Wizard, Arcanist or Mesmerist for a caster focused on Enchantment and Illusion spells..?

[Merellin]

So, I'm currently playing in Skull & Shackles as a Kineticist but I was tossing arround an idea for a backup character who is a caster (Have not played many casters so I wanna try more..) focused on Enchantment and Illusion spells.

I came to Wizard, Arcanist and Mesmerist, Wizard and Arcanist can learn all the spells thanks to their books so they have the versatility of having non enchantment or illusion spells for when such spells are not effective, While the Mesmerist can pick up Psychic Inception to make their mind affecting spells have a chance to affect creatures immune to mind affecting spells. Mesmerists are also charisma based so they can let me easily be a party face, Something I'v also wanted to try for a while..

What do you all think the strengths and weaknesses of theese three classes are for a enchantment and illusion focused caster?

[Doompatrol]

I would look at the Psychic, it also has a strong enchantment illusion focus, some spells earlier than the sorcerer/wizard, amplifications that increase the DC saves and one that lets them affect undead without the Mesmerists fail chance. It can also be a good face either with student of philosophy or a charisma discipline, it gets all the face skills.

The biggest weakness would be that the Mesmerist suffers the most in situations where enchantment/illusion spells aren't that useful, needing to fall back on its tricks, the wizard and psychic spell list has better access to more general spells as well like haste and fly

[Merellin]

Oh? I'l check out the Psychic then, Thanks. :)

The only casters I played are a Cleric (My first character ever, Some 6 years ago when I had no idea what I was doing..) A couple of Alchemists, And a Summoner. So my experiences with casters is rather limited with only one full caster..

[Mysterious Stranger]

Another option would be sorcerer. A Fey bloodline Kitsune sorcerer can crank up the DC to their enchantment spells to the point that even a high level cleric has trouble making them.

Both prepared and spontaneous casters have their advantages. Both of them can suffer from poor spell selection. Prepared casters actually have a greater chance of choosing the wrong spells. Having to decide each what to memorize in each slot often means that you don’t memorize enough of the right spells. Often what happens is even when you memorize the right spells you don’t memorize enough of a particular spell. For example if you are facing incorporeal opponents and you only memorize one magic missile. The good news is you can adapt more easily and can learn a lot of situational spells. Prepared casters are actually a lot of work.

Spontaneous casters have to be very careful of their spell selection or they can permanently screw up their character. But in play they are often a lot more flexible than a prepared caster. As long as I have a spell slot equal or greater to a known spell I can cast that spell. If your spell are fairly flexible and can be adapted to the situation you have a huge advantage. If your spells are too focused you lose a lot of power. Illusion and enchantments are incredibly flexible. With illusions often the real limit is the imagination of the player.

Arcanists have the advantage and disadvantage of both styles. Overall it is positive, but since they have an even more limited number of spells they can memorize it will be a lot more work. The other downside of an Arcanist is they are more MAD than other casters. Most casters need their casting stat and DEX and CON. An Arcanist need INT and CHA plus DEX and CON. In a low point buy campaign this can be a significant issue.

[Merellin]

A Sorcerer would suffer from not being able to affect creatures immune to mind affecting effects, Unlike the mesmerist, But would still just like the mesmerist ahve a very limited ammount of spells known so they couldn't diversify out of Enchantment too much.. So they couldn't do too much if they come up aainst undead or other creatures immune to mind affecting..

Maybe I'm just overcomplicating things... I wanna try more casters, But at the same time every time I try to work on a full arcane caster, or class that focuses on their spells I end up with the feeling that I cant handle it...

Maybe i'm just intended to stick to the martials and 6th level casters...

[Doompatrol]

If you play sorcerer or psychic you would just need to make sure you have a mixture of enchantment/illusion and general spells. So for example at 3rd level you would have your choice of a mind altering spell and haste. It shouldn't be that hard if you start from the beginning and get use to your spells as you level. You will easily have enough options to not need to worry about mind immune enemies

Mysterious Stranger recommended Kitsune Sorcerer, the only thing I would have to say about that is that if the opponent isn't immune to mind effects, it can be too good and may annoy the GM. The save DC's can get crazy high with that one.

[Sysryke]

Merellin wrote:

A Sorcerer would suffer from not being able to affect creatures immune to mind affecting effects, Unlike the mesmerist, But would still just like the mesmerist ahve a very limited ammount of spells known so they couldn't diversify out of Enchantment too much.. So they couldn't do too much if they come up aainst undead or other creatures immune to mind affecting..

Maybe I'm just overcomplicating things... I wanna try more casters, But at the same time every time I try to work on a full arcane caster, or class that focuses on their spells I end up with the feeling that I cant handle it...

Maybe i'm just intended to stick to the martials and 6th level casters...

I tend to favor spontaneous casters, though I've played and enjoyed both. Something to remember about the Sorcerer though, with the right bloodlines (and maybe some feats) you can use mind affecting spells on vermin, undead, constructs, and/or other normally immune creature categories. Mesmerist might have a slight edge on this, but not a huge one. The rest of the advice others have given you is all super solid.

If you're feeling overwhelmed by full caster, then spontaneous is a good way to ease yourself into that realm.

All that said, Mesmerist is built exactly for the concept you're describing. You just need to decide how dedicated to the concept you wish to be. Your race, feat, trait, skill, and gear selections can all give you some options for when your main shtick doesn't work.

And, I'll try and Ninja Mark a tiny bit. Don't forget/neglect/underestimate the value of UMD and consumables.

[Melkiador]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Arcanists have the advantage and disadvantage of both styles. Overall it is positive, but since they have an even more limited number of spells they can memorize it will be a lot more work. The other downside of an Arcanist is they are more MAD than other casters. Most casters need their casting stat and DEX and CON. An Arcanist need INT and CHA plus DEX and CON. In a low point buy campaign this can be a significant issue.

The arcanist can pretty comfortably dump charisma. Most of the best exploits don’t care about charisma at all. In fact, most of the charisma based exploits are considered pretty bad.

[Evilserran]

Nine tailed scion kitsune sorcerer can get dominate by level 7....

[*Khan*]

Or shadow oracle. I took the deep one curse.
Once you get shadow enchantment, spontaneous casting is very flexibel.
The mix between cleric spell list, illusions and darkness spells are very good.

Spells like these:
1. Comprehend Language, Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements, Liberating Command, Murderous Command, Sanctuary, Shadow Trap, Tap Inner Beauty.
2. Lev: Inflict moderat wounds, Invisibility, Searching Shadows, Twilight Haze, Aboleths Lung, Delay Poison, Enthrall, Lesser Restoration, Silence.
3. Lev: Inflict serious wounds, Deeper Darkness, Twined Double, Shadow Enchantment, Summon Monster III, Prayer.

[Azothath]

Illusion suffers from GM interpretation and can go either way.
Both(Ill & Ench) suffer as they are short term fixes that don't kill the targets, so a delay/confusion tactic. However both are pretty good at dealing with mainly intelligent humanoids & creatures.

Normally I advocate a Wizard specialist, normally divination or conjuration, and then focus on whatever school you're actually doing. It also depends on the level progression of the game(1-12th or beyond) and the challenges you'll be facing (humans/humanoids, undead, outdoor encounters, extraplanar adventures).
Choose a bonded amulet rather than a familiar. Aegis of Recovery and then Amulet of Spell Mastery at half off.
Spell slot and selection items are half cost spontaneous caster's.
You need INT and then DEX & CHA(as you'll be dealing with diplomacy issues).
Samsaran and Mythic Past Lives will let you pick up an array of spells (likely from the Witch list).
Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter traits can lower metamagic costs on two spells.
Magical Knack if you need to multiclass.

[Michael Talley 759]

Both are interesting ideas for Skulls and Shackles as Backup characters.

I've found the best Illusionists as Bards, Generally focusing on being spies Disguise Self, Image spells for creating props and performance Acting.

1st- Disguise Self
2nd- Invisibility
3rd- Invisibility Sphere
4th- Greater Invisibility
5th- Mislead
6th- Programmed Image

these would help your character move around and at the highest casting with Programmed Image, create an illusionary Dupe that can die for you if someone breaks into your room (generally pair it with the spell Alarm and the Programmed Image can be triggered with it going off)

Most GM's however generally forget Illusion spells only get the will save from directly interacting with the Illusion spell so it's a good rule of thumb to make sure the GM of the game remembers and know this mechanic. Otherwise, you might run into the GM that says all NPC's get a will save from just seeing the image.

Enchantment can be good for short-term gains and if you can role play it well, can even convince the target there was no spell and they really are your friend (or at least they like you) Still Spell, Silent spell and good Bluff/Diplomacy Checks are very useful :3

[UnArcaneElection]

Other 6/9 caster options for Enchantment and Illusion are Puppetmaster Magus (if you can figure out a good way to use their bizarre modifications of the Magus action economy boosters) and Skald (if you need some spell that's out of your normal focus really bad, Spell Kenning can save you, and if you haven't used up your Spell Kenning at the end of the day, use it with the Scribe Scroll that you also get).