Advice on building a Dragonrider with archery

[Xeram]

Good day all.

I'm to build a Dragonrider PC.

Our build rules:
Races, uncommon excluded.

15 point buy.
Dragonriders, by description, are often ranged oriented, which matches what character i am basing this on,

Spoiler:

Claude from Fire Emblem 3 Houses

and they have spellcasting progress like a ranger/paladin.

I'm inclined to use human, since feats for the minimum of viability.

Str 11 Dex 17 (14 +2 racial +1 lvl 4) Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 14
Lvl 8 ability increase is Dex

Feats, as we're lvl 6 to start:
1) Mounted Combat
1) Racial: PBS
3) Precise shot
5) Deadly aim
5) Class: mounted archery

Future feats:
7) Vital Strike
8) Class: Weapon focus (longbow)
9) Greater Weapon focus (longbow)

I might be willing to dip something, it would delay class feats slightly, but i don't want to lose too much of my dragon mount's progression.

Is this viable/workable for support?

[Name Violation]

Take rapid shot before deadly aim.
Don't worry about vital strike, grab manyshot instead.
Take the indomitable mount feat.

[TxSam88]

I would take the weapon focus feats as early as possible, +1 to hit matters way more at lower levels than at higher levels.

[Xeram]

Switching weapon focus with another is doable, true. Class bonus feats do include both mounted combat & mounted archery.

Name Violation wrote:

Take rapid shot before deadly aim.

My concern is also that, since the class isn't damage ace like say Zen archer/fighter or similar, i'd need to get some damage in a good shot, hence deadly aim and vital strike.

1) Pc: Weapon focus (longbow)
1) Human: PBS
3) Precise shot
5) Pc: Greater weapon focus (longbow)
5) Class: Mounted Combat
----------------
7) Rapid shot
8) Class: Mounted Archery
9) Deadly aim

[Belafon]

Xeram wrote:

Switching weapon focus with another is doable, true. Class bonus feats do include both mounted combat & mounted archery.

Name Violation wrote:

Take rapid shot before deadly aim.

My concern is also that, since the class isn't damage ace like say Zen archer/fighter or similar, i'd need to get some damage in a good shot, hence deadly aim and vital strike.

Rapid Shot vs. Deadly Aim is debatable. Math depends on just how much you hit, but at BAB +4, Deadly Aim adds 4 damage and Rapid Shot adds 1d8+STR+Enhancement. Rapid Shot is usually more damage.

Vital Strike is only good if you are only taking one attack in a round. Something an archer rarely does. Especially a mounted, flying archer.

Realizing this is a 3rd-party class and I might be missing something, I don't think you'll ever be eligible for Greater Weapon Focus. Certainly not at 5th level.

[Xeram]

Belafon wrote:

Rapid Shot vs. Deadly Aim is debatable. Math depends on just how much you hit, but at BAB +4, Deadly Aim adds 4 damage and Rapid Shot adds 1d8+STR+Enhancement. Rapid Shot is usually more damage.

Could be if str bonus and a the ownership of a composite bow.

But with the 15 pt buy, raising strength further wasn't much an option. Unless i'd lower charisma, and raise it to 14 at lvl 12. Lvl 4 spells are available only at high levels.

[VoodistMonk]

I just can't get over that this class gets full BAB, all good saves, spells, bonus feats, and a dragon. Lol.

Other than that, just build a decent mounted archer... I would try avoid stacking up additional penalties. Rapid Shot is a flat penalty, whilst Deadly Aim's penalty will grow according to your BAB.

Does this class somehow count as a Fighter for the sake of meeting prerequisites for feats? Because you have Greater Weapon Focus listed, and that requires you to be an 8th-level Fighter.

[Xeram]

Yes, i've noticed about GWF.

Leaves a slot open for perhaps toughness, or some other improvement, spirited charge perhaps. A swooping charge with a reach weapon is pretty neat.

[Name Violation]

*cough* manyshot feat *cough*
*cough* indomitable mount feat *cough cough*

[Derklord]

Xeram wrote:

spirited charge perhaps. A swooping charge with a reach weapon is pretty neat.

Not with 11 strength, and probably at best a +1 lance because the rest of the weapon budget went into your bow.

Xeram wrote:

i'd need to get some damage in a good shot, hence (...) vital strike.

The math simply doesn't work out - a full attack does more damage than using Vital Strike, even without Rapid Shot or Haste.

[Xeram]

Derklord wrote:

Xeram wrote:

spirited charge perhaps. A swooping charge with a reach weapon is pretty neat.

Not with 11 strength, and probably at best a +1 lance because the rest of the weapon budget went into your bow.

What would you say a workable strength for that? 14? Our 15 point buy went up to 20 point buy.

[Derklord]

The question is, why do you want melee stuff to begin with? A full attack with a bow does more damage, and with a flying mount, you can virtually always make a ranged full attack.

[Xeram]

I agree with you on that.

Though i can't always rely on my arrows from above to hit. (for example wind wall, heavy cover, enclosed spaces, some terrain will be forest/jungle)

There would come a moment where i'd need to adjust my approach in combat.

[Temperans]

Xeram wrote:

I agree with you on that.

Though i can't always rely on my arrows from above to hit. (for example wind wall, heavy cover, enclosed spaces, some terrain will be forest/jungle)

There would come a moment where i'd need to adjust my approach in combat.

Wind wall you can defeat with cyclonic enchantment. Cover can similarly be taken care off with weapon enchanments. Unless you are multiclassing to solve the lack of feats, archery is way to feat intensive to justify not taking as many of the feats as you can. Ex: Point-Blank Master letting you shoot in melee, or teamwork feats like Broken Wing Gambit with Snap Shot.

[Xeram]

Temperans wrote:

Ex: Point-Blank Master letting you shoot in melee,

Yup, except i'd have to take 4 levels of fighter, or 6 in ranger, for that. Due to the requirement of Weapon specialization or the ranger archery style.

Everyone, thanks for the brainstorming, and have a good weekend.

[Jonathan Morgantini]

Moved from PF1 Rules to 3PP rules questions

[ShadowcatX]

VoodistMonk wrote:

I just can't get over that this class gets full BAB, all good saves, spells, bonus feats, and a dragon. Lol.

Wait til you hear about corre monk dude, all good saves, bonus feats and an ability that both counts as full BAB AND grants extra attacks. AND they get tons more class features. Totes broken.

Honestly though this class isn't OP at all, they suffer the monk problem of having nothing to boost their to hit and damage unless they can spend time self buffing and unlike animal companions dragon mounts tend not to break action economy until high level. Imagine a Paladin without smite evil and you're pretty close.

That said I do think they could combine well with spheres, especially SoM.

[ShadowcatX]

Jonathan Morgantini wrote:

Moved from PF1 Rules to 3PP rules questions

Thank you so much for moving this thread that hasn't had a reply in 3 months. Ace job.

VoodistMonk wrote:

I just can't get over that this class gets full BAB, all good saves, spells, bonus feats, and a dragon. Lol.

Wait til you hear about corre monk dude, all good saves, bonus feats and an ability that both counts as full BAB AND grants extra attacks. AND they get tons more class features. Totes broken.

Honestly though this class isn't OP at all, they suffer the monk problem of having nothing to boost their to hit and damage unless they can spend time self buffing and unlike animal companions dragon mounts tend not to break action economy until high level. Imagine a Paladin without smite evil and you're pretty close.

That said I do think they could combine well with spheres, especially SoM