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My understanding is that both negative healing on the Dhampir Summoner and positive healing on the Eidolon will bring back HPs.
And now we need an Eidolon with Negative Healing for all the poor Undead Summoners out there.
Book of the Dead sounds like the right place for that.
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As title.
The relevant part of the text is on page 53 of Secrets of Magic, after Act Together (◆ to ◆◆◆) and Share Senses (◆), where it talks about sharing hit points and "healing either of you recovers your hit points".
Yin and Yang or Oil and Water?
The intent should be "Restoring hit points to either of you recovers hit points for your shared hit point pool." It shouldn't override the Dhampir negative healing effect of losing hit points when targeted with a positive energy healing effect.
So as The Raven Black says, Dhampir character can be healed with Harm spell, Oil of Unlife, or other such things; and Eidolon can be healed with Heal, potion of Healing, Hymn of Healing, etc.
So what happen when a dhampir summoner receives an AoE heal the hit both?
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So what happen when a dhampir summoner receives an AoE heal the hit both?
Heh, this was my first thought also.
Logically it seems pretty obvious: the same thing that normally happens, the dhampir rolls Fort vs. positive damage and the eidolon heals. The only difference is that both of these apply to the same hit point pool, and so may result in net healing or net harm pending the result of the Fort save.
of course, given that eidolons and summoners have specific interactions for dealing with AoE, what seems logically obvious may not actually be correct. Nevertheless, it seems to work even so.
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The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
Strictest possible RAW I guess you could just look at the number themselves, so 7 damage to the dhampir and 5 healing to the eidolon means you only take the damage... while 3 damage to the dhampir and 6 healing to the eidolon means you only receive the healing.
IMO resolving both simultaneously so 7 damage + 5 healing becomes 2 damage or 3 damage + 6 healing becomes 3 healing would be the cleanest way to resolve it.
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The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
Strictest possible RAW I guess you could just look at the number themselves, so 7 damage to the dhampir and 5 healing to the eidolon means you only take the damage... while 3 damage to the dhampir and 6 healing to the eidolon means you only receive the healing.
My reading of RAW, I would do the same. Since I don't think that AOE healing rolls separate amounts for each target (most AOE spells don't), then if the Dhampir character makes their save it is basically guaranteed to be less in value than the healing done to the Eidolon.
IMO resolving both simultaneously so 7 damage + 5 healing becomes 2 damage or 3 damage + 6 healing becomes 3 healing would be the cleanest way to resolve it.
That would probably be the most fair, and is likely how I would run it, but it also feels like a houserule. Because it is in direct violation to the rule that a single effect only affects the HP pool once.
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The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
I don't think it is so clearly one effect. I think the spell clearly has two separate effects depending on the targets involved.
I don't think it is so clearly one effect. I think the spell clearly has two separate effects depending on the targets involved.The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
It's 1 effect that can affects targets differently. A Prismatic Sphere is 1 effect with creatures being affected by different things.
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The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
Strictest possible RAW I guess you could just look at the number themselves, so 7 damage to the dhampir and 5 healing to the eidolon means you only take the damage... while 3 damage to the dhampir and 6 healing to the eidolon means you only receive the healing.
IMO resolving both simultaneously so 7 damage + 5 healing becomes 2 damage or 3 damage + 6 healing becomes 3 healing would be the cleanest way to resolve it.
Value of HP gained through the spell : +5 for Eidolon, -7 for Dhampir Summoner.
Mathematically +5 > -7.So +5 it is.
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The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
Strictest possible RAW I guess you could just look at the number themselves, so 7 damage to the dhampir and 5 healing to the eidolon means you only take the damage... while 3 damage to the dhampir and 6 healing to the eidolon means you only receive the healing.
IMO resolving both simultaneously so 7 damage + 5 healing becomes 2 damage or 3 damage + 6 healing becomes 3 healing would be the cleanest way to resolve it.
Value of HP gained through the spell : +5 for Eidolon, -7 for Dhampir Summoner.
Mathematically +5 > -7.So +5 it is.
While I would love to rule that way, the line is:
"Like with your actions, if you and your eidolon
are both subject to the same effect that affects your Hit
Points, you apply those effects only once (applying the
greater effect, if applicable)."
As it references effect (-7 damage is more than +5 healing) not mathematical value, the strict ruling, if you're saying the Heal is one effect, would be to only do -7. Personally I'm going to handle the two numbers as their own things and leave it at that, should this come to a table of mine and no more formal clarification has been offered.
Well so we have some more questions here:
1 - AoE heal/harm are same effect or separated effects?
1.1 - If are same effect what is considered greater if they are equal (if the char fails in fort check for example).
1.2 - So if only greater apply if the char pass in fort check will it be healed equal to dices numbers just like any other character in AoE?
1.3 - if only greater apply if the char fail in fort check will it be heal and harm would be equal so what's greater? Or both are considered "greater" and both applies zeroing the entire effect?
1.4 -if only greater apply if the char crit fail in fort check will it be harmed equal twice of dices numbers!?
2 - AoE heal/harm are same effect or separated effects?
2.1 - If are separated effect and both are equal (if the char fails in fort check for example) it will zeroing the effect?
Value of HP gained through the spell : +5 for Eidolon, -7 for Dhampir Summoner.
Mathematically +5 > -7.So +5 it is.
Thought about that, but treating damage as a negative number is inconsistent with how eidolon mechanics are supposed to treat damage taken by AoEs (since smaller amounts of damage would be a greater value).
So if you were to go that route, it'd probably be more consistent to treat healing as negative damage. That would be mean though.
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Value of HP gained through the spell : +5 for Eidolon, -7 for Dhampir Summoner.
Mathematically +5 > -7.So +5 it is.
Thought about that, but treating damage as a negative number is inconsistent with how eidolon mechanics are supposed to treat damage taken by AoEs (since smaller amounts of damage would be a greater value).
So if you were to go that route, it'd probably be more consistent to treat healing as negative damage. That would be mean though.
My idea actually is to consider if the result aligns with the intent of the caster. If they want to heal, healing is + and damage is -. If they want to damage, it is the other way around.
OH yeah, that could work.
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It's 1 effect that can affects targets differently. A Prismatic Sphere is 1 effect with creatures being affected by different things.I don't think it is so clearly one effect. I think the spell clearly has two separate effects depending on the targets involved.The rules say "if you and your eidolon are subject to the same effect that affects your hitpoints, you apply those effects only once" and pick whichever value is greater.
A single Heal spell is clearly one effect, but I'm not sure how you determine which is greater when something would heal one person and damage the other, though.
Hmm... That brings up another good point of discussion. How about spells that have a different effect on different creatures generally. Such as Prismatic Spray. If the Summoner and Eidolon are both caught in the area of Prismatic Spray, do they
a) Only roll for their color once and then have the normal disadvantage saving throw for the damage and other effects.
b) Each rolls a different color and apply the effects separately.
c) Each rolls a different color, apply any additional effects separately, and only take the higher amount of damage.
Problem with a) is that it doesn't really follow the rules for Prismatic Spray.
Problem with b) is that it does double damage to the Summoner/Eidolon pair - which is against the intent of the rules for the shared HP pool only being affected once by area effect spells.
c) is the closest to RAW that I can come up with. Mechanically it works, but thematically it is hard to justify. It also does have some double-effect problems.