Would your average person even know what a halfling or gnome is?
In the pact worlds they don't seem uncommon, Elves I could easily see as not being as well known though given how they've become isolated and when they do leave they wear masks.
|
In the game I'm currently in 1/2, the party is legacy races, two dwarves, and an elf.
In character, It's not likely to be any different than knowledge of any of the other major races in the Pact Worlds.
It's been interesting and fun to see how the other players play their legacy races in Starfinder, they fit in much better than I had thought.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd imagine your average person in the Pact Worlds gets an education on races that exist in the Pact Worlds in non-negligible numbers, and all the legacy races should qualify.
Consider it similar to basic geography in the US. If you know the names of the, say, 30-35th most populous country on earth (Spain, Argentina, Algeria, Sudan, Uganda, Iraq). As with those real life examples, some you'll know better because of historical or cultural reasons - maybe there's a bunch of famous halfling social media star (your Spain), while half-orcs are unfashionable and concentrated on a repressed, small population world far away, so less well known (Uganda) to most. Maybe you never thought about the dwarves for most of your adult life after hearing about them in school, but suddenly they're in the news because a star citadel blew up a bunch or pirates and got into some hot water when they accidentally attacked corporate ships they misidentifie (similar to the Iraq war elevating something otherwise irrelvant to your life to big media presence).
Elves are still found in significant numbers on Castrovel, and half-orcs are very numerous (if oppressed) on Apostae, so anyone familiar with either world would know of them. IIRC, gnomes and halflings are mostly found on Absalom Station, and both races tend to be pretty gregarious, so anyone who has visited the station has probably met some.
I imagine dwarves and half-elves are rarer, but becoming better known, particularly as more join the Starfinder Society. In fact, the Starfinder Society is probably responsible for most legacy races being as well known as they are outside the Pact Worlds.
In my own experience playing Starfinder Society, where dozens of additional races are available to play (for a price), it can be rather refreshing to have, say, an elf or dwarf along, because they'll probably be the least exotic member of the party.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dwarves seem to be fairly common in the Diaspora.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am pretty sure they are common, the reason they weren't in the main race section seemed to be more stylistic. They wanted to get people familiar with the new races outside of the older races first and foremost.
I do tend to think that orcs and half-orcs have actually *benefited* from this, in terms of public reputation. While the average Pacter doesn't think of orcs that often, when they *do*? It tends to be less "those barbarians raiders who loot and pillage our borderlands", and more "the oppressed underclass of those drow corporate a#%&!%%s".
Seconded! I haven't seen many in Society play, but there is a Half-Orc Admittance boon that predates their "always available" status. The one I recall was a merc soldier, former drow cannon-fodder who was glad to be well away from his old masters...but tended to latch onto the most charismatic PC at the table and look to them for orders. My solarian got to be his "captain" for one scenario, which was amusing.
(My own half-orc PC, who has not yet seen play, is a precog who came into his powers during a harrowing escape from an eldritch cult on Apostae. I both dread and anticipate the day when he has to go on a mission with a drow...)
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Would your average person even know what a halfling or gnome is?
I'm now picturing vesk being impressed that human children can carry firearms.
Managing Creative Director (Starfinder)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd say that the population of legacy species is very robust. The fact that they aren't core species is less to do about numbers and more to do about the focus of the setting. We wanted to highlight different species than what people are used to with Starfinder. So, I wouldn't say that anyone would ever be surprised to see an elf, a dwarf or a halfling compared to seeing a lashunta or a ysoki.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd say that the population of legacy species is very robust. The fact that they aren't core species is less to do about numbers and more to do about the focus of the setting. We wanted to highlight different species than what people are used to with Starfinder. So, I wouldn't say that anyone would ever be surprised to see an elf, a dwarf or a halfling compared to seeing a lashunta or a ysoki.
You might be surprised to see an elf with high stealth skills :)
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My very first character in Starfinder Society (though I had to wait a month to get the boon to play her rather than just GM adventures on her) was this gnome, Charli. She's from Nerundel, a gnomish village in Castrovel that's on the Elvish continent that has one of the premier schools for Magic in the Pact Worlds, Nerundel Halls. Gnomish characters are found primarily on Absalom Station, Castrovel, the Diaspora and Triaxus -- as well as the Near Space Marixah Republic, which was settled primarily by legacy races -- but you can find them anywhere, really.
In the story line of Starfinder Society scenarios, we have seen numerous fictional gnomes. The most famous is the grumpy but very dedicated bleachling gnome Venture Captain Naiaj, who we've had as part of the storyline since episode 1-05, First Mandate.
Some early gnome appearances from Starfinder Canon:
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thinking back, I feel that gnomes actually show up with surprising frequency in AP's and society scenarios. I don't know if that's reflective of their actual demographic proportion vs writer preference or if it's just something sticking out in my mind that's exaggerated.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Reading a bit between the lines on the introduction to chapter 2 (page 36) of Interstellar Species, the difference between "core" and "legacy" races/species in the Core Rulebook is less about rarity and more about thematic fit.
Starfinder was and is supposed to be more than "Pathfinder in space," so the "core" races/species were deliberately chosen to provide a different feel: androids ("this is science-fantasy"), humans ("always there as a familiar baseline"), kasatha ("not only can you travel to different planets, but also to different solar systems; and they can be different from the typical humanoid"), lashunta ("some races/species have variants that are significantly different, while still retaining a lot of common features"), shirren ("intelligent insectoids are more common in space fiction than normal fantasy; plus, a tie in to the Swarm"), vesk ("a competing/uneasy ally reptiloid/saurian empire; as with insectoids, somewhat more common than normal fantasy [apart from decadent or savage tropes]"), and ysoki ("need a Small sized race that isn't closely tied to the normal fantasy setting"). Also, the Starfinder "core" races/species have a wider variation (in appearance, etc.) from the human baseline than Pathfinder (the "legacy" races/species); again, this is by design to fit the space fiction tropes where "alien"/"weird" is more commonplace.
...shirren ("intelligent insectoids are more common in space fiction than normal fantasy; plus, a tie in to the Swarm"), vesk ("a competing/uneasy ally reptiloid/saurian empire; as with insectoids, somewhat more common than normal fantasy [apart from decadent or savage tropes]")...
After re-reading that, I should clarify that the specific commentary regarding insectoid and reptiloid/saurian creatures in space fiction is my editorializing. I should have been more careful in placing the quotes to separate which parts were paraphrasing Interstellar Species and which parts were my opinion.
This is why people recommend waiting until the next day to review a draft document before submitting.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Reading a bit between the lines on the introduction to chapter 2 (page 36) of Interstellar Species, the difference between "core" and "legacy" races/species in the Core Rulebook is less about rarity and more about thematic fit.
Well, Humans don't have a planet any more and their empire is in a galaxy far far away.
Elves still have 1/3rd of a planet but a lot of them have gone full recluse.
Gnomes, halflings nuar, kitstune et all are all from golarion. Which has gone poof. your home planet going poof while all thats left is a space station ((no matter how big) is going to take out a good chunk of the population.
I'd imagine your average person in the Pact Worlds gets an education on races that exist in the Pact Worlds in non-negligible numbers, and all the legacy races should qualify.
Consider it similar to basic geography in the US. If you know the names of the, say, 30-35th most populous country on earth (Spain, Argentina, Algeria, Sudan, Uganda, Iraq). {. . .}
You might be giving too much credit to the geographic knowledge of the average US person. (Actually, you're giving too much credit even to ME -- when I was about to finish college and go to my first attempt at graduate school in Indiana, a colleague from the United Kingdom asked me where Indiana was, and I had to admit I didn't know. Not that the location itself would have given me warning of what I was going to experience there . . . .)
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I assume that people living in the Pact System at least learn the names and looks of the species living in it.
Common species maybe. But people only generally know the animals they run into and or the ones in their area. People know cats because they're common housepets. People in north america are familiar with skunks, but how many people know zorilla ? And thats on the same planet. Add 12 planets ..
Londo Mollari : But this - this, this, this is like - being nibbled to death by, uh - Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet, go "quack".
Vir Cotto : Cats.
Londo Mollari : Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.
The Renkroda park films and their sequels probably let people know a few species here and there, the photogenic ones or the ones that can make a good movie. But thats going to be pretty spotty (apologies to the space cheetahs)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, Humans don't have a planet any more and their empire is in a galaxy far far away.Reading a bit between the lines on the introduction to chapter 2 (page 36) of Interstellar Species, the difference between "core" and "legacy" races/species in the Core Rulebook is less about rarity and more about thematic fit.
Akiton. Sure, they have red skin and share the planet with contemplatives, shobhads, and ysoki, but Golarion was not the only planet in the Pact Worlds with a sizeable population of humans; even before the Gap.
Elves still have 1/3rd of a planet but a lot of them have gone full recluse.
Gnomes, halflings nuar, kitstune et all are all from golarion. Which has gone poof. your home planet going poof while all thats left is a space station ((no matter how big) is going to take out a good chunk of the population.
The elves on Castrovel have gone isolationist, true. Gnomes and halflings probably spread out before Golarion disappeared (either for new experiences to stave off the bleaching for gnomes or migrating with various human communities for halflings); IMO, they would only be less common in the Pact Worlds than they were on Golarion because the overall population contains more races/species.
Nuar and kitsune were never common on Golarion, either; even if they were popular among some gamers. I'm not sure why you brought them up, as they are not "legacy" races/species in the Core Rulebook.
Nuar and kitsune were never common on Golarion, either; even if they were popular among some gamers. I'm not sure why you brought them up, as they are not "legacy" races/species in the Core Rulebook.
Because legacy races and legacy races as defined by paragraph 45 column 12 aren't the same thing?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's worth pointing out that gnomes aren't native to Golarion, they're native to the First World. When they were banished from the First World to the Material, many ended up on Golarion, but some ended up on other planets. I believe Triaxus is confirmed to have a native population of gnomes & I could swear that at least one Codex of Worlds in an AP volume details another planet with a native gnome population but I could be imagining that.
Humans have also been confirmed to have evolved on planets other than Golarion with Jacobs all but outright stating that the evolution of humans in the path/starfinder universe is something that was engineered by a higher power, be it aliens or divinities.
The *only* race that has been explicitly stated to have developed *only* on Golarion are the dwarves, so far as I'm aware.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So eventually people will be exposed to many of the species within the Pact System.
Many yes, but not all. Any particular species could be on every t shirt on the station (like wolves) or "what the heck is that" like the Aye-Aye Jurasic park comes out, and all of a sudden everyone knows Velociraptor along with t rex and brontosaurus*.
There's enough sentient species wandering around for the same thing to happen. I'm sure Zo!'s audience have been aghast to find out that the ghast was just a ghoul posing as a ghast (if he does that pun less than once a century I'll eat a goblin). Is that a kitsune or a red headed human with lycanthropy?** A gnoll or a Vlakka? A realy buff Kasathan or just a skinny shobad?
Most Halflings don't look like humans in ways that are obvious to humans and halflings besides height, but other species who's brains haven't evolved to distinguish humans weird flat faces may not be able to pick up on the difference.
Humans?, the hairless ape. Not the one with the seven genders the one with two...
*muahahah
** how would lycanthropy work when you live on a moon anyway?
And have there been any picture of a Akiton human anywhere so far? But considering how small and inhospitable Akiton is I do not think that their population is comparable to lets say Ryphorians.
Pact Worlds page 53.
As far as numbers go, Arl (Pact Worlds, page 52-53) alone has nearly 7 million humans (more than three times the entire population, counting all races/species, of Absalom station) and doesn't include all of the other communities and tribes on the planet.
The First seeker candidate for starfinder society is also a red human Linky
Do Lycanthropes even exist in Starfinder?
That would be easier to tell if i knew what to look for!
Waking the Worldseed AP has two or three Akitonian humans executives on a resort planet in another system) illustrated. One came out a very odd color of red indeed, I thought she’d gone in for weird cosmetics before I realized the issue.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Just had a thought: Schools probably make at least a nominal attempt to teach first aid in schools, and this would likely include some basic information about all of the regionally common species.
Just had a thought: Schools probably make at least a nominal attempt to teach first aid in schools, and this would likely include some basic information about all of the regionally common species.
For an adventure I'm working on, something I've had to ponder is how the heck would you even have a multi species school? You've got Dragonkin maturing at 25 years, Ysoki maturing at 10. Species not only age and develop faster but have some pretty noticable intelligence gaps. (Your average vesk and average ysoki have a 4 point int difference)
|
Contributor
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
A couple ideas:
Montessori Method Montessori liked to mix wider age groups (over a two year span) and have lots of self-directed choice learning activities, as well as activities where more advanced kids taught those who were falling behind, depending on subject. The idea was that each kid in the group chose their own learning path in the electives, while the required stuff (the skills you needed to learn and research in the first place) were turned into games with lots of time to get the basics to enable the higher learning.
Boy Scout Troop Group activities for camping, hands-on projects and other learning opportunities, combined with an 'at your own pace' merit badge system, with regular meetings where progress is acknowledged and celebrated. Also, wearing merit badges allows you to see at a glance who's had key pieces of training. Some badges are required for everyone to graduate, others are elective and personal choice.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And have there been any picture of a Akiton human anywhere so far? But considering how small and inhospitable Akiton is I do not think that their population is comparable to lets say Ryphorians.Pact Worlds page 53.
As far as numbers go, Arl (Pact Worlds, page 52-53) alone has nearly 7 million humans (more than three times the entire population, counting all races/species, of Absalom station) and doesn't include all of the other communities and tribes on the planet.
Compared to a entire inhabited solar system 7 million, the size of Hong Kong for example, is not much.
Earth just recently reached 8 billion people. And even though the Pact System lacks a densely populated world like earth for biological species (probably), Castrovel, Triaxus and Verces still likely have a few (2-3) billion inhabitants each.
Nice way to ignore the difference between a single city (Arl) and an entire world (Akiton), even though I specifically stated Arl "doesn't include all of the other communities and tribes on the planet." Also, that 7 million is just the humans in Arl; total city population is over 18 million, per page 53.
As you mentioned, it is likely that none of the Pact Worlds is as heavily populated as modern Earth; however, assuming that Akiton is almost entirely empty wasteland when it has been continuously inhabited for thousands of years from before the gap to the current Starfinder setting (and, in fact, one of the most important pre-Drift space/starship manufacturers as the primary source of thasteron no more than a couple centuries ago) is rather illogical.
Based on normal dice statistics that Int gap would translate roughly into a year+ achievement difference based on standard deviations. I'm mostly amused by the question though because most people fail to appreciate how close that situation is to what a modern classroom looks like
Right, but thats just where the int gap starts.You're going to have at least a moderately smart ysoki and slightly slow vesk, widening the class to an 8 point gap (the difference bettwen slow and genius). On top of that the ysoki age/have to be taught twice as fast.
Let's look at Paizo-approved guide ... the core rulebook.
Dwarves: 'most commonly found on Absalom Station, where their guilds and clans wield significant power ....' suggests they should be known.
Elves: 'supposedly rogue elven fleets have launched several surprise assaults on Apostae ....' I'd guess that would make the news. Especially if there are pro-drow social media influencers.
Gnomes: nothing there to imply being well-known but do hang out at Absalom.
Half-elves: '[T]he tropical extrasolar colony of Shanavan is specifically recruiting fellow half-elves.' Guess there's enough to do that. Also a mention about elves being found on Absalom 'in large numbers'.
Half-orcs: they're known well enough for there to be prejudices against them.
Halflings: 'Halflings are a common race in the Pact Worlds and their colonies. ... Media companies and corporations love an irrepressible halfling star or spokesmodel ....' Looking at the sample halfling art in the book makes me imagine she's sponsored by Coca-Cola.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There’s so many races with large numbers on Absalom Station that 0.2% of the population must qualify you.