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Honestly, why are people arguing against this? It is such a minor thing that has virtually no capacity to make things works, and has some potential to make things better.
Some people need to step back and ask "What if I'm wrong?". One one hand, changing it is a minor inconvenience at most. The other side is continuing to marginalize a group of people.
It's the same forum members, usually, arguing back and forth. I don't care about the name change, but if I let my cynic speak, Bullman only did this because 5e still uses phylactery. J/K!
What is to argue about? Oh right, differentiating interpretations, isims and politics. Look to Winsome Sears argument that Black people are tired of Liberal Democrats speaking down to her and other blacks because they have a different opinion. How you present your argument is key. If you are not careful, you'll trigger spite and retrenching. Never underestimate humanity's ability to ignore what's best for a good dose of spite.
Anyhooty, phylactery isn't going away iirc only the evil version used by the Lich.
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As usual the Noble Wolf gets it right imo. Such an interesting contrasts imo. Both sides can express their pleasure/displeasure at the change yet the second is because of intolerance and the first emotional pain. Seems that whomever agrees with the majority who like the change can express however they feel like and yet everyone else is intolerant.
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So, what the goal post shift you have done here is extreme, I don't think you know you even did it.
The goalpost is firmly planted. Thank you. You need to be in two different spots, so it looks like its moving to you.
On the one hand, you need to be able to decide between two opposing views. But you've stated your position such that everyone's pain is real, everyone's pain is equal, and you can't pick between them. On the other hand you've decided that one of them is right.
That isn't tenable. If one person says that they're hurt by the use of phylactery, and someone says they're hurt by the change and annoyed by the political correctness. You decide the later is coming from intolerance and thus wrong. You say "re evaluate". You mean -you're wrong change your mind-
I'm not even saying you're wrong, but you have a decision making model here and it does in fact rank or minimize someones claims of pain.
My stance on feelings and opinions is that they are all fine to have until they cause someone else trauma.This is not tenable. What do you do if two people with opposing views both claim trauma ? What if someone is hurt by a perfectly rational opinion that others are right to have ? What if someone is traumatized by people holding opinions that are outright facts?
And telling someone that their opinion or feeling causes trauma is not causing trauma.This is an outright contradiction. Someone says it does. Now you're telling someone their trauma isn't real.
So everyones trauma is real except the person who says that being told they're causing trauma is causing trauma ?
Social interactions and moores are complex, subjective, context sensitive, things. There aren't any hard rules, there are at best guidelines, and people are never going to reach perfect agreement. People can live with that, or they can just form different groups with more like minded people. Someone isn't harmed just because someone they don't...
Again, we won't agree on this unless your philosophy that these words don't hurt changes.
So many words deleted here.
Opinions that hurt someone aren't benign opinions. Telling someone that their trauma doesn't exist because you have feelings is harmful.
I don't rank someones pain. I hear what they say and acknowledge it. You can't 'rank' someones pain. It's there's not mine.
And yes, that is what re evaluate means. If your opinion is hurtful/harmful I have no problem in telling you so. It is up to you if you want to continue discussing it but blanket stating that someone's pain isn't valid is a non starter.
My stance has been tenable for over 20 years. And often times 2 sides of an argument both have trauma. My stance doesn't negate one or the other. Compromise comes from understanding that you have trauma and you may have caused trauma and trying to repair trauma..... What you state is not what I state. It is a firm misunderstanding of what I am saying though.
As for Rational opinions? Every opinion is rationalized. Doesn't make harmful opinions ok to have or impose.
Nah, it's only a contradiction for people who get their feelings hurt for being told they are causing pain.
Paradox of Tolerance friend. You can feel it is a contradiction but without it only negativity will exist. Feel free to actually look it up this time and digest it how you will.
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As usual the Noble Wolf gets it right imo. Such an interesting contrasts imo. Both sides can express their pleasure/displeasure at the change yet the second is because of intolerance and the first emotional pain. Seems that whomever agrees with the majority who like the change can express however they feel like and yet everyone else is intolerant.
Harmful Opinion:
This is so minor I can't believe anyone would be hurt by the word.Opinion:
Man, I didn't know that the word could be harmful and am gutted because I really liked the way it worked in the theme.
Harmful Action:
I am going to go tell people I believe their trauma isn't real.
Editted:
Slightly Less Harfmul Action:
I am gutted that they are changing the word and going to state it. But Not tell people I don't believe that the trauma the experience isn't real.
Action:
I am going to keep that I am gutted to myself and understand that just because I am gutted the word is being changed I may not fully understand other peoples trauma.
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Opinions are in our heads. Actions are being called out. Just happens that the action is stating a harmful opinion. Also stands to reason that people here don't think that minimizing other peoples trauma is actually adding fuel to the fire/causing more trauma.
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Honestly, why are people arguing against this? It is such a minor thing that has virtually no capacity to make things works, and has some potential to make things better.
Some people need to step back and ask "What if I'm wrong?". One one hand, changing it is a minor inconvenience at most. The other side is continuing to marginalize a group of people.
It's the same forum members, usually, arguing back and forth. I don't care about the name change, but if I let my cynic speak, Bullman only did this because 5e still uses phylactery. J/K!
What is to argue about? Oh right, differentiating interpretations, isims and politics. Look to Winsome Sears argument that Black people are tired of Liberal Democrats speaking down to her and other blacks because they have a different opinion. How you present your argument is key. If you are not careful, you'll trigger spite and retrenching. Never underestimate humanity's ability to ignore what's best for a good dose of spite.
Anyhooty, phylactery isn't going away iirc only the evil version used by the Lich.
Well said.
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Again, we won't agree on this unless your philosophy that these words don't hurt changes.
The idea that all hurts are equal, real, and justified is a non starter. Flat earthers are harmed by the idea that other people think they're wrong, so round earthers need to re evaluate their opinions.
It is internally contradictory and unworkable on every level. If you have to argue that far down the rabbit hole to argue that people were being hurt by the word you don't have an argument. (It doesn't mean you're wrong it just means the argument you were trying for it didn't work)
Feel free to actually look it up this time and digest it how you will.
And with that I'm going to rescind the thank you.
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Again, we won't agree on this unless your philosophy that these words don't hurt changes.The idea that all hurts are equal, real, and justified is a non starter. Flat earthers are harmed by the idea that other people think they're wrong, so round earthers need to re evaluate their opinions.
It is internally contradictory and unworkable on every level. If you have to argue that far down the rabbit hole to argue that people were being hurt by the word you don't have an argument. (It doesn't mean you're wrong it just means the argument you were trying for it didn't work)
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Seconded and well said.
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Going a bit off topic...Ever since 2008, we've been sleuthing about for clues into the mind of Gary Gygax. My conclusion is that you can celebrate the artists works without agreeing, liking, or hating the creator. Clearly Mr. Gygax had flaws. We all do. He is dead. May he rest in peace.
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Learning Freehold Is Learning
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I can't remember the last time I cared about Gygax.
I do, but for very egotistical reasons.
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I don’t think about him 24/7 either I will honour in my thoughts as getting into the hobby as my first rpg was 1E D&D.
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TSR was facing backlash due to the Satanic panic of 1980s at the time. If enough Jewish fans asked for the name to be changed at the time TSR response would have been “ nah we don’t have to listen you as your not Catholic or Christian” . Give me a break. You all act like other racial groups can’t speak for themselves or won’t speak up if offended.
Many of you don’t want to accept for the majority of Jews simply are not offended by the term and want make excuses for them to be offended. Whether they want it or not. Let the Jewish people come forward and if the majority are offended by it remove it. They won’t but by all means keep acting both offended and speaking on their behalf. It’s not patronizing at all or anything.
If you aren’t Jewish, maybe shouldn’t tell those of us who are what we should do.
People have done that throughout history, and that never turns out well. So, please, quit while you are behind.
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At the same time if one claims that another person can’t speak on how a person should be feel about a word , neither can one also claim that they are offended by it. You can’t have it both ways imo and that is what here want to do.
Say that we cannot tell others how we feel yet also claim that I would be offended.
A person need not be a member of a group or classification of people to be offended by words which are offensive to members of that group.
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I'm done with politics here, I like to play TTRPGS to get away from all of that. But if you really need something to argue about. I'm happy to argue on even numbers days that Starfinder is better than Pathfinder 2e and on odd days that Pathfinder 2e is better than Starfinder.
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I can't top this so no more comments from me. I know, I know, Grankless will be beside themselves with grief.Sadly, once moderation arrives, all of these moments will be lost. Like tears, in rain.
The Moderation Team, Goddess Bless Them, needs buffing.
Have you ever been in an institution? Cells.
Do they keep you in a cell? Cells.
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Are they mad they have to remember the name changed?
I hope its just another example of the unjustified/unreasonable online outrage effect. As I said up thread, I really don't care that Paizo decided to change the name. The object has always been a phylactery for me and I don't feel a need to stop using it. Maybe at some table in the future I will use the term and get a bunch of confused faces. I'll probably just say something like "oh, sorry, I think the kids are calling it a soul cage these days."
Creative Director
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... I'll probably just say something like "oh, sorry, I think the kids are calling it a soul cage these days."
As the one who suggested "soul cage" as the new name in the first place and who wrote the blurb that appears in the Adventure Path where we first revealed this change, I'll take that as a compliment, since I'll be turning 50 in a few months!
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Thirteen Cages.
Now there is something I'd love to see modernized and updated with Pf2: Shackled City!
Say, whatever happened to the Downer artist? Kyle Hunter IIRC
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Thirteen Cages.Now there is something I'd love to see modernized and updated with Pf2: Shackled City!
Say, whatever happened to the Downer artist? Kyle Hunter IIRC
Shackled City is 100% owned by Wizards of the Coast. Any updates that might be done to it would have to be either done by them, or done by someone they license to do the update, and WotC would get to choose to what system it got updated to. Same for Age of Worms, Savage Tide, and all the other adventures from Dungeon magazine.
As for Kyle? He's an art director at Paizo these days.
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TLDR: Wait, liches are always evil?
News to me... :)
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"Liches always want musical numbers!'
TLDR: Wait, liches are always evil?
"I'm not evil... I'm just filmed that way!"
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... I'll probably just say something like "oh, sorry, I think the kids are calling it a soul cage these days."As the one who suggested "soul cage" as the new name in the first place and who wrote the blurb that appears in the Adventure Path where we first revealed this change, I'll take that as a compliment, since I'll be turning 50 in a few months!
Huh, weird to realize you are younger than my parents :'D I mean I'm approaching thirty, but I haven't really gotten over the part when over 5 years ago I was less than 25 and most people in hobby where 30-50 years old
Anyway, I agree that Soul Cage is much more evocative and descriptive word for it than phylactery even if you don't know what phylactery actually means
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Second take: As a filker, I note that Soul Cage is easier to rhyme than Phylactery. Just in case you want a musical for your lich.
Already done. Honestly, I haven't been able to get this song out of my head since I read the OP.