second Dirge of Doom stops. When you have a spell with a duration, the effects wear off when the spell expires: "The duration of a spell is how long the spell effect lasts."
" Unless specified otherwise, at the end of each of your turns, the value of your frightened condition decreases by 1." I take that as more specific than the duration clause. Frightened is a specific condition with its own rules, I don't see any reason for Dirge to work different from Aura of Despair -> Demoralize or any other similar effect. It is just overcomplicating things tbh.
" Unless specified otherwise, at the end of each of your turns, the value of your frightened condition decreases by 1." I take that as more specific than the duration clause. Frightened is a specific condition with its own rules, I don't see any reason for Aura of Despair -> Demoralize to work different than Dirge. It is just overcomplicating things tbh.
Then look at Cleansing Flame or Remove Fear and explains me that it doesn't remove the Frightened Condition when dispelling Fear because the Frightened condition is super magical and doesn't follow the rules of the game.
The rules about duration state: "The duration of a spell is how long the spell effect lasts. Spells that last for more than an instant have a Duration entry. A spell might last until the start or end of a turn, for some number of rounds, for minutes, or even longer. If a spell’s duration is given in rounds, the number of rounds remaining decreases by 1 at the start of each of the spellcaster’s turns, ending when the duration reaches 0.
Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical. For instance, a spell that creates a loud sound and has no duration might deafen someone for a time, even permanently. This deafness couldn’t be counteracted because it is not itself magical (though it might be cured by other magic, such as restore senses)."
The rule about ongoing effect is why Demoralize's Frightened Condition lasts despite having no duration. But that's not the case for Dirge of Doom. And spells like Cleansing Flames and Remove Fear counteract only the spell applying the Frightened condition because per the rules there's no need to state that it removes the Frightened condition itself as it's covered by the fact that the effect of a spell doesn't last longer than the spell itself.
And cannot Remove Fear remove the frightened effect of an Aura of Fear or Demoralize?
I interpret the "Varies" duration of the Fear spells as a "lasts as long as the condition lasts". I interpret the 1 round duration of Dirge as the duration of the effect that does not let you reduce the frightened condition.
The way I see it, Fear (and similar effects) has a duration entry so the effect can count as magic and be dispellable, on top of being affected by Remove Fear, but even then, I think how the frightened condition works normally is way more specific than the normal spell duration rules.
Look, I understand that RAW it can be read as you say, but I think there is a place to apply common sense and rule it as any other frightened interaction.
And cannot Remove Fear remove the frightened effect of an Aura of Fear or Demoralize?
It seems the answer is no.
Actually, per the rules about ongoing effect ("This deafness couldn’t be counteracted because it is not itself magical"), Remove Fear can't even remove the Frightened condition from Phantasmal Killer. The spell is quite limited.The way I see it, Fear (and similar effects) has a duration entry so the effect can count as magic and be dispellable, on top of being affected by Remove Fear, but even then, I think how the frightened condition works normally is way more specific than the normal spell duration rules.
Frightened is not the only Condition with specific ways of getting rid of it. If you are Confused for one round, you allow both the specific way of getting rid of the Condition (getting hit) and the generic one (waiting for the duration)? If you are Sickened for 1 minute, you allow both the specific and the generic way of getting rid of the Condition? Why, when it comes to Frightened, there is suddenly something that suggest it shouldn't be the case?
there is a place to apply common sense and rule it as any other frightened interaction.
Why would Dirge of Doom work differently than the other Compositions (and of how it worked in PF1)? You have no issue removing the effects of Inspire Courage the second the character is out of the Emanation. And it's neither complicated nor breaking common sense.
And why Frightened would work differently than the other conditions with a specific way of removing them?Common sense is also on my side. And as a side note I'm making a RAW case and not a common sense one as RAW and common sense have a long history :)
Dirge of Doom is mostly played the way you play it and that's the reason it's considered so strong (after all, as you state it, the Composition then lasts 2 rounds instead of 1, that's a pretty nice buff over the competition). But when you follow RAW strictly, it falls down its pedestal and becomes just another composition.
... You have no issue removing the effects of Inspire Courage the second the character is out of the Emanation. ...
Uhm... b/c the bonuses of IC are (a) not conditions and (b) don't have the stickiness of the condition value not ticking down until the end your turn.
DoD imposes a condition with a specific mechanic for how the condition "falls off". DoD ending or leaving the aura does not remove the Fightened condition b/c DoD does not say it does. Thus, it defaults to the tick down mechanic of the condition.
If DoD said something like, "while in the aura, foes are Frightened 1," you'd have a reasonable point.
... You have no issue removing the effects of Inspire Courage the second the character is out of the Emanation. ...Uhm... b/c the bonuses of IC are (a) not conditions and (b) don't have the stickiness of the condition value not ticking down until the end your turn.
DoD imposes a condition with a specific mechanic for how the condition "falls off". DoD ending or leaving the aura does not remove the Fightened condition b/c DoD does not say it does. Thus, it defaults to the tick down mechanic of the condition.
If DoD said something like, "while in the aura, foes are Frightened 1," you'd have a reasonable point.
I had multiple people explaining me that there was an implication of "stickiness" because it has a specific way of getting away. That's not RAW, that's just a way people want to read the rules that is not supported by any line.
If anything, the Frightened Condition is slippery as it gets away more easily than the other conditions.