Help me approximate a Gunlance

[SaveVersus]

Hiya.

So I want to make a Gunlance from Monster Hunter.

I'm not asking for a homebrew 1-for-1 weapon, or use a 3rd party product, but I want to use what's available from Paizo.

Right now, I'm looking at Inventor class with a spear and shield.
I think the feats will approximate some of the abilities, like launching and wyrm staking, maybe shelling.
I'd like a one-handed lance, but I don't think that exists (sans Jousting), or maybe a two-handed weapon with Parry?

Is there something I'm missing, like maybe a dedication, or is there a weapon in a book I don't know about?

[aobst128]

There's the three peaked tree combination weapon that's like a gun spear. On the simple side there's the fire lance but that thing stinks. Do you plan on making a unique combination weapon or something else entirely?

[Ezekieru]

SaveVersus wrote:

Hiya.

So I want to make a Gunlance from Monster Hunter.

I'm not asking for a homebrew 1-for-1 weapon, or use a 3rd party product, but I want to use what's available from Paizo.

Right now, I'm looking at Inventor class with a spear and shield.
I think the feats will approximate some of the abilities, like launching and wyrm staking, maybe shelling.
I'd like a one-handed lance, but I don't think that exists (sans Jousting), or maybe a two-handed weapon with Parry?

Is there something I'm missing, like maybe a dedication, or is there a weapon in a book I don't know about?

Take a gander at the combination weapons from Guns & Gears, they are literally a gun + a weapon, and the critical spec for the melee weapon lets you fire the gun, much like the exploding thrusts of the Gunlance.

For combo weapons, check out the Three Peaked Tree. It's an elven martial weapon that can fulfill your fantasy pretty well.

See about picking up feats with the Bastion archetype to better use the shields. And figure out if you wanna block damage with a Sturdy Shield, or to gain more AC with a tower shield.

[SaveVersus]

I completely forgot about combo weapons. 😅

I don't want to create something ad hoc if I can avoid it.

The Three Peaked Tree seems like I'd waste the Thrown and Tethered traits... and demand I'd be an Elf (I'm not opposed to that though).

I think the Piercing Wind might fit my needs. Oddly enough... it doesn't do Piercing damage, but I can take the Hampering Spikes innovation to get that.

I really like the idea of a tower shield for the Cover, but I can't use Shield Block then, can I?

[breithauptclan]

You don't have to be an Elf. The weapon is uncommon, but that just means that you have to have something to justify having the weapon. Being an Elf is only one possible option to do that.

Once you have access to the weapon, it is just a regular martial firearm weapon.

[Ezekieru]

SaveVersus wrote:

I completely forgot about combo weapons.

I don't want to create something ad hoc if I can avoid it.

The Three Peaked Tree seems like I'd waste the Thrown and Tethered traits... and demand I'd be an Elf (I'm not opposed to that though).

I think the Piercing Wind might fit my needs. Oddly enough... it doesn't do Piercing damage, but I can take the Hampering Spikes innovation to get that.

I really like the idea of a tower shield for the Cover, but I can't use Shield Block then, can I?

For the first part, you don't HAVE to be an elf to wield it. The Elf trait just gives access to it for elves right away, and it interacts with their Weapon Familiarity feat pretty well. But hey, Piercing Wind is pretty good, too!

As for the tower shield, you /could/ still Shield Block with it... but then it'd most likely be broken/destroyed in the process. Sturdy shields would be better to block with.

The Viking archetype has some shield feats to it as well, including a feat that lets you switch out a broken shield for a new one. So that's another way you can play it off.

[aobst128]

Only issue with the three peaked tree is that it's 2 handed. As for the tower shield, you can still block with it assuming you raised it before hand. Piercing wind has some good traits. Sweep and forceful supports the wild swinging that gunlances can do nowadays. Just stinks it's a d4.

[SaveVersus]

I'm liking the Bastion dedication more than the Viking one.

Here's a conundrum though, and maybe pushing the envelope too much.

Do you think Bastion's Nimble Shield Hand would allow me to use Piercing Wind's Fatal Aim?

[Perpdepog]

SaveVersus wrote:

I'm liking the Bastion dedication more than the Viking one.

Here's a conundrum though, and maybe pushing the envelope too much.

Do you think Bastion's Nimble Shield Hand would allow me to use Piercing Wind's Fatal Aim?

The feat does say that you specifically can't wield a weapon in that hand, so my guess is no. Using Fatal Aim means having to wield the weapon in both hands to get the benefit.

[SaveVersus]

I misread Fatal Aim then. I basically CAN'T fire it as long as I have my shield. That doesn't bode well for Piercing Wind then.

[aobst128]

SaveVersus wrote:

I misread Fatal Aim then. I basically CAN'T fire it as long as I have my shield. That doesn't bode well for Piercing Wind then.

Not necessarily. With the inventor, your accuracy will mean you'll be making regular hits more than crits and piercing winds d6 one handed is better than the other combo weapons d4s for one handed firing. I'm not sure on the math but it probably works out in piercing winds favor. You could however, make the melee portion of piercing wind 2 handed via modification and forgo the shield to bump your melee up to a d6 and get access to fatal aim

[aobst128]

Nimble shield hand will be necessary to reload a firearm assuming you are holding a shield however. Capacity weapons like the mace multi pistol can be reloaded without a free hand a number of times equal to the capacity.

[SaveVersus]

aobst128 wrote:

Not necessarily. With the inventor, your accuracy will mean you'll be making regular hits more than crits and piercing winds d6 one handed is better than the other combo weapons d4s for one handed firing. I'm not sure on the math but it probably works out in piercing winds favor. You could however, make the melee portion of piercing wind 2 handed via modification and forgo the shield to bump your melee up to a d6 and get access to fatal aim

See, I thought the first part of Fatal Aim meant I could fire the weapon one handed, as long as my other hand "stabilizes" it. I was hoping Nimble Shield Hand would allow me to fire the weapon without dropping my shield.

Since it doesn't, that basically means I would fire volleys in combat until I'm in melee range, then swap to the combo-sword, pull out my shield, and never fire again that combat. That's not a bad idea, but that's not much different than using a bow and dropping it to use a dagger.

Fatal Aim wrote:

It’s possible to hold the stock of this weapon under one arm so you can fire it with a single hand as long as the other hand isn’t holding a weapon, shield, or anything else you would need to move and position, to ensure the weapon doesn’t slip out from under your arm.

It doesn't look like a lance, but maybe the Mace Multipistol would work better for what I'm imagining; It has Capacity 3, I can fire or strike with it one-handed, I can still Shove with it, at 7th I can give it Sweep.

[aobst128]

I forgot how fatal aim works again. Yeah, you need a completely free hand to fire it one handed. My bad

[Alchemic_Genius]

All of these will need some creative reflavoring, but:

-slide pistol or pepperbox witha bayonet can stab and shoot, and can be used by any class, and is one handed. This gets you stanbing and shelling, wyvern stake through something that deals persistent damage

-Inventor can take the mace multipistol and slap one of the mods on it to give it versatile p. Wyverns5ake in this case can be crit fusion, megaton strike, or something similar

-Fire Lance; it's 2 handed, and needs to be regripped from melee to range, but works as a spear or a gun. Gunslinger has a feat that lets you parry with a gun. Vanguard Gunslinger with this feat actually gets pretty close to the fighting style, plus you can use blast charge for the little rocket boost thing and other shenanigans. Wyvern stake via alchemical shot works really awesome for this. See about dipping inventor for the deadly simplicity mod for a bit of extra damage

[SaveVersus]

Inventor seemed like the most natural choice since I thought I could mimic the special attacks with feats, but I'll have to reread Gunslinger again. The imbedding Interact to reload also mimics the gunlance's Quick Reload.

EDIT: With Way of the Sniper I could use a tower shield and get a reload when I Take Cover... very cool.

[aobst128]

SaveVersus wrote:

Inventor seemed like the most natural choice since I thought I could mimic the special attacks with feats, but I'll have to reread Gunslinger again. The imbedding Interact to reload also mimics the gunlance's Quick Reload.

Stab and blast is also pretty on point for gunlance gameplay.

[SaveVersus]

aobst128 wrote:

Stab and blast is also pretty on point for gunlance gameplay.

+1 +1 +1

[HenshinFanatic]

Honestly, I'd go with Way of the Drifter or Way of the Sniper if using Gunslinger as a base depending on how much slaplance you want to include, though personally I'd go with either Fighter or Champion as base and Free Archetype the Multiclass for Gunslinger. As for the GL itself, while this is homebrew it follows the precedent set with the Three Peaked Tree and other Combination Weapons. It upgrades the spear portion to a martial weapon (and because of that switches out thrown 20 ft for reach otherwise remaining unchanged, just like how the trident portion of the Three Peaked Tree gains Tethered and Elf (the latter to match the Mythril Tree's ancestry trait) without the usual damage decrease (probably because spears aren't the best weapon group in 2E).

Gunlance
Melee
Damage 1d6 P; Group Spear; Traits Critical Fusion, Reach.
Ranged
Access The following regions have access to firearms: Alkenstar, Dongun Hold, Tian Xia, Vudra, Arcadia, Ustalav, the Shackles
Price 21 gp; Damage 1d6 P; Bulk 3
Hands 1; Range 10 ft.; Reload 1
Category Martial
Ammunition Firearm Ammunition (10 rounds)
Group Firearm; Traits Capacity 5, Combination, Concussive, Fatal d10, Uncommon
Despite the misleading name, this mighty weapon is actually a combination of a spear and a slide pistol. Developed on the Alkenstar frontier, this weapon was designed as a dependable way to deal with roving mutant monstrosities from the Mana Wastes and has since spread as a favored choice among those that hunt all kinds of monsters.

[SaveVersus]

Free Archetype is a variant rule, so I didn't want to lean on it.

The Defensive Armaments feat let's a Gunslinger use a 2H ranged weapon to Parry. Not as great as a shield, but it might do.

Just realized that feat mimics Heavy Bow Gun pretty well.

And that looks like a pretty fair GL. You could even drop Reach for Scatter and Capacity 3(Wide Shelling), or drop Reach for 20 ft (Long Shelling).

[Alchemic_Genius]

I'd drop reach, personally; combo weapons are usually about two simple weapons taped together, and 1 handed reach is a highly prized thing in weapon math. Otherwise it looks p good, tbh

[SaveVersus]

It's cool they even made such a long list.

Shows they knew not everyone wanted to play Squall.

[aobst128]

A 2 handed reach combo weapon would be pretty cool though. A longspear + musket or Harmonia gun like the gun sword has would be pretty handy for a vanguard with stab and blast. It's a shame that there's no substantial mechanical advantage to combo weapons other than the gold they save you in runes. We need some standout ones that can do something that attached weapons can't like reach.

[Dovahkiin Zord]

Hello guys, how is it going? I am also interested in adapting Gun Lance to Pathfinder or D&D 5ed

[Dragonhearthx]

The Lancer weapon has screamed "gunlance" to me. It's a Spear with a crossbow but with critical fusion you can stab and fire. It also has capacity 2, so you can shoot twice before you need to reload. So 2 shells. The only question is, does the reload 2 mean you get back both shots or just one?

Don't forget with gunslinger you are penalized for using anything other than a gun or crossbow. By my reading, that does include combination weapons. (Not sure how triggerbrand interacts)

[aobst128]

Dragonhearthx wrote:

The Lancer weapon has screamed "gunlance" to me. It's a Spear with a crossbow but with critical fusion you can stab and fire. It also has capacity 2, so you can shoot twice before you need to reload. So 2 shells. The only question is, does the reload 2 mean you get back both shots or just one?

Don't forget with gunslinger you are penalized for using anything other than a gun or crossbow. By my reading, that does include combination weapons. (Not sure how triggerbrand interacts)

Capacity doesn't work like that unfortunately. Capacity 2 means that you can reload with one action for your second shot and then it defaults to 2 actions for each "barrel" afterwards. And yes, your gunslinger accuracy would only apply to the gun or crossbow parts of combo weapons.

[masda_gib]

There is also the Blast Lance(from Outlaws of Alkenstar): https://pf2easy.com/index.php?id=21444&name=blast_lance

It's a magic item, not a base weapon. But it's exactly a lance with added pew-pew.

[graystone]

masda_gib wrote:

There is also the Blast Lance(from Outlaws of Alkenstar): https://pf2easy.com/index.php?id=21444&name=blast_lance

It's a magic item, not a base weapon. But it's exactly a lance with added pew-pew.

It's only for contact-shooting though [like a powerhead/bang stick/shark stick]: it doesn't allow for any ranged attacks.

[MEATSHED]

Gunlances in monster hunter also don't really have ranged attacks, I'm pretty sure the gun attacks have less range than some of the thrusting attacks from the lance.

[graystone]

MEATSHED wrote:

Gunlances in monster hunter also don't really have ranged attacks, I'm pretty sure the gun attacks have less range than some of the thrusting attacks from the lance.

Could be? I personally haven't played the game. It just know every other post was referencing ranged + melee options specifics only so I pointed out it didn't fit the pattern.

[MEATSHED]

Yeah that's fair, its an odd weapon. My thought was that the blast lance is just like a direct reference to gunlances. If the actually having ranged attacks is important than yeah go a combination weapon.

[Tactical Drongo]

gunlances indeed dont have ranged

the blast lance is a pretty good approximation and with a decent gm you could easily add exta levels on top

bonus point if you can use it with a shield and joused without being mounted :P

then you basically got a gunlancer

[Perpdepog]

Has anyone suggested the lancer yet?