Proper way to run a No Magic game then slowly introduce it without crushing balance

[McDaygo]

So I want to run a low magic game. No technology just pure medieval high fantasy setting. Things like +1-+5 will be flat bonus for superior craftsmanship which is an easy reskin.

Races and Monsters will be the same only I won’t introduce ones with crazy spell like abilities (minor ones I’ll reskin as supernatural abilities).

The issue I am having is having is when I introduce magic what way do I go about it:

Let the players pick any class from Core or APG

Option 1) Advise the players that yes you can pick say Cleric but until Magic is introduced, you will not have access to any spells or abilities that are magic in nature. This leads to the issue of do I not level my party at all till I introduce it so a character doesn’t go from no magic to say level 3 spells over night. Or level like normal with the understanding that gou will catch up in power and don’t make dumb calls.

Option 2) Have only Martial characters available at first but allow cross classing or re classing

This also brings up healing without magic. I know the heal skill can do wonders but I don’t want to have game stop cause “oh we are waiting 8 hours to heal again”

[Mark Hoover 330]

When do you plan to "introduce magic?" Is there a specific level this will become avail? Why not just say no spellcasting classes, but you can take alchemy classes or psychic?

PCs can still feel magical, but you can justify everything as "super-science" or "the occult." It ends up very much like media such as the show Penny Dreadful or the movie Van Helsing. PCs have ridiculous skills with weapons and gear, can be carrying bombs or extracts, and might even be possessed by a spirit or three, but otherwise they're just normal people.

Edit: these two types of PCs also allow characters healing and restorative effects w/out spells as well. Otherwise, per RAW, a PC can only be treated for "deadly wounds" 1/day.

[McDaygo]

I didn’t have a goal in mind for when I do, but I do like that.

[W E Ray]

You can also make a Word or Excel document and type out the spells you will eventually allow. Grab your Core and open to the Spells list and, starting with Zero-Level Spells, type onto your document the handful of Spells you will 'one day allow. You can even 'bump-up' some of the spells -- like, if you think Mage Armor may be eventually okay but want it as a 3rd or 4th level Spell instead of a 1st. ....Save that document for a later date. When the time comes you can introduce a new Casting Class -- the only casting Class. (It will not matter to anyone that some of the Spells are from the Core Wiz list and some others are from the Cleric or Druid list. The Spells will be so limited it'll be okay. Even if Mage Armor is a 3rd Level Spell and Charm Person is a 4th Level Spell. Ultimately the Class will be more like Adept. You can make it medium or low BAB, add a few select Hexes or Mysteries or Revelations, etc., -- whatever. Maybe eliminate any Spell Failure Chance -- Or make it universally 50% Spell Failure every time.

The only hard part is monsters. SOOO many monsters in the Bestiaries are SOOO fully designed to be beaten only by PCs that have jacked magic items and resources at their disposal.

In any case, the 'Option 2' in the OP seems considerably more appropriate than the 'Option 1.'

[Taja the Barbarian]

PF1 is probably not a great chassis to start with, as it kinda falls apart without magical healing options: Damage from your first encounter might end your adventuring day, even if it is just one character botching a climb check...

You might want to take a look at Starfinder: It's built around much lower magic levels, so it might be easier to re-flavor SF's tech than to minimize PF1's magic (or just steal the Stamina system that makes healing a lot easier without magic).

Mechanically, PF2 probably works a lot better without magic than PF1 does, though re-flavoring the rune system will be a bit awkward and it's not as easy to multi-class into a caster class at a later date (Martial classes with caster archetypes seem like they should fit well, though).

Iron Heroes might also be along the lines of what you are looking for (although I don't recall non-magical healing being any better than PF1).

[Senko]

If you can find a copy maybe try to get ahold of the D20 modern magic form 3.5. Its not pathfinder and it assumes modern tech but it is intended for a lower 6th level for pure casters magic setting. Another option would be maybe the arcana unearthed or unearthed arcana or 5th ed which I think both have rituals. So rather than allowing magic classes you allow magic rituals. With potential drawbacks and enchanted items. So your players aren't going to cast fireball but they might be able to perform a ritual to heal them in down time.

As said though pathfinder and DnD both assume high magic worlds. If there's a lord of the rings system that might be better as that's a lower magic world in general.

[Temperans]

The way to make no magic work in PF1e is simple and has to be done in stages:

First remove all the casting classes and archetype that go beyond whatever cap you want. Ex: Removing Full casters for mid magic; removing 2/3 and full casters for low magic; or removing 1/2, 2/3, and full casters for no magic. The last option would remove base paladin and ranger and allow only spell-less variants.

After that determine how strong the magic items you want to allow are, keep in mind that the only way for a non-caster to make magic items is with the Master Craftsman feat. There are a number of ways to handle it, you can: Restrict access, change goal cost, change the caster level.

Restricting access is as simple as changing the marketplace table such that even in a metropolis you will only find 1 major items, meaning players can only get it reasonably from treasure. Changing the cost can make it so the level when players get access to treasure changes and makes high level magic items impossible to buy (doubling cost double the level in which players can get easy access). Changing the caster level allows you to set a maximum caster level for what can be made putting a direct cap, it can also change what level the creator needs to be to make it, directly affecting when the item can be bought.

Finally, the last step and the most tedious one of all... Adjusting enemies. In any case you will need to adjust the atk bonus, AC, and saves of the enemies you will also need to decide what enemies you will have. The easiest way to do it is removing all outsiders and caster enemies, this leaves you something close to the Witcher where you can still fight various monsters.

*********************

People mentioned that healing becomes more of an issue, but that is honestly not the case. It just becomes different than what people are useful:

* Incredible Healer: Use the result of the check instead of normal value of treat deadly wounds.
* Improvisational Healer: Using a healer's kit gives an extra +2 bonus, and cure potions use your rank in heal instead of its CL.
* Healer's Hands: Treat deadly wounds as a full-action to bypass the 1/day limit up to your ranks in Knowledge (planes) and get a bonus if you pass the DC by 10 or more.
* Pathologist: Instead of a +4 vs disease or poison, the target may use the result of your check on the next save to resist disease or poison.
* Trepanation: May use faith healing without psychic magic. You can also grant bonuses vs some pretty damaging stuff (although those are likely to be gone in a no magic game).

There are also all the archetypes (Ex: Combat Healer Squire) and low level magic items (Ex: Healer's Satchel Bandages of Rapid Recovery).

The only issue is ability drain and negative levels, which I argue should be removed or altered to not be permanent when doing a no magic game. For example, making it so you have to spend a weak to recover 1 or 2 points. Or at least give an alternate way to cure those conditions.

[thorin001]

McDaygo wrote:

So I want to run a low magic game. No technology just pure medieval high fantasy setting. Things like +1-+5 will be flat bonus for superior craftsmanship which is an easy reskin.

Races and Monsters will be the same only I won’t introduce ones with crazy spell like abilities (minor ones I’ll reskin as supernatural abilities).

The issue I am having is having is when I introduce magic what way do I go about it:

Let the players pick any class from Core or APG

Option 1) Advise the players that yes you can pick say Cleric but until Magic is introduced, you will not have access to any spells or abilities that are magic in nature. This leads to the issue of do I not level my party at all till I introduce it so a character doesn’t go from no magic to say level 3 spells over night. Or level like normal with the understanding that gou will catch up in power and don’t make dumb calls.

Option 2) Have only Martial characters available at first but allow cross classing or re classing

This also brings up healing without magic. I know the heal skill can do wonders but I don’t want to have game stop cause “oh we are waiting 8 hours to heal again”

Play another system.

Magic is just too baked into the system for you to try to remove it.

[Azothath]

no magic? That probably means no supernatural powers or divine casting either... that just leaves you with some "alchemy". I'll assume psychics are also out... Why not just have a 'gritty' game of martial PCs only and leave magics to the NPCs.
Otherwise there's d20 Spycraft etc...

[Matthew Morris]

One option I thought of.

Start the PCs with non casting classes, when magic in 'introduced' (in my mind by beating bad guys that have low magic, allow retraining into caster classes.

For example...

Player starts as rogue, wanting to play caster. After a few levels the party beats a magus/eldrich scoundrel/Vigilante (warlock/cabalist) and gets a spell book. You then have downtime where he studies the spellbook and retrains into a 'half caster' class like above.

When you want to introduce 7th level spells, repeat with a full caster villian.

Magic is still rare, but now they're the heroes bringing it back.

[ErichAD]

Martial classes only. When magic comes back, allow partial gestalt leveling so that the magic part isn't baked into their build as much.

So if you introduced casting at 9th level, your fighter would be
a level 1 wizard/fighter-gestalt with 8 more levels of plain fighter.

[Temperans]

You could also use free variant multiclassing.

[Hugo Rune]

If you start play at low level, ban Ye Olde Magick Shoppe and fit lots of encounters between rests then magic is not much of an issue.

[Mark Hoover 330]

This reminds me of a D&D 2e setting a buddy of mine was trying to market at GenCon 2000. I think it was called Metarken and the idea was that all of the gods, good and evil, had abandoned humanity so there were no proper clerics or divine/profane magic casters anymore... except for Heretics. They gained their power specifically from the Abyss and could only reach up to 3rd level spells.

So of course, since this was 2e, that meant that PCs could build adventuring parties, just like before, but healing would be either mundane or extremely rare, unless they wanted to make some kind of compact with evil. I don't think the setting ever took off but the one game I played at GenCon was fun. Well it was, right up until one of our party revealed HE was a Heretic and our whole group failed the scenario getting lynched in the town square...