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I recently saw a thread about the best spells for a magus and it got me thinking: what should a summoner use their spell slots for? I know there's certainly the minionmancer option, but with bounded casting, what other niches make sense to fill?
Also hello everyone! First post!
Healing so you can heal yourself when your pet takes damage.
Divine with healing and heroism isn't going to go wrong. Battlefield control like a wall spell to hinder or limit foes trying to swarm you/the eidolon may also be useful.
Healing and buffing is nice.
Haste and Enlarge in particular have really good heightened versions that are massive group buffs.
My Summoner also has Inspire Courage from bard dedication which works really well with Act together.
Shadow Siphon is a really cool spell that I have on mine that can reduce a ton of incoming damage.
With so few spell slots to cast with, the idea is to cast the minimum number of spells needed to get the job done. With so few spells in Repertoire at a time, picking the right ones is challenging.
I would lean towards multiple round buff/debuff spells (probably buffs since they are more reliable unless there is another caster already doing those). Spells with a sustained duration can also be good. You do have to watch out for starving the Eidolon of all of its actions though.
I wouldn't recommend healing. At least not healing from spell slots. Other classes are going to do that better.
The Master Summoner feats give you an extra highest-level spell slot to use for Summoning Spells. You can get other feats to make your summons cause an explosion when they appear and benefit from your Boost Eidolon cantrip, so a summoner who does nothing but cast summon spells does have some support.
A shapeshifting summoner who uses their slots to cast spells like Animal Form or Dragon Form could also be fun, and might be one of the best ways to make use of the Tandem Strike feat.
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You have some support for summoning, but summoning spells really aren't great in 2e, so it's hardly worth spending feats on.
With martial progression and limited slots, you're not going to be counted on as a major caster. So spend those spells on versatile illusions, especially ones that eventually heighten to permanent, and give yourself plenty you can do outside of combat.
With few spell slots, but of the highest two levels, I'd say only go for spells that will end an encounter if they're successful. Whether that's social, combat, or exploration, go for whatever is going to let you beat a problem that's thrown at your party.
Incremental things like healing or AoE can go on wands or scrolls, or a staff, but the slots should be ending things.
The Master Summoner feats give you an extra highest-level spell slot to use for Summoning Spells. You can get other feats to make your summons cause an explosion when they appear and benefit from your Boost Eidolon cantrip, so a summoner who does nothing but cast summon spells does have some support.
A shapeshifting summoner who uses their slots to cast spells like Animal Form or Dragon Form could also be fun, and might be one of the best ways to make use of the Tandem Strike feat.
Do you have to take the summoning spells in your repertoire or can you cast any summon or incarnate spell on your list or on any list?
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Playing a Divine summoner I've had some success with just stuff like Heal and Heroism and Bless.
Generally imo look for spells that will last you for a whole combat or you only will cast in a pinch.
Do you have to take the summoning spells in your repertoire or can you cast any summon or incarnate spell on your list or on any list?
You still need to know the spells normally. You just go from having 4 regular spell slots to 3 regular spell slots + 2 summoning only spell slots.
I will mention some that I like:
- Agitate: With an eidolon that likes to Trip or grapple this causes a lot of damage even if the creature makes the save.
- Heal / Soothe: Basic healing
- Form spells: If doing something with Tandem Strike
- Invisibility: Better the lvl 4, good on either the eidolon or summoner
- Aqueous Orb: I just like this spell, last all battle and you can be engulfing creatures inside it.
- Heroism: Basic buff
- Roaring Applause: Negates enemy reactions and if the creature fails you can use Attack of Opportunity every turn.
- Time Jump: When the summoner is on the s*&~.
- Bloodspray Curse: Decent extra damage against bosses as the effect is good even if they save against it.
- Vital Beacon: "Heally" good slot wise.
- Wall spells: It's the usual broken stuff.
- Synesthesia: Basic broken stuff
You have some support for summoning, but summoning spells really aren't great in 2e, so it's hardly worth spending feats on.
Maybe, it does have its place. I need to get a good look at the Incarnate Spells as they are enabled by this too.
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There are a couple of new utilities that a Summoner gets:
Summoners Precaution which can keep you up when your Eidolon goes down. Apart from making me feel like Paizo actually read my feedback, it allows you to push your Eidolon to the edge and keep going that one extra round. Its effectively extra hitpoints.
I think its compulsory. Because you can precast it, it will work fine from a wand....
Summoners Visage is nice a nice utility to make their eidolon look normal and fit into normal society. In practise it's about saving the actions required to summon it. But maybe you can do something with your identical twin.
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With so few spell slots to cast with, the idea is to cast the minimum number of spells needed to get the job done. With so few spells in Repertoire at a time, picking the right ones is challenging.
I would lean towards multiple round buff/debuff spells (probably buffs since they are more reliable unless there is another caster already doing those). Spells with a sustained duration can also be good. You do have to watch out for starving the Eidolon of all of its actions though.
I wouldn't recommend healing. At least not healing from spell slots. Other classes are going to do that better.
I'd argue that if a Summoner can heal themself, it's worth keeping in the repertoire. Act Together, give your Eidolon a stride or strike and take two actions yourself to heal as much as possible. Then give the last action to your eidolon to stride or strike.
You're moving, attacking and healing as much as possible, all in one turn.
You don't have the longevity to spam heal, but it's a really powerful spell to keep in your back pocket if you have access to it. I've absolutely had combats turn around because I was able to do something like Heal-Strike-Strike and top off an ally while taking down an enemy at the same time.
Summoners Precaution which can keep you up when your Eidolon goes down. Apart from making me feel like Paizo actually read my feedback, it allows you to push your Eidolon to the edge and keep going that one extra round. Its effectively extra hitpoints.
I think its compulsory. Because you can precast it, it will work fine from a wand....
But only once per casting. After you use the reaction, you have to re-cast the spell in order to have it available after manifesting the Eidolon again.
So maybe have a couple of scrolls of Summoner's Precaution to go along with that wand. Just in case.
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My summoner playtest character, Cirieo Thessadin and his beast eidolon Fluffy Goat, returned to aid the party in Assault on Longshadow. When I purchased Secrets of Magic I rebuild Cirieo under the final summoner rules and advanced him to 7th level. The party is 10th level.
Healing so you can heal yourself when your pet takes damage.
Yes, Cirieo learned heal.
Divine with healing and heroism isn't going to go wrong. Battlefield control like a wall spell to hinder or limit foes trying to swarm you/the eidolon may also be useful.
Cirieo learned petal storm for battlefield control.
Healing and buffing is nice.
Haste and Enlarge in particular have really good heightened versions that are massive group buffs.
I dropped haste from his spell repertoire, because the sorcerer regularly cast haste. Instead, his buff spell is elemental gift. It has the advantage that it can be cast for 4 different effects. Versatility is helpful in a limited spell repertoire.
Cirieo's 4th spell is fireball. That spell does not fit a summoner's strengths and needs, but he has been defending a town against armies, and fireball is good against armies and can be heightened to 4th level if he wants more damage.
His cantrips are dancing lights, guidance, produce flame, protect companion, and ray of frost.
The enemy forces in the campaign were trying to smash through the south gate of Langshadow. The giant throwing stones at the reinforced wooden doors was protected by 144 archers. so the party atop the wall had to Take Cover behind the battlements (gave 100% defense instead of just +4 to AC) every turn or become pincushions. Cirieo's first spell was heal in a 3rd-level slot to restore hit points on the player character who learned the necessity of Take Cover the hard way.
Then he and the sorcerer teamed up to cast elemental gift and haste on the monk. The monk would Catfall down the wall as he ran to the enemy, hit them with flurry of blows, run back, and climb back up the wall. This left the monk without an action to Take Cover, but he had Deflect Arrows.
The giant died while the gate had only 40 hp left. A minotaur charged up to the gate to finish its destruction. Cirieo cast petal storm to make the area in front of the gate deadly to the minotaur.
The battle still continues. On other turns Fluffy was active, attempting Primal Roar and goat-butting a enemy who climbed the wall back off the wall.
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My summoner playtest character, Cirieo Thessadin and his beast eidolon Fluffy Goat, returned to aid the party in Assault on Longshadow. When I purchased Secrets of Magic I rebuild Cirieo under the final summoner rules and advanced him to 7th level. The party is 10th level.
Nice.
One thing that stuck out to me...
At 4th level you gain your second and your spell repertoire reaches its maximum size of five spells.
Shouldn't you have 5 spells in Repertoire at 7th level?
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My summoner playtest character, Cirieo Thessadin and his beast eidolon Fluffy Goat, returned to aid the party in Assault on Longshadow. When I purchased Secrets of Magic I rebuild Cirieo under the final summoner rules and advanced him to 7th level. The party is 10th level.
Nice.
One thing that stuck out to me...
At 4th level you gain your second and your spell repertoire reaches its maximum size of five spells.Shouldn't you have 5 spells in Repertoire at 7th level?
Yes you will at 7th as well. It's just saying you reach the max size of your repertoire at level 4.
Lvl 1 = 2
Lvl 2 = 3
Lvl 3 = 4
Lvl 4 = 5
Lvl 5 and on still 5
I mention it because mathmuse only mentioned 4 spells in Repertoire for the character. I think he is shorting himself by one spell.
This is a change from other spontaneous characters that have (at least by default) the same number of spells in Repertoire as they do spell slots at each level.
My summoner playtest character, Cirieo Thessadin and his beast eidolon Fluffy Goat, returned to aid the party in Assault on Longshadow. When I purchased Secrets of Magic I rebuild Cirieo under the final summoner rules and advanced him to 7th level. The party is 10th level.
Nice.
One thing that stuck out to me...
At 4th level you gain your second and your spell repertoire reaches its maximum size of five spells.Shouldn't you have 5 spells in Repertoire at 7th level?
Thank you, breithauptclan. You are correct. I reread the Spell Repertoire section on pages 54-55 of Secrets of Magic and found my mistake. I had missed that summoners have 3 1st-level spells at 2nd level and lose only 2 spells from their repertoire when they lose a level of spell slots.
I had seen other people mention that summoners know 5 spells, but I had assumed that somewhere a class feat gave the repertoire a 5th spell, so I did not look for my mistake.
Since Cirieo kept the 1st-level spell heal that means I could give Cirieo another 3rd-level spell. For simplicity I will restore haste to his repertoire, though a battlefield control spell that can be heightened in a 4th-level slot, such as wall of thorns, is tempting.
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So, this is kind of a dumb/simple one, but I think it's still pertinent - when you're picking damage spells, go for the ones based on saves rather than the ones based on attack rolls. You share MAP with your eidolon, and your eidolon is going to be making attack most turns. No reason to punish yourself with MAP when you don't have to.
It also means that you and your eidolon are generally attacking different defenses, which can be handy, but that's not as important as avoiding MAP.