12 part AP?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Saw a discussion about possibly seeing a 12 part AP - I'm not sure about that but thought a good topic could be discussed around it.

While I'm not really interested in a 12 part AP - I would ... really be interested in four, three part AP's which had a meta plot that ran through all of them wrapped up in the last volume.

Could this be done? Dunno. I'll admit - the biggest weak spot of past and current AP's (in my experience running them) is the link between volumes - there always seems to be at least one good hiccup where goals, locations, or whatever require a good bit of finesse to work through. Thinking of getting smooth transitions between 4 separate 3 part adventures would be tough.

My vision (for what it's worth) would be 4 separate 3 part AP's - that could be enjoyed on their own - but had clues and meta plot points in each that supported the others if played in series.... even optional clues that would give the players a motivation to continue to the next location without being a 'the world will end' thing - giving players and GM's the option to move on if they wanted - etc.

Anyway - thoughts - I know they are always looking for good feedback on the formats - so with the discussion in the product thread getting a few good replies this is my attempt to prod that.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I said it in the last discussion, and it’s worth repeating here: AP variety is essential. When we had Extinction Curse and Agents of Edgewatch back to back, it meant that the AP line spent twelve straight months in a part of Golarion I just do not care about - which means an entire year of product I didn’t buy.

The big perk of the current 3/3/6 system is that you’re never more than six months away from something super different. Some behemoth of linked campaigns has the potential to cost Paizo pretty dearly if the core theme doesn’t resonate with every person buying APs.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

If you want connected AP's, you can go with the 1e Runelords Trilogy (Rise of the Runelords, Shattered Star, Return of the Runelords), which metaplot-wise sounds pretty much like what you are describing. They are still played by 3 different character groups, just be aware.

If you would want the same thing but with the same characters, than additionally to the already mentioned problems, you would also need to tinker with the levels for such an oversized AP.
Either go over 20 (which is a can of worms often opened but seldom consumed :D )
or at least one of the AP would need very slow progression (which actually would probably be pretty successful with some people)

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'll add that all of the Dungeon era APs (Shackled City, Age of Worms and Savage Tide) were all 12-part APs. Now, since they were about 1/3 of a dungeon magazine, I'm not sure how they'd compare to the size today. I've never known anyone to do a full page count or anything comparing pages of adventure in a PF AP vs a Dungeon AP.
I will say that of those, I've done AoW and ST and both of those at least *felt* longer than the APs of today. Could be because they both went to 20th level in the 3.5 days. *shrug*


The compiled shackled city book was comparable in size to a collected volume of an AP based on my recollection of the width of the spine on my bookshelf. AP Volumes are 100 pages, with about 60 of that being adventure content, more or less. So 6x60 is 360 pages or so. A review I found of the first adventure "Life's Bazaar" by Chris Perkins noted that it was 52 pages. No way of knowing if all of them were that long, but it covered 1-20 in a way that not a lot of APs do, so...yeah.

I'd prefer if they went back to 6/6 APs since they've only managed one 11-20 AP since they started this new direction. (And its release got messed up by the shipping issues of the pandemic)

But, low level adventures sell better than high level ones so here we are.

And stopping to think about it, what would a 12 part AP even look like? It would be the most lackadaisical romp through an area. I can't imagine more art--because the budget of the book has to remain largely the same--so its just more text for less adventure.

Unless there was a gimmick of running two groups: like opposing sides of a civil war or something and the last volume is the PVP extravaganza no one wanted.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

If there was support for levels about 20, I could see a 12-part path done, maybe even using the slow progression track. But using standard progression and a 1-20 range, I imagine there would need to be a lot of padding.

(Although, personally, I would absolutely be down for the experiment.)


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I am not sure how Paizo can do a 12 part AP without changing some things in ways I cannot foresee them doing.

PF1 is dead, so it can't be done under that system.

PF2 routinely has 6 part APs that go from 1st to 20th levels, so stretching a PF2 AP out to 12 parts would be tricky at this point.

Starfinder could easily handle a 12 part AP, as their 6 part APs barely get to 12th or 13th level. The problem is that, with the current every other month publishing schedule, as 12 part AP would take two years to complete.

I suppose some gimmicky combination of two alternating storylines could work, but that approach would lose anyone who definitively does not like one of the storylines/systems.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The one thing I want most from Gencon is an announcement that the second 3-parter in 2023 goes level 11-20. High-level play feels so good in 2e and I want more of it!


I mean, the 20th level is a hard barrier. If you did 1-20 over 12 volumes that would be twice as slow as usual. If you had two characters who went 1-20 over 12 volumes, that wouldn't really be different than "play one character each through two adventure paths".


4 people marked this as a favorite.
willfromamerica wrote:
The one thing I want most from Gencon is an announcement that the second 3-parter in 2023 goes level 11-20. High-level play feels so good in 2e and I want more of it!

Wish granted!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Folks eager to hear a bit more about the next high-level Adventure Path should make sure to check out the Pathfinder Adventures seminar tomorrow; I'll have a bit more to talk about it there, and we will be answering some questions from the twitch chat at the back half of the seminar.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, the 20th level is a hard barrier. If you did 1-20 over 12 volumes that would be twice as slow as usual. If you had two characters who went 1-20 over 12 volumes, that wouldn't really be different than "play one character each through two adventure paths".

That's true - however using the 4, 3 part idea - I wouldn't even be opposed to separate characters for each path. Frankly I am not sure how it would be best to be done - but I'm always a fan of crossover (and rise/shattered star/return is a huge bag of awesome for me).

Let me try re-pitching the idea - I would love to see them come up with a big grand 'meta plot' - that trickles at a slow burn with hooks into many adventures, something that would only wrap up after a decent length and while it wouldn't *require* any of the AP's previously to be played - it would reward groups that did due to richer understanding of the background/etc.

Something a bit pulpish that made you crave 'the next clue' - anyway - thanks everyone for chiming in :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ckorik wrote:
Let me try re-pitching the idea - I would love to see them come up with a big grand 'meta plot' - that trickles at a slow burn with hooks into many adventures, something that would only wrap up after a decent length and while it wouldn't *require* any of the AP's previously to be played - it would reward groups that did due to richer understanding of the background/etc.

If PF1 is any indicator, they are likely already doing this, it just won't become apparent until years down the line when all that subtle foreshadowing pays off. :D

With the amount of Norgorber-adjacent stuff in the first few APs, I was convinced he was going to be the PF2 BBEBG for a while.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I do fully expect that Strength of Thousands #4 was set-up for a Bright Lions AP further down the line, and I cannot *wait* for it. That might make a fun offering for Mythic, if they don’t want to immediately pull the trigger on fighting Tar-Baphon.

There’s not another clear candidate for a followup from the 2e APs so far that I can see. Maybe Outlaws of Alkenstar and Blood Lords build up to Nex coming back?


Ckorik wrote:
Saw a discussion about possibly seeing a 12 part AP - I'm not sure about that but thought a good topic could be discussed around it.

Would the 12 part AP be half-speed advancement, or go to level 40? Or somewhere in between? EDIT: I realised the OP was not actually advocating 12-part APs, but presumably someone was at some point and I was curious about what was actually meant.

Both could be interesting, but I am not sure how much of a market their is for either.


I feel like you could maybe block out a year where you had one big story that has two intertwined threads, where one party is responsible for each thread similar to the Sihedron Heroes and the main party in Return of the Runelords, except the former is in an ongoing plot and not a finished one- so it would be like running Shattered Star in parallel with Return of the Runelords. So in month 1 you do the first part for Party A, and for month 2 you do the first part for Party B, etc.

I'm just not sure how satisfying this would be since a six part AP for one party is a big ask for a lot of groups. But this could be a way to tackle challenges that are too big for a single level 20 party without resorting to mythic. This might also work with 2 very different kinds of campaigns, like you have one campaign with a lot of social intrigue stuff and one parallel campaign that is a dungeon crawl.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
glass wrote:
Would the 12 part AP be half-speed advancement, or go to level 40? Or somewhere in between? EDIT: I realised the OP was not actually advocating 12-part APs, but presumably someone was at some point and I was curious about what was actually meant.

As one of the people who has been expressing a preference for longer APs, what I was hoping for is some mode for Legendary/Epic/call it what you will adventuring that goes beyond 20th level, say to 30th. Something that is specifically "levels past the current cap" rather than Mythic's "different track of advancement in parallel with regular levels". I did start suggesting this well back in PF1 times, and my mental model here was based on a combination of the pacing of PF1 APs mostly not going to 20th, and that the last few levels tend to advance more slowly (in terms of volume of AP content per level) and I would expect that tendency to increase in a putative new Epic system.

Also, by "longer" here, my primary suggestion in recent years has been for a 9-part AP adjacent to a 3-parter, which would not leave people who didn't like whatever the topic of the AP turned out to be without any AP content for an entire year, and which also seems to be less work (though I'm well aware making any such thing work is still an awful lot of work) than a 12-parter.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The 12 part APs of old were only one adventure in the issue. If we were to get one of those now, they would have to do that again. One 12 parter in half the issue, and any combination of 3 and 6 part adventures or one-shots.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evan Tarlton wrote:
The 12 part APs of old were only one adventure in the issue. If we were to get one of those now, they would have to do that again. One 12 parter in half the issue, and any combination of 3 and 6 part adventures or one-shots.

Might be fun, tbh.

Those DUNGEON mags were a trip.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / General Discussion / 12 part AP? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion