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I would argue that they’re distinct. The bounded spellcasting feats also come online later than those given for the full casters.
Currently, I am in an abomination vault campaign playing as an eldritch trickster rouge, and I told my DM that if the Magus has basic, expert, and master spellcasting features that I would like to switch to that from the sorcerer dedication that I picked up from the eldritch trickster to the magus dedication as I think magus would synergize well with the class.
Though, when released my DM said I couldn't pick it up because it is "bounded" spellcasting.
So my question is can I actually pick it up?
I would think the answer is yes because when reading over the rules there isn't any wording that prevents me from doing it, as it seems bounded spellcasting is just another form of spellcasting just with the word "bonded" in it.Any help on the matter would be appreciated
The magus is confirmed to lack basic expert and master spellcasting benefits in exchange for a wavelike approach...
The magus is confirmed to lack basic expert and master spellcasting benefits in exchange for a wavelike approach...
In this you are incorrect. The Magus archetype has Basic, Expert and Master spellcasting feats (page 74 and 75).
This is a good question. There is no clear answer here. The Spellcasting feats are referred to as "bounded" spellcasting feats, but nothing indicates that this disqualifies (or qualifies for that matter) for the Eldritch trickster racket. In my own opinion, I don't see anything particularly game breaking about allowing it.
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I would argue that they’re distinct. The bounded spellcasting feats also come online later than those given for the full casters.
I agree. It's not just that they have different names. The benefits of the Basic, Expert, and Master feats are clearly spelled out in the CRB, and the Bounded feats don't have the same benefits. They clearly don't meet the current requirements for Eldritch Trickster.
That said, I wouldn't be shocked if they were added as an option for Eldritch Trickster when the APG is updated.
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GM here. I originally ruled against it, as I had thought that Eldritch Trickster stated that you could take a multiclass archetype that had access to the Basic, Expert, and Master spellcasting benefits- which Magus does not have (it has the Basic, Expert, and Master bounded spectating benefits).
However, after going back to Eldritch Trickster, I noticed the exact text read, "Choose a multiclass archetype that has a basic, expert, and master spellcasting feat." While Magus has the bounded spellcasting, the feats themselves are listed as "Basic Magus Spellcasting," and so on. The feat's description does state that it grants bounded spellcasting benefits, but I rules in favor of the name since "feat" was specifically called out rather than the benefits themselves.
To Paizo, sorry if this is too early to be discussing Magus multiclass stuff! Delete if you need to.
I vaguely remember this coming up during paizoCon. And I'm pretty sure Mark or Logan confirmed that the bounded casters do NOT qualify for being a spellcaster multiclass archetype as required by the Eldritch Trickster.
GM here. I originally ruled against it, as I had thought that Eldritch Trickster stated that you could take a multiclass archetype that had access to the Basic, Expert, and Master spellcasting benefits- which Magus does not have (it has the Basic, Expert, and Master bounded spectating benefits).
However, after going back to Eldritch Trickster, I noticed the exact text read, "Choose a multiclass archetype that has a basic, expert, and master spellcasting feat." While Magus has the bounded spellcasting, the feats themselves are listed as "Basic Magus Spellcasting," and so on. The feat's description does state that it grants bounded spellcasting benefits, but I rules in favor of the name since "feat" was specifically called out rather than the benefits themselves.
To Paizo, sorry if this is too early to be discussing Magus multiclass stuff! Delete if you need to.
Very glad you all started the discussion early as it was something I was wondering the day after picking up the book. I agree that the trickster shouldn’t be restricted here, because “trickster,” and the wording in my humble opinion allows such an opening as Camellen suggested; however, given the lack of a concrete answer I myself might take the slower path of Mastermind and 2nd level dedication Magus etc. … for now.
Thanks again for starting this thread.
It's a shame magus dedication doesn't count; it's really the only class that can fulfill the "spell sneak attack" fantasy atm, although maybe the shadow signet will make it slightly more feasible if you're willing to wait