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Pathbuilder is really just a tool to simplify the character creation process.
Are you asking for us to make an elevator pitch for the paid version for your dad? I don't own the paid version, so I can't speak to its merit, and maybe I feel a little uncomfortable advocating for a parent to buy something for their child that they don't necessarily need.
Also, the easiest way to understand the tool is to play around with it. Make some characters with the free version. You'll only want the paid version if your table is actually playing with variant rules like free archetype or dual class.
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I'm all for supporting the work that Redrazors does on Pathbuilder, but it does seem like something that you don't really need - especially if it's someone else's money you're using for it. I see getting the paid version as more of a "thanks for doing what you do" sort of thing.
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It's mostly a tool for building pathfinder characters. Name kinda says it.
It does have some functionality for also using it actively during the game as a kind of character sheet; you can track current HP, spells per day and so forth. I'm not sure how convenient that is, I haven't used that.
Also, you can export the character to Foundry (and maybe other VTT platforms). This can be useful in PFS because editing a character in Pathbuilder is very user-friendly, IMO even faster than doing it in Foundry directly. And it's also handy in PFS because it puts you in control of your original character sheet, and you can export it to the game of whoever you're playing with that day.
The base free version already does a lot of stuff, I encourage you to just play with that for a bit to see if you like the app. If you do, then you might want to buy the upgrade.
I have the upgrade myself, I rather like it. It was quite cheap and only a one-time fee. It adds some useful features, like companion creatures, as well as custom backgrounds and being able to slot in bonus feats (which is handy for PFS school training).
Yeah, try out the free version. It still does a lot and will let you try out the app.
Not having access to the pets (familiar and animal companion) is mildly inconvenient. But not terrible.
It does have some functionality for also using it actively during the game as a kind of character sheet; you can track current HP, spells per day and so forth. I'm not sure how convenient that is, I haven't used that.
I use it for referencing spells that my spellcaster characters have. Other than that, I always use a paper character sheet. Pathbuilder is organized for building the character, not playing it.
In addition to the other things mentioned in this thread, I would point out the ease of retraining - especially retraining skill boosts.
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It's just a character manager for making P2e characters. It's not well designed, and without buying it, it's functionally useless for Witches, Rangers, and some Druids. It also doesn't support Homebrew of any kind. You and your father are better off using a free program, like Wanderer's Guide.
Man, is that opinion NOT the general consensus.
Most people find it extremely useful. I was using the free version with my animal companion and familiar owning characters before I paid some money
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Considering you can change familiar abilities every day, I don't see how a character builder would be super useful anyway?
Performance is a lot better than WG as well, and WG has a pretty low limit on how many characters you can make with it.
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PB is also a lot less visually appealing and streamlined for in game use.
I just went and checked Wanderer's Guide. While it is obviously partly a matter of opinion I find it to be FAR less useful than Pathbuilder, at least in the role of building a character (which is all I want my character builder to do, I don't personally much care how useful it is during a game).
Maybe its some hidden option somewhere but I also have completely failed to see where I can build an animal companion (the feature that you say is better than pathbuilder). There is a free form text box but that is all I can find.
Edit: And I also don't see where I select spells. Lacking the ability to select spells is FAR FAR FAR more of a limitation (both in character creation and in game use) is pretty much a show stopper for me. As in making the tool functionally completely useless.
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Wanderer's Guide is incredibly slow and clunky, in order to level up you have to press edit and then go through the entire character builder again. Loading a new page if you want to add an ancestry feat or do something else. Loading a page is very slow the first time you do it (about 5-10 seconds) and still pretty slow the rest of the time(about a single second).
I find the UI somewhat unintuitive as well, clicking something brings up an info box that blocks half the page.
It is very pretty but for me Pathbuilder is a very smooth experience that makes it fun to build character while I find myself constantly frustrated whenever I use Wanderer's Guide.
Wanderer's Guide is incredibly slow and clunky, in order to level up you have to press edit and then go through the entire character builder again. Loading a new page if you want to add an ancestry feat or do something else. Loading a page is very slow the first time you do it (about 5-10 seconds) and still pretty slow the rest of the time(about a single second).
When it works at all. I have regularly had a page fail to load.
I find the UI somewhat unintuitive as well, clicking something brings up an info box that blocks half the page.
To be fair, when you click on something in Pathbuilder it brings up a box that blocks the entire page.
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Back in the day, we built our characters on a sheet of paper.
And we liked it!
<g>
To be fair, when you click on something in Pathbuilder it brings up a box that blocks the entire page.
I should have expanded on that a bit more, while that happens for some stuff (a lot of other stuff simply expands instead) in Pathbuilder web, the box is scaled with size and is in the center which means that if I click again at the same spot the window immediately disappear and I don't have to move my mouse but in Wanderer's Guide I have to click somewhere else as clicking on the same spot does nothing or it could even be blocked.
Feels less disruptive to me and much smoother.
Back in the day, we built our characters on a sheet of paper.
And we liked it!<g>
The only thing I dislike about pen and paper is leveling in this system, very annoying to change proficiencies for everything when you level up. Rolling dice will always be more fun than clicking the button in VTTs though (even if I appreciate the computer doing the math for me).
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Could we please not argue about which character builder is better? I think it's prefered to have designers get praised for the work they do, rather than torn down for the work they don't. It's not like they aren't active members of the community.
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It's not hidden anywhere. If you have the animal companion feat, it shows up as a tab just like spells and gear. That's somewhat excusable since it seems, for no reason, you thought I meant anyone could get an animal companion regardless of class, even though I was pretty clear. If you can't figure out how to add spells, though, that's just you being willfully ignorant.
Either you're using a different tool or a different version or I'm pretty blind. I have a level 3 druid and am seeing no animal companion tabs nor any spell tabs anywhere.
Edit: Oh, its NOT in the character builder portion of the tool. Its in the sheet you get at the end. Man, that is TOTALLY non intuitive. Some stuff you enter in one part of the program, others is entered somewhere else completely. And apparently you have to apply the mature ability manually. And there is no error correction so you have no clue if you're accidentally breaking the rules. Yeah, I'm sticking to pathbuilder than you very much
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Could we please not argue about which character builder is better? I think it's prefered to have designers get praised for the work they do, rather than torn down for the work they don't. It's not like they aren't active members of the community.
Not trying to rain on somebodies parade but
1) It pretty much seems germane to this particular thread2) Honest feedback is essential to improving a tool.
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Could we please not argue about which character builder is better? I think it's prefered to have designers get praised for the work they do, rather than torn down for the work they don't. It's not like they aren't active members of the community.Not trying to rain on somebodies parade but
1) It pretty much seems germane to this particular thread
2) Honest feedback is essential to improving a tool.
I thought the point of the thread was the garner support for the OP's father to get them the paid version. And feedback is good! Opinions are good! I wouldn't say "X is bad," or "X is clearly superior" is helpful. But to each their own.
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I think there's a point where a thread hasn't really gotten the support from its OP necessary to sustain it where a certain amount of thread drift is acceptable. I think the actual issue is that the tone of this thread is pretty gross.
As to the comparison, comparing the UI of a phone app vs a desktop seems VERY apples vs oranges to me. The two are doing fundamentally different things. Or they are doing the same thing through different mediums, at least. Which of them will be better for you seems largely a matter of the tech you have access to and like using.
Back in the day, we built our characters on a sheet of paper.
And we liked it!<g>
The internet equivalent of this would be getting a mythweavers account I suppose. I find their character sheet to be pretty serviceable so long as you're past the point of needing to be guided through character creation.
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It is slow. It's a program in beta, run by one guy, on one server, for free. It's naturally going to be slower than an app that rakes in money from people buying it, that also isn't designed to be visually appealing.
Meta reasons like this doesn't make the program doesn't make it better when I use the program. "It was harder for this person" is probably in the bottom of reasons to use a service. It being slow in favour of making it visually appealing is something that makes it worse in my opinion.
It's pretty amusing calling the UI unintuitive for blocking half the page, when Pathbuilder blocks... the entire page.Wanderer's Guide isn't "frustrating", it's just not designed for you to go and change everything about your character all the time. It's a character sheet, the idea is that you only do that on leveling up.
I mentioned it above but not only does most things only expand instead but they also block in a much less intrusive way.
So it is frustrating when you level up then. However the functionality that you say it isn't designed for is something I value deeply.
If you don't mind it being very slow, and only use it as a character sheet then I do think WG has value as it is indeed visually appealing.
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Back in the day, we built our characters on a sheet of paper.
And we liked it!<g>
There's a more practical reason for advocating this, which is that the mind-numbing job of adding up the bonuses manually is good for understanding which ones stack.
I make my kids do all of their character creation on paper before allowing them to put it on Pathbuilder. It's a fair amount of manual number crunching but they're pretty good at understanding where the numbers come from.
Pathbuilder is a fancy calculator. It's supposed to save time, not save you from having to learn math.
If it's that bad, report it so that it will get fixed. Nearly everything I've reported was fixed in about a week.
*note that AoN is wrong when it says that it requires 6 master familiar abilities, since either Arcana and Society requires a Master point each.
Uh, AoN is not wrong. It requires 6 abilities in its sourcebook too. There's nothing to really suggest it's not intended to be that way either.
Now, when the witch hit lvl 6 ( getting 6 familiar master abilities ), it doesn't change a thing.
the Fearie dragon will still have only his 6 skills.
This is also wrong. Calligraphy Wyrm requires 6 abilities. Improved Familiar reduces the number by 2. 6-2 is 4.
So if you have 6 total familiar abilities and you spend 4 on calligraphy wyrm, you have 2 left over to spend on other things.
1) skilled gives you one skill. The wyrm has 2,so it's 7 master abilities. Pretty straightforward for what concerns mechanics ( aka rules how to build your familiar)
I mean, it gives you nine abilities, not seven (ink spray and stylus claws). It just costs 6 abilities to take.
NONE of the specific familiars have ability costs that line up with the number of abilities you actually get. It doesn't make sense to try to draw a connection there because there isn't one.
2) the improved familiar allows you to get the familiar if you don't have enough points, but it doesn't give extra points.
No, but it does reduce the cost of a specific familiar which might mean you have more points left over at the end. A familiar that costs 6 points now costs 4. Which means if you have 7 abilities you have three left over afterwards... because you're paying less for the specific familiar.