I want a book to deal piercing damage, anyone know how?


Advice


Specifically, I want the Holy Book of a Living Grimoire Inquisitor to count as a one-handed piercing weapon for the purposes of using a Swashbuckler deed (Precise Strike). I know of the Rockshard canister alchemical tool for short term use, but does anyone else have another idea? Smashing the holy book against this item would occupy both hands and I want to keep at least one free at all times.

Thanks


Glue a handle and a spike on it.


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without going into the whole question of "is being able to deal piercing damage with a weapon make the weapon a piercing weapon" which some people like to nitpick (i say it does and end it there), you can try weapon versatility


Weapon Versatility would not change the weapon's base damage to qualify. We need something like Bladed Brush, but for Improvised Weapons instead of Glaives.

The book is still an Improvised Weapon, regardless of you being considered proficient and not taking penalties for attacking with it. I could not find anything that effects Improvised Weapons in a way that would allow you to treat your light bludgeoning improvised weapon as a one-handed piercing weapon for the purpose of class abilities that require such.


Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Glue a handle and a spike on it.

Unacceptable. One does not deface one's holy book in such a manner. Covering it with black tar and sharp, pointy alchemical rocks is bad enough, which is why I don't want to do it.

zza ni wrote:
without going into the whole question of "is being able to deal piercing damage with a weapon make the weapon a piercing weapon" which some people like to nitpick (i say it does and end it there), you can try weapon versatility

Arguing over the rules belongs in the rules thread. Speaking from purely RAW, it is supposed to be a specific kind of weapon, not a weapon capable of doing a specific type of damage. Speaking from RAI, its a particular style of weapon meant to invoke the image of a swashbuckler, so long, pointy and sharp.

The feat is a good one. Thank you. This is purely theoretical anyway. One does not STAB someone with their book, hahaha.

VoodistMonk wrote:
The book is still an Improvised Weapon, regardless of you being considered proficient and not taking penalties for attacking with it.

That is a very good point. It says the base damage is treated as a cold iron light mace, nothing about it actually being treated as a cold iron light mace. So, it is very much an improvised weapon.

Anyway, the intent was to use the Flamboyant Arcana + Arcane Deed magus arcanas to get Precise Strike so that I can increase the damage output from using the Holy Book. I've already got a way to get an attack bonus that is ... honestly quite high. I might just forget about it and invest into Power Attack instead.


i'm pretty sure they thought about the improvised part in the archtype.

from the archtype:
" is considered proficient with the book,"

this should allow him to take feats and such that need him to be proficient with the weapon (such as weapon focus etc)


Lots of things allow you to be treated as proficient with Improvised Weapons, but that doesn't suddenly change what you are using into a manufactured weapon... just removes the non-proficiency penalty to attack. The book is still very much an Improvised Weapon... all they did is make it deal damage as a cold iron light mace instead of the normal light mace damage a similar Improvised Weapon would deal.


How about a book cover with a spine protector; a particularly stiff spine protector that extends in a dagger-like point beyond the top of the book.


We need a feat or ability that applies to Improvised Weapons and allows us to treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).


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Improvisational Focus allows you to take Weapon Versatility with improvised weapons.

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DeathlessOne wrote:
Anyway, the intent was to use the Flamboyant Arcana + Arcane Deed magus arcanas to get Precise Strike so that I can increase the damage output from using the Holy Book. I've already got a way to get an attack bonus that is ... honestly quite high. I might just forget about it and invest into Power Attack instead.

Just fyi, Arcane Deed was errata:d to be incompatible (read: worthless) for Precise Strike. The language was changed to prevent any benefit from passive deeds.

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VoodistMonk wrote:
We need a feat or ability that applies to Improvised Weapons and allows us to treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).

We do not. You would be right if we were trying to fulfill the prerequisites for something like Slashing Grace with a bludgeoning weapon through Weapon Versatility. But Precise Strike is always active. Temporarily fulfilling the requirements for the ability is enough to benefit from it.

Unless you're arguing that a "one-handed piercing weapon" is something different than "a one-handed weapon that deals piercing damage".

In which case I'd ask you to provide the definition for a "one-handed piercing weapon".
As defined by the game, not your own definition


Find a way to use the book as a shield, give it shield spikes?


Just repurpose a Boot Blade (Bladed Boot) into a Book Blade that shoots from the spine for 25 gp. Ignore the part about making it harder to walk when using it. Technically I'd probably require it to be made from cold iron itself as well.

Your GM would have to agree that the weapon is still the book and the blade is just modifying the book.


Wonderstell wrote:
Just fyi, Arcane Deed was errata:d to be incompatible (read: worthless) for Precise Strike. The language was changed to prevent any benefit from passive deeds.

There is a lot of errata that was made that I don't use or agree with. I am aware of this particular change and it is the same bin of rubbish that I tossed the old "caster levels count for Mystic Theurge prerequisites" ruling before they ended up changing it again.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Find a way to use the book as a shield, give it shield spikes?

Fun idea that I toyed with briefly, but armor spikes can only be added to something that is already a shield, not just treated as one for certain purposes.

Pizza Lord wrote:
Just repurpose a Boot Blade (Bladed Boot) into a Book Blade that shoots from the spine for 25 gp. Ignore the part about making it harder to walk when using it. Technically I'd probably require it to be made from cold iron itself as well.

That won't fly. Doesn't even pass my sniff test, and I'm a pretty lenient GM myself.

So far, the only way I can reasonably get this thing to work (mechanically and narratively) is having the book made with metal pages sharpened up real nicely, and taking Weapon Versatility and Slashing Grace. So, shifting your grip is merely opening the book so the sharp pages are revealed, and slashing with them. But that locks me into three feats when I could just take Power Attack and not worry about the headache.


I think you're foiled.

A book isn't normally a weapon (it's an object) and the class just lets you use it like a weapon. There's no normal way to add a weapon quality or weapon modification to an object unless it is a weapon.
Using a dagger as a bookmark won't work as the class says book and not dagger bookmark in your book.
so the book is a lousy weapon.
You could try a spring blade in your book with GM approval. I'd say it's actually got a chance.

Try Cestus. It's B|P and can be a special material, can be enchanted, and other things you do with weapons.

Desperate Weapon:C1 isn't any help.

see if your GM will let you have a Gishvit Animal Companion or Familiar. Then attack with it.


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Wonderstell wrote:


VoodistMonk wrote:
We need a feat or ability that applies to Improvised Weapons and allows us to treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).

We do not. You would be right if we were trying to fulfill the prerequisites for something like Slashing Grace with a bludgeoning weapon through Weapon Versatility. But Precise Strike is always active. Temporarily fulfilling the requirements for the ability is enough to benefit from it.

Unless you're arguing that a "one-handed piercing weapon" is something different than "a one-handed weapon that deals piercing damage".

In which case I'd ask you to provide the definition for a "one-handed piercing weapon".
As defined by the game, not your own definition

Whoa... I had to take a big step back and literally F my own face (that can only be read/said in the Tom Cruise/Tropic Thunder voice)... I did actually have myself chasing my own tail with some backwards circular logic, didn't I? There is no difference, and I don't know why I was so caught up on you needing something allowing you to count it as something else.

Improvisional Focus and Weapon Versatility should work.


Also, since we're theorycrafting, not worrying about the rules, what if the blade was a quill? The writing utensil is affixed to the outside of the book, thus not disrespectful, but it is magically treated so that, when affixed it is rigid with the hardness of iron.

The weapon has Reach too. How? Why, a bookstrap of course. Functioning like 1 end of a chained kama, the holy book has been handcrafted using both magic and alchemy, then blessed by the Divine powers of your deity such that using it in conjunction with your training is not only right but righteous.

The "spike," upon striking a foe, can deliver an indelible mark 1/day on that foe. Utilizing the Brand cantrip, it adds +1 damage to the attack. What's more, it brands that foe as a heretic to the faith such that all who look upon them may judge them so. Only penance through self-flagellation (1d6 damage if the foe tries to scrape away the mark) will spare the blasphemer from such judgement.

I mean, if you're going to go holy book, let's go holy book!


Yes, we are theory-crafting but we aren't throwing the rules out entirely. We just aren't going to argue about what constitutes a one-handed piercing weapon when it comes to being one or being used AS one.

If you can think of a way to get the Sacred Weapon ability of the Living Grimoire Inquisitor to function for a 'quill' and be a piercing weapon, I am all ears. However, the intent is to smash faces with the book and occasionally 'stab' them if possible. With as little feat investment as possible.


Well, ok, ignore my fluff then but other folks have suggested just weaponizing the book. There are rules for creating new weapons in the Weapons section so just invent a weapon similar to what others have suggested upthread and model it after existing weapons like the boot dagger or whatever. Once you have that ok'd by the GM, it's just a matter of seeing what feats (if any) the GM needs you to have in order to optimize around its use alongside your swash feat.


"a living grimoire forms a supernatural bond with a large ironbound tome containing the holy text of his deity and learns to use it as a weapon"

beside the feat i mentioned above. if you're theory crafting the book into a weapon you might want to use that iron it's bound in. just sharpen it a bit. call it a 'shiv-moire'


Azothath wrote:

...

You could try a spring blade in your book with GM approval.

Try Cestus. It's B|P and can be a special material, can be enchanted, and other things you do with weapons.
...

Personally I think using a cestus or two is the best RAW option. It also allows a normal path to upgrade the cestus. With two cestus you can still cast, attack with the book, or attack with either cestus.

The next would be adding a spring blade to the book. It's not hard to imagine the sheath in the spine. Upgrade wise it's a double weapon with the blade as one weapon and the book another.

Lastly is using the optional weapon creation rules to have your GM craft a special book (it is likely the pages in the book will change at some point or it might get sundered). You'll have to purchase a Fortifying Stone to protect your 'precious'.

For attack variability I suggest obsidian daggers. They're a cheap disposable that everyone has proficiency with and should be immune to acid. They'll give you that P|S attack and a 10ft thrown weapon range. If you want some action economy put one dagger in a spring-loaded wrist sheath for quick access. A couple of loaded heavy crossbows in your handy haversack can come later.

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