Is there any way to make a summoner good at melee?

[Dargath]

Pretty much the title. Trying to figure out the best way to approach making a Monster Rider from Monster Hunter Stories 2. I’ve sorted the monster out (Tigrex or Rathalos) I’m just not sure how best to get my “rider” (summoner) stuck in there and actually do anything especially with the limited spell slots.

That or you know maybe taking a fighter and tacking on the Eidolon via Archetype? However I don’t know if I could fully realize the monstie concept that route.

I suppose the last route is pretend I’m a support character with a “hunting horn” type build but how do the limited slots work in action in real games in y’all’s opinions? Enough to actually do much with?

[Kyrone]

If you mean like with a weapon, summoner itself will be dealing with caster weapon proficiencies, so no way to reach a martial scaling.

Defensively summoner does pretty well as it's a 10HP class and you could give it like armor with Sentinel or so on.

You could choose short range spells like touch or cones to take advantage of being in melee or if you are Occult pick psychic MC and go after imaginary weapon.

Otherwise Beastmaster with a martial class might also work.

[aobst128]

Champion dedication and take up a longspear to use retributive strike. The cool thing about champion reactions is you can use them on your eidolon to protect your collective health pool.

[HumbleGamer]

I'd go with sentinel dedication, as Kyrone proposed, and then simply rely on CON and STR as main stat ( drop charisma, and use the spells to just buff yourself and the eidolon ).

Tandem strike is ok, even if maybe not the best way to optimize a summoner, even with a spellcaster attack ratio.

Being a divine/occult spellcaster would give you the chance to also use heroism on yourself, during boss fights.

[aobst128]

With how delayed your armor proficiency is, sentinel isn't needed until around 12th level. Champion is the way to go for heavy armor.

[Dargath]

I was looking at Primal for a “Tigrex” (Beast Eidolon) or Arcane for a Dragon Eidolon. However I think Gouging Claw works really well I could flavor it as a sword and I think it fits perfectly! Also uses my spell caster stats for the melee attack. I think that’s an elegant solution. However yes I will probably want at least medium armor haha.

[aobst128]

Imaginary weapon through psychic multiclass is also a good path

[Xethik]

If you do go for an actual weapon rather than a spell attack cantrip, the feat Tandem Strike is made just for that.
It seems tricky to pull off but if you search for that feat you might find more people discussing that sort of build. I imagine Steed Form with a reach weapon works at some level, but you'll need to find the best way to use Act Together then, since you won't be able to combine Act Together with moves or Tandem Strike due to the tandem trait.

[Temperans]

Good luck because for every feat you take trying to fix your defenses your eidolon becomes worse and vice versa.

Given you lack all the proficiencies for melee and are in fact the weak link the "summoner" is just the eidolon's sidekick 90% of the time. The last 10% is the handful of times you use your 4 spell slots.

If you are in a game with a lenient GM you might be fine. But anywhere else pray that you are lucky.

[Person-Man]

If you want to be marginally adequate, the advice above will help.

But if you actually want to be GOOD at melee then you're going to have to convince your GM to allow you to play a Dual Class Character as everything else is going to fall short of even bringing you up to par half of the time with the most baseline of non-specialized martials.

[aobst128]

How well you perform will come down to your tactics. It's true that making strikes is a better idea with your eidolon but you can still function and support with a melee weapon. If you focus on only making attacks with tandem strike when possible as well as retributive strike through champion if you go that route, you'll be fine.

[Squiggit]

This is the first build I tried to make when the Summoner came out, this exact idea. Unfortunately, Paizo decided they didn't want people playing this kind of character and gave Summoners caster weapon proficiency instead, so it's an uphill battle.

Summoner with a greatsword basically breaks even using Tandem Strike when compared to a Str eidolon simply attacking normally twice. A reach weapon like a guisarme trades some damage for more safety and flexibility with reach and reach tripping, which imo is really nice and probably worth it.

But dropping down to smaller weapons (especially if you go a dex build, especially at lower levels) you rapidly start to fall behind on damage, and spending a 6th level feat to basically break even is already not the best feeling.

Tandem Strike is your only real build support for this kind of concept too, so pre-6 it's definitely a little rough and you're mostly going to be making yourself worse every time you try to wade into combat on your summoner half.

[Dargath]

Squiggit wrote:

This is the first build I tried to make when the Summoner came out, this exact idea. Unfortunately, Paizo decided they didn't want people playing this kind of character and gave Summoners caster weapon proficiency instead, so it's an uphill battle.

Summoner with a greatsword basically breaks even using Tandem Strike when compared to a Str eidolon simply attacking normally twice. A reach weapon like a guisarme trades some damage for more safety and flexibility with reach and reach tripping, which imo is really nice and probably worth it.

But dropping down to smaller weapons (especially if you go a dex build, especially at lower levels) you rapidly start to fall behind on damage, and spending a 6th level feat to basically break even is already not the best feeling.

Tandem Strike is your only real build support for this kind of concept too, so pre-6 it's definitely a little rough and you're mostly going to be making yourself worse every time you try to wade into combat on your summoner half.

Yeah I suppose with the action economy having the both of you moving into place and then attacking would be hard. Oh well. Maybe I can strike with attack spells from a distance and flavor it as using a bow and arrow, you know, reskin it cosmetically. It’s a game of pretend after all. Haha.

[Ventnor]

While this wouldn't really work with a monster rider build, one thought I had to make a more melee-adjacent summoner is to have the summoner learn some Battle Form spells. Maybe even multiclass into Druid to get Wild Shape, though that would likely not be as good towards the end of the campaign since multiclass Druids can't get the real high-end Wild Shape feats.

[Dargath]

Well ironically in monster Hunter stories you don’t spend a great deal of time riding the monster itself but rather fighting alongside it, so it’s less of a Calvary build and more of a partnership. There are loads of ways to support your monster such as buffing items, healing items, status removal items, actions that buff such as cheer or pet which heals. You gradually fill a meter which allows you to ride the monster in combat but this is mainly to unleash its super move for massive damage then you hop off and resume fighting beside your monster.

In the out world there are benefits to riding the monster such as flying, swimming, breaking rocks, moving super fast, burrowing under ground or walking on lava depending on the monster, very much similar to Pokémon HMs.

I’ve concluded something like reflavoring spells such as Heal into “Mega Potion” or Barkskin into “Armorskin” or Heroism into “Cheer” Etc. Items and command abilities as represented by spells in this particular game. In addition basic attack cantrips would represent attacking with a Bow since there’s Bows and Gunbows in Monster Hunter. In Monster Hunter Stories 2 there’s just the Bow however.

Also Monster Hunter doesn’t have armor types so while it all looks like medium to heavy armor nothing says I can’t say I look like I’m wearing Tigrex armor or Rathalos armor right? It’s like transmog haha.