An arcane caster.

[Heather 540]

I've been having trouble with making my Seeker Sorcerer. So I've decided not to go that route. Since I'm already making a Slayer for the group, I'm going to let that character deal with trapfinding. It's a Slayer talent so I can give it to them at level 2.

That means I can use any arcane caster for the elf, other than Bard as that's been taken already. If I don't go with Sorcerer after all, I'm sure I can figure out a stat spread for the Slayer that will let them have a decent Cha. So that leaves wizard, summoner, arcanist, witch, and magus. I assume Mediums and Occultists are divine but I could be wrong. Is bloodrager considered a caster? I know that alchemist technically isn't one despite having Brew Potion.

I can probably pass on summoner as the cleric is focused on summoning. Don't want to crowd the battlefield too much. Magus does have a Cha based archetype, but I'm not sure if I want another person focused on direct combat, which is a fairly big part of the Magus. Wizards are very powerful once they level up, but are also complicated with the various schools and such.

Anyone have any advice on what class would be good? The other characters are a human cavalier, drow cleric, half-drow monk, orc bard, half-orc inquisitor, and half-elf slayer. Both the orcs are archers and the cleric is focused on summoning.

[Firebug]

Medium and Occultist are Psychic actually. But the Medium can gain access to the Cleric or Wizard lists up to 6th level with a days notice. Some archetypes do change it up though.

It seems like you are decent on damage in the party, so maybe something support-ish. Maybe something like a level dip in Dual-Cursed Oracle for Misfortune trigger some rerolls (note: you can use it on your allies when they roll poorly). Then maybe Witch with the Agility Patron for Haste and Freedom of Movement and careful selection of Hex and Spells.

Is there a particular reason you need Arcane other then Knowledge checks maybe?

Silksworn Occultist with a level dip in Spellslinger Wizard and Spell Cartridges?

[Heather 540]

Mostly covering all the bases. I have two divine casters and even the monk has a single level of cleric. Got two ranged attackers and 3 melee attackers. Basic HP healing is covered by anyone with a spell slot and condition removal is covered by the cleric and the inquisitor. But I only have one arcane caster who also happens to be the only one with a decent Cha stat. Having a second arcane caster means a bigger variety of spells available.

[avr]

An occultist can be psychic or divine depending on archetype, but it doesn't change their spell list. Anyway, the main differences between arcane and divine is more blasty, teleportation and weird stuff on the arcane side and more healing and buffs on the divine side. With exceptions in both cases.

Assuming that blasty, teleportation and weird stuff with the biggest variety possible is your aim a sorcerer did fit pretty well. What was the problem there - too few skill points? An Int-based spellcaster will obviously have more, and a wizard will have the most variety of spells. A spell sage or Poleiheira adherent archetype lean into that, and either comes with a concept built in.

[Heather 540]

It wasn't the sorcerer class itself, but that I couldn't figure out a decent way to have the sorcerer also be the trapfinder which would leave it vulnerable to sudden combat. And since I'm leaving the trapfinding to the slayer now, I figured that I could take a look at the other arcane classes and see what would be the best fit for the party. If the sorcerer is still the best fit, I can go with that. If not, I'll go with something else.

Though WHY do they give non-Int based full casters so few skill points? It makes sense for the Int based ones since their Int scores will be high. But the Wis and Cha based casters are totally screwed over.

[Melkiador]

If you want spell variety, I like arcanist. Quick study means you are only a full round action away from having access to any spell in your spellbook.

If you want to be both wizard and trap disarmer, an arcane trickster could be fun. 1 level of rogue with 3 levels of wizard and the accomplished sneak attacker feat can meet the prerequisites. So you only lose one level of spell casting, but can safely disarm traps from 30 feet away. And you can also use the Aram Zey’s Focus spell to make yourself even better at trap disarming. I prefer the divination wizard school for this since going first in combat will be even more important to you, but almost any kind of wizard should work.

[Heather 540]

Arcanist does look nice. Combines the best part of spontaneous casting and prepared casting. And some of the exploits are neat. But boy does it look MAD. Why are the spells Int based and the exploits Cha based?

[Melkiador]

Yeah. You can find quite a few good exploits that don’t care about your charisma though. I think many arcanists even dump charisma, though I like to keep at least 12 in it. I’d put it pretty low in your stat priority.

Intelligence > Dexterity > Constitution > Charisma > Strength > Wisdom

Of course that’s just my preference, but it’s worked well enough for me.

[Heather 540]

Going with elf and using a 20 point buy, I could get 15 in Dex, Int, and Cha, with a 10 in Str and a 12 in Con and Wis. I can get one of those 15s to a 16 buy dropping one of the others to 12. If I don't need Cha all that much, I could do that and leave a decently high Dex for AC purposes.

[avr]

An arcanist can use Cha 14+ or they might as well dump it hard due to the min 1 on many uses. 12 is pretty pointless for them. Also Str can definitely go below 10 if you need points.

[Heather 540]

I personally hate dropping Str since it means not being able to carry much. I know that gets to be a non-issue later with stat boosting items and Bags of Holding, but I hate seeing it early on.

Anyway, I can use another class that doesn't need both Cha and Int to make the stat spread easier. Maybe I'll make an arcanist later with a race that gets a Cha boost like gnomes or kitsune.

I can use a sorcerer like I was originally planning, just without the Seeker archetype. A 20 point buy there would be 10 Str, 15 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, and 15 Con. I could drop Wis to 13 and get Dex to 16. Or drop Wis to 12 and boost Cha to 16.

I am a little torn on which bloodline to take. Shadow would be a fun theme as the drow is nature-focused and likes sunlight due to that. But Arcane seems more useful.

[Melkiador]

avr wrote:

An arcanist can use Cha 14+ or they might as well dump it hard due to the min 1 on many uses. 12 is pretty pointless for them. Also Str can definitely go below 10 if you need points.

12 matters if you are expecting a charisma booster, like headband of mental prowess, which is common enough.

[Melkiador]

Heather 540 wrote:

Anyway, I can use another class that doesn't need both Cha and Int to make the stat spread easier. Maybe I'll make an arcanist later with a race that gets a Cha boost like gnomes or kitsune.

Like was said, you could choose to completely dump charisma with an arcanist. There are very few good exploits that really care about it, and many good ones that ignore it entirely. An arcanist with 7 charisma can still do a lot of good stuff.

Any offensive caster is going to need a fairly high main casting stat though, so you really want at least an 18 in intelligence as a wizard/arcanist or at least an 18 in charisma for a sorcerer. You don’t necessarily have to be an offensive caster though. You could just bring the strong buffs and utility and start with as little as 15 in your main casting stat.

[Firebug]

Heavyload Belt, and Muleback Cords are fairly cheap (or a wand of Ant Haul) but take up your belt/shoulder slot respectively. But a Handy Haversack is the same price.

If you are looking for Budget capacity though, Bag of Holding, Minor or Pathfinder Pouch are 1000gp, and if you are just starting out a Masterwork Backpack lets you treat your str at 1 higher for carry capacity... but weighs 4 lbs. It only gives you additional light load if your strength is 10 or higher. If you are looking at medium load, going from 1 str to 2 is greater than 4 lbs. Maybe see if you make it from Darkleaf Cloth for light load, but that gets expensive low level.

[Mark Hoover 330]

20 point buy Elf Wizard (Universalist/Arcane Crafter)

Str 10, Dex 13 (11 +2 Race), Con 12 (14 -2 Race), Int 18 (16 +2 Race), Wis 12, Cha 12

Alternate racial traits: Arcane Focus (+2 on Concentration checks when casting defensively; no Weapon Familiarity), Illustrious Urbanite (gain Spell Focus: Conjuration as a bonus feat; replaces Keen Senses)

Feats: Cypher Magic, Scribe Scroll (Wizard lvl 1 bonus), Spell Focus: Conjuration (Alternate Race Trait bonus)

At level 1 you are able to scribe scrolls, an act that takes 2 hours at the end of your day and 12.5 GP. You can cast from scrolls at Caster Level +1, so if you put a CL1 Mage Armor on a scroll that scroll casts as a CL2 spell.

As you level you'll get a couple extra bonus feats that must be Item Creation or Metamagic feats. Personally I like IC, but if your campaign doesn't have a lot of Downtime you might consider Metamagic instead.

You're going to take a Familiar and give it the Valet archetype. You can craft double the total GP worth of item per day and your Valet will help out a lot in non-combat situations. There are some combat benefits (it shares any Teamwork feats you take, at 3rd lvl it can move, deliver a harmless Touch spell, then move again, at 7th level it can do basically the same thing with Aid Another and then at 13th lvl it can deliver Aid Another as a Full Round action to up to 3 adjacent allies) but whether or not you use your Familiar anywhere near combat is up to you.

This PC buffs their allies, usually with scrolls. They do so at Close range after level 3, using their Familiar darting out, delivering the spell then darting back so it's not always exposed to danger. As you level, if you take the Item Creation feats you're all about delivering cheaper items to your party and having a never-ending supply of wands/scrolls around for just the right occasion.

You're going to end up spending a lot of GP on learning spells from NPCs if you can as well as filling up spell books. You want a huge array of spells so that your character's scrolls become the "Swiss Army Knife" that bails the party out of whatever.

Your focus on Conjuration is NOT about Summoning. You're all about Sleep at low levels, then using Conjurations after level 3 for damage and other stuff. Any time you've got to directly target a foe or foes, you're casting a Conjuration spell on them.

Finally, out of combat, you're the Knowledge expert delivering Monster Lore checks. Your Familiar is a backup scout (thanks to Vanish or Invisibility spells) so pick something with good senses. As you level, you might think about taking Evolved Familiar to either give the Familiar Scent (so you know when Invisible things are within 30') or Skilled/Use Magic Device.

If you go with a UMD/wand jockey Familiar, you will also probably want to pick up an Improved Familiar with a decent Cha score by level 5 or 7. You'll lose all the benefits of a Valet then, but you'll have something that doubles some of your actions so that's a plus.

Anyway, the point of this PC is delivering buffs to your allies in combat, dealing Conjuration effects with high DC saves to your enemies, and being extremely smart. Universalist/Arcane Crafter means you've got lots of cheap magic items around. The Familiar delivers those buffs for you over Short distances. And finally a focus on Conjuration (and perhaps Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration and Mage's Tattoo: Conjuration later on) will mean that its tough for foes to avoid your attack spells.

[strayshift]

You can never go wrong with a foresight diviner. Use the elven racial class bonus to get more rerolls.

[VoodistMonk]

Couldn't literally any character/class you want pull off Trapfinding with Deific Obedience Imot? Monitor Obedience, whatever...

[Mark Hoover 330]

Trap Finder is a campaign trait for a specific AP. If you're in a home game, ask your GM if you can adapt it for their game. If you're playing in another AP though, you're probably out of luck.

This trait gives you Disable Device as a Class skill with +1. It also allows you to disable Magical traps along with mundane ones. Blammo; you've got Trap Finding.

Or, y'know, Scroll of Unseen Servant dragging a corpse. Back in 1e and 2e my buddy played a fighter named Monty with a big ol' spear. Monty used to just impale a corpse and push it around to find most traps, calling it a "monster mop."

The Unseen Servant thing kinda seems like something a Wizard (Universalist/Arcane Crafter) might have a scroll for. I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin...

[Heather 540]

Why are there so many good choices? XP

[Heather 540]

You know what, I'm going to go with an Arcanist after all. It looks like a neat class, it's something I've never done before, and I don't think I want to go with Sorcerer and have both arcane casters be Cha based. I know bards and sorcerers are very different, but it's an overlap I don't really need to do.

If I leave Cha at a flat 10, I can get a spread of 10 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, and 10 Cha.

The Unlettered Arcanists gains a familiar instead of a spellbook and switches to the Witch spell list. That might be fun.

[Neriathale]

Heather 540 wrote:

The Unlettered Arcanists gains a familiar instead of a spellbook and switches to the Witch spell list. That might be fun.

Having a familiar is one of the basic Arcanist exploit options, and you get to keep the wizard spell list which is probably better than the witch one.

Also look at Dimensional Slide, Potent Magic and Quick Study. They aren’t mandatory, but they are probably the best three all-round useful exploits

[Heather 540]

I see. I'll stick with basic Arcanist then.

As for the 'battle' style I'm looking at, I think battlefield control might be best. The other spell casters in the family have spell lists that are mostly buffs and debuffs with a little healing. The cleric also uses summoning spells.

[avr]

There's a lot of BFC on the sorc/wiz list. A few tricks:

Rime spell turns any cold damage spell into BFC.

Fleeting spell is very handy, especially if your party is bad at using it, but even if they're good being able to pull the create pit spell away at a moment's notice is handy.

Persistent spell is especially useful for an arcanist - if you can prepare one 4th level spell you might want it for stoneskin or greater invisibility or telekinetic charge perhaps, but prepare create pit or glitterdust as 2nd level spells and persistent spell can turn them into solid 4th level BFC.

Selective spell is likely something you get as a metamagic rod.

[Heather 540]

I'll probably want a few metamagic feats, huh. Echoing Spell looks handy, though the 3 levels boost is painful.

And wow, 4 levels up for Quicken Spell? Definitely want to get a rod for that.

Persistent Spell does look nice.