Anyway, one thing the OP has not made clear yet is whether we can turn this down. I really would not want to be so distanced from my family and friends (not to mention the rest of humanity), not to mention I would not want the responsibility of that much power.
I guess if you don't want it and you CAN'T turn it down - what would you do?
This is a slightly different question, but it could be just as interesting as finding out exactly how we'd all turn into murder hobos.
Come to think of it, I suppose there might be some necessary secondary powers involved with gaining the ability to cast Fireball, like the ability to understand the world through perfect 6-second blocks of time and 5-ft cubes as the default unit of measurement for AoEs.
Zepheri wrote:
Now that I think about it, the question we should ask ourselves is if we are magicians, how can we prove it?We would become magicians of Las Vegas, we declared war on some country to demonstrate our powers, we would do good healing people or saving people (this would make us look like Superman or the messiah)
My question is how to prove that they are magicians?
Well, that depends on the scenario and who you want to prove your magic to and why you want to prove it to them.
Generally, though, I'd say that proving your magic is redundant because you've already done something obviously supernatural that they've witnessed, in an environment that you could not have prepared ahead of time.
Plus, even if you did have to prove it, odds are good that you have at least some form of spell that can do the trick. Fabricate or Stone Shape would some of the more obvious ones that have ways you could use them that simply couldn't be faked in person.
Interplanetary Teleport to take someone with you to Mars, borrow one of the Mars rovers, and then drop it off back at NASA would also probably work.
Now that I think about it, the question we should ask ourselves is if we are magicians, how can we prove it?We would become magicians of Las Vegas, we declared war on some country to demonstrate our powers, we would do good healing people or saving people (this would make us look like Superman or the messiah)
My question is how to prove that they are magicians?
Interesting question, but this topic was covered on an older thread. I encourage you to check it out. Can't remember the exact title, but it's literally about, if you were a caster, how could you prove your magic is real.
I'm interested in reading this thread you mentioned but my search-fu must be weak, cant seem to find it, only detect magic threads
Anyway, one thing the OP has not made clear yet is whether we can turn this down. I really would not want to be so distanced from my family and friends (not to mention the rest of humanity), not to mention I would not want the responsibility of that much power.
I guess if you don't want it and you CAN'T turn it down - what would you do?
This is a slightly different question, but it could be just as interesting as finding out exactly how we'd all turn into murder hobos.
Hmm, would you want to turn it down though?
I must admit, when starting this thread, I actually never considered if you didn't want the chance to be a magic caster.
Now that I think about it, the question we should ask ourselves is if we are magicians, how can we prove it?
Interesting question, but this topic was covered on an older thread. I encourage you to check it out. Can't remember the exact title, but it's literally about, if you were a caster, how could you prove your magic is real.
I'm interested in reading this thread you mentioned but my search-fu must be weak, cant seem to find it, only detect magic threads
I must admit, when starting this thread, I actually never considered if you didn't want the chance to be a magic caster.
I think the potential alone would be worth it, but even I agree that the power alone would tend to erode the person's humanity, or at least their connection to the rest of humanity. It just gets worse when you add in the raw alienation and loss after losing their original identity due to the public reveal.
On the other hand, you can actually say "I Reject My Humanity, Jojo!" So there's that. That and the phenomenal cosmic power.
Of course, all of that attention along with no powers might not end so well, either.
Hmm, the refusal idea got me thinking a bit. I wish/pray for superpowers too often as it is. Even if the being that appears is/claims to by Nethys, I feel like I'd be spitting in God's eye if I turned this opportunity down. Of course my normal wishes for powers are a smidge more limited or thematic in scope.
Anyway, I know that the power of a Level 20 caster isn't truly on par with a god, but, compared to the rest of humanity, it might as well be. That poses a new hypothetical. There's the old question "Can God make a rock so heavy that He couldn't move it?" This of couse assumes a monotheisitc omnipotent deity. Lesser power scope, but same question in principle; can the wizard create safegaurds or checks upon their power that they can't later overcome?
For those of us who hope to have some level of a goodly or altruistic bent, that would seem an important consideration. While you are still relatively young and uncorrupted in your power, could you create contingencies to keep yourself from giving in to the power's corrupting influence? Basically, what if Khaleesi had had something in place besides just Verys (I'm bad with spelling)? She could have stayed great if she hadn't torched her safegaurd.
There's the old question "Can God make a rock so heavy that He couldn't move it?"
Of course not. I am often amazed at how often this question gets asked. A rock is a finite object. It doesn't matter how large or heavy you make the rock, it is always going to be a finite size and weight, even if you keep making the rock larger and heavier every time forever. The rock cannot, by definition, be infinite. That term alone is reserved for what is commonly referred to as God. Can God move itself? Well, yes.
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For those of us who hope to have some level of a goodly or altruistic bent, that would seem an important consideration. While you are still relatively young and uncorrupted in your power, could you create contingencies to keep yourself from giving in to the power's corrupting influence? Basically, what if Khaleesi had had something in place besides just Verys (I'm bad with spelling)? She could have stayed great if she hadn't torched her safegaurd.
You speak of binding and/or limiting your future self? What could you possibly imagine that you couldn't imagine yourself out of at a later point when your wisdom and intelligence have vastly exceeded your current?
There's the old question "Can God make a rock so heavy that He couldn't move it?"
Of course not. I am often amazed at how often this question gets asked. A rock is a finite object. It doesn't matter how large or heavy you make the rock, it is always going to be a finite size and weight, even if you keep making the rock larger and heavier every time forever. The rock cannot, by definition, be infinite. That term alone is reserved for what is commonly referred to as God. Can God move itself? Well, yes.
Logically I agree with you. Sadly logic and philosophy don't always play well together. The counter argument here (that makes for a seemingly endless loop) is that if you accept that God is omnipotent, there is nothing that God can't do. So, how can He not make the rock that He can't move. The impossible is supposed to be possible for God, but that contains the conceptual possibility of the creation of the insurmountable. Honestly, I fully admit I don't know. These questions are fun for a bit, but then I remember why philosophical discussions are fun, but I'd never major in it :p
For those of us who hope to have some level of a goodly or altruistic bent, that would seem an important consideration. While you are still relatively young and uncorrupted in your power, could you create contingencies to keep yourself from giving in to the power's corrupting influence? Basically, what if Khaleesi had had something in place besides just Verys (I'm bad with spelling)? She could have stayed great if she hadn't torched her safegaurd.
You speak of binding and/or limiting your future self? What could you possibly imagine that you couldn't imagine yourself out of at a later point when your wisdom and intelligence have vastly exceeded your current?
Again, mostly I agree. Despite that, I'm at least somewhat a creature of hope (balanced heavily by pragmatism). I'd at least have to make an attempt at putting enough safe guards and stumbling blocks in place for "future maybe bad me", that I'd at least have to stop and consider my actions. Hopefully, I could do enough to help keep me on the right path. But, pessimistically/realisticly nothing is every 100% foolproof.
If the god of magic does not give you magic items, and you clearly want to create your items to improve your magic or character, the question would be how much would be the gold conversion a $ why should it be a lot if you want to make the archmage robe or the staff of power
For those of us who hope to have some level of a goodly or altruistic bent, that would seem an important consideration. While you are still relatively young and uncorrupted in your power, could you create contingencies to keep yourself from giving in to the power's corrupting influence? Basically, what if Khaleesi had had something in place besides just Verys (I'm bad with spelling)? She could have stayed great if she hadn't torched her safegaurd.
You speak of binding and/or limiting your future self? What could you possibly imagine that you couldn't imagine yourself out of at a later point when your wisdom and intelligence have vastly exceeded your current?
What possible motivations could someone have to put RESTRICTIONS on themselves?
For those of us who hope to have some level of a goodly or altruistic bent, that would seem an important consideration. While you are still relatively young and uncorrupted in your power, could you create contingencies to keep yourself from giving in to the power's corrupting influence?
Best I can do for ya is use Planar Binding to get various forms and flavor of celestial until you get enough to suss out a coherent moral compass to check in with as advisors every so often. (Anything else, I'm either sure that a much smarter and immortal version of myself could think his way around OR said failsafe is itself not immune to corruption or developing its own agenda which might not be 100% altruistic or could even be inimical to humanity.)
How much extra time that would buy you is definitely a YMMV situation. A few years? Centuries? Millennia?
Either you're willing to engage in constant vigilance against temptation, or at least check in once a month, or you're not.
Ultimately I figure that I would get bored and leave by the time humanity both no longer needed me nudging it away from self-inflicted extinction and my moral compass had completely eroded.
Zepheri wrote:
If the god of magic does not give you magic items, and you clearly want to create your items to improve your magic or character, the question would be how much would be the gold conversion a $ why should it be a lot if you want to make the archmage robe or the staff of power
With no WBL checks in place, at the very worst, you could use False Focus to create 300 gp of crafting materials, or even 300 gp of crafting materials to use to make Magic Capital.
You could then use those crafting materials to make a custom item of Fabricate that made more and more gp worth of crafting materials.
The real annoying thing would be sussing out how much things are worth in gp, though there are some spells which will help with that and Appraise is a skill, so you could either spare a skill point or two in it (or use it untrained with your BIG BRAIN MAGEY TIMES) or you could make a +2 Int item that gives ranks in Appraise and then use that whenever necessary.
Logically I agree with you. Sadly logic and philosophy don't always play well together. The counter argument here (that makes for a seemingly endless loop) is that if you accept that God is omnipotent, there is nothing that God can't do. So, how can He not make the rock that He can't move. The impossible is supposed to be possible for God, but that contains the conceptual possibility of the creation of the insurmountable. Honestly, I fully admit I don't know. These questions are fun for a bit, but then I remember why philosophical discussions are fun, but I'd never major in it :p
Eh, I find that response (and the infinite loop created) a tad lackluster. I can't delve into many of the reasons why because it certainly crosses into the realm of the religious but I can say that the problem only occurs because assumptions are being made about the characteristics and nature of the god in question, and on what omnipotent actually means within those characteristics and nature. And perhaps a little bit of ignorance on the nature of what infinite really means, and how infinity actual contains an infinity of infinities within it.
Infinity is a funny concept. We can grasp at it but we can't really wrap our minds around what it really means. Like all numbers, it is a concept and has no physical nature. It can be represented but never quantified. A rock is quantifiable and thus, is not infinite. It can never be infinite because it can be quantified. For such a thing to be possible, it would have to occur in a space that does not resemble our own universe.
Infinity is a funny concept. We can grasp at it but we can't really wrap our minds around what it really means. Like all numbers, it is a concept and has no physical nature. It can be represented but never quantified. A rock is quantifiable and thus, is not infinite. It can never be infinite because it can be quantified. For such a thing to be possible, it would have to occur in a space that does not resemble our own universe.
But back to the question at hand: Can a Wizard place checks on themselves to ensure they don't abuse their power/lose their humanity/whatever?
The answer iis simply: "YES", but it requires commitment.
Simply imposing personal restrictions like "I won't use 5th level spells or above on human beings" or "I will never interfere with a political election", and sticking to those rules is enough to keep yourself from THE GOLDEN THRONE.
The real question is how to make those restrictions, and what incentivises you to stick to them.
If you care that much about doing Good, then just cast detect alignment spells and think about the action you are about to take. If it's an evil action, you'll ping as Evil.
Infinity is a funny concept. We can grasp at it but we can't really wrap our minds around what it really means. Like all numbers, it is a concept and has no physical nature. It can be represented but never quantified. A rock is quantifiable and thus, is not infinite. It can never be infinite because it can be quantified. For such a thing to be possible, it would have to occur in a space that does not resemble our own universe.
But back to the question at hand: Can a Wizard place checks on themselves to ensure they don't abuse their power/lose their humanity/whatever?
The answer iis simply: "YES", but it requires commitment.
Simply imposing personal restrictions like "I won't use 5th level spells or above on human beings" or "I will never interfere with a political election", and sticking to those rules is enough to keep yourself from THE GOLDEN THRONE.
If anything, Da Emprah is an argument against having servitors powerful enough to potentially give you trouble. Or at least against having servitors with free will and the ability to turn on you.
That reminds me, I think there may be a way to make Mythic creatures without being Mythic oneself, so if one really wanted to flirt with self-destruction that could be something to consider.
If you care that much about doing Good, then just cast detect alignment spells and think about the action you are about to take. If it's an evil action, you'll ping as Evil.
I don't recall anything about Detect Evil revealing if a creature is currently thinking an Evil thought, only if they have an evil alignment (provided they have enough HD or are the right kind of creature)
If you care that much about doing Good, then just cast detect alignment spells and think about the action you are about to take. If it's an evil action, you'll ping as Evil.
I don't recall anything about Detect Evil revealing if a creature is currently thinking an Evil thought, only if they have an evil alignment (provided they have enough HD or are the right kind of creature)
Animals, traps, poisons, and other potential perils are not evil, and as such this spell does not detect them. Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell.
Having said that, if you're attempting to do the right thing and just unsure if it's really the right thing to do then Detect Evil probably wouldn't help. There are other options, like the Phylactery you mentioned
That would be perfect if you had the required materials, but since all magical objects are expressed as gold so as not to indicate what materials they are, you will not know what materials in our world resembles for its creation
You will spend some time researching to find out which ones it resembles and how to obtain it
Another point that I want to point out is that I do not believe that you can do good in any sense since by historical facts and current facts, power corrupts
Let's say you have power, that's good, because you can do many things, but by doing so many of your friends and family will begin to see you with fear and you will begin to feel or be alone.
Another thing that you should think about calmly is the distribution of your skill points since if you do not invest at least in sense motive you will be victims of people who want to take advantage of You to get what they want
Another point that I want to point out is that I do not believe that you can do good in any sense since by historical facts and current facts, power corrupts
While it's certainly true that there's a historical trend to support your position - it's a trend, not a law of nature. There have been/are/will-be good people in positions of power.
That would be perfect if you had the required materials, but since all magical objects are expressed as gold so as not to indicate what materials they are, you will not know what materials in our world resembles for its creation
You will spend some time researching to find out which ones it resembles and how to obtain it
Another point that I want to point out is that I do not believe that you can do good in any sense since by historical facts and current facts, power corrupts
Let's say you have power, that's good, because you can do many things, but by doing so many of your friends and family will begin to see you with fear and you will begin to feel or be alone.
Another thing that you should think about calmly is the distribution of your skill points since if you do not invest at least in sense motive you will be victims of people who want to take advantage of You to get what they want
Presumably if one knows how to craft the item due to having the crafting feat, one knows what the required items are in the first place. So, again, worst case scenario, one could just use Fabricate + False Focus to conjure up the necessary materials if there's no readily available equivalent at hand.
(ETA: Even if cheese like the False Focus + Fabricate combo doesn't work, you probably have time to do said research into crafting materials before you'd be able to really get a whole lot of power-mad rampaginging in. Especially if you're initially cautious about applying yourself until after you're geared up and have oodles of minions.)
Being alienated from others is a basically guaranteed part of the scenario given the hugely public reveal to the world in the initial premise. There are still a lot of ways that one could have a positive impact on the world, even so. Creating sources of infinite, clean energy would be one such way that has already come up in the thread.
Plus, even corrupt people can be complicated and complex and do both good things and bad things. If you save the life of Person A and then murder Person B, that murder doesn't cause reality to retroactively kill Person A, too.
Skill point distribution becomes much less important after that initial, vulnerable period before spellcasting is active. It is VERY important at that point in time, but after you become more secure in your power you can always make Int-boosting items that confer max ranks in different skills, or even make a bunch of +2 Int Ioun Stones and implant them so that you've always got max ranks in every skill.
That would be perfect if you had the required materials, but since all magical objects are expressed as gold so as not to indicate what materials they are, you will not know what materials in our world resembles for its creation
You will spend some time researching to find out which ones it resembles and how to obtain it
Another point that I want to point out is that I do not believe that you can do good in any sense since by historical facts and current facts, power corrupts
Let's say you have power, that's good, because you can do many things, but by doing so many of your friends and family will begin to see you with fear and you will begin to feel or be alone.
Another thing that you should think about calmly is the distribution of your skill points since if you do not invest at least in sense motive you will be victims of people who want to take advantage of You to get what they want
Presumably if one knows how to craft the item due to having the crafting feat, one knows what the required items are in the first place. So, again, worst case scenario, one could just use Fabricate + False Focus to conjure up the necessary materials if there's no readily available equivalent at hand.
(ETA: Even if cheese like the False Focus + Fabricate combo doesn't work, you probably have time to do said research into crafting materials before you'd be able to really get a whole lot of power-mad rampaginging in. Especially if you're initially cautious about applying yourself until after you're geared up and have oodles of minions.)
Being alienated from others is a basically guaranteed part of the scenario given the hugely public reveal to the world in the initial premise. There are still a lot of ways that one could have a positive impact on the...
What you say may make some sense, however it would be better if instead of telling me the possibilities of obtaining the resources, you introduce me your final caster with feat and skill (that is your definitive and not an option) since the god of magic is only giving you little time to decide what
1/10 mrcharisma or maybe1/20 are good, there are very few cases and these are people who have had some experience while reaching that position However, you will go from a lower class worker (student or similar) to a middle class and obtain a power that allows you to have what you want without having worked for it If that is not the way to corruption, I do not know what it will be
Honestly, as long as you don't fall completely off the deep end, ending up a Neutral alignment is still probably a super net good for the world.
Hmm, then again someone who is a 20th level caster and Neutral would probably up and leave. I mean, since this is a big universe (not mentioning other alternative realities that maybe you could reach with plane shift and gate) there would be no reason to stay.
As for being Good or Evil, i guess it ultimately comes up to the person and the people whose lives are being affected. Some acts of Good might be seen as Evil by some. Some acts of Evil might be considered Good.
Hmm, then again someone who is a 20th level caster and Neutral would probably up and leave. I mean, since this is a big universe (not mentioning other alternative realities that maybe you could reach with plane shift and gate) there would be no reason to stay.
Unless you happen to have friends and family your love and generally like much of this world.
It’s not like you’d have to be completely alone in your power. Wizardry is the kind of thing that can be taught. If you want more of a guarantee of companionship, then be an Instructor Wizard.
It’s not like you’d have to be completely alone in your power. Wizardry is the kind of thing that can be taught. If you want more of a guarantee of companionship, then be an Instructor Wizard.
Yes, but you will take responsibility with the people you teach, we have magicians who do optical tricks but this is something new and powerful
Second Which country would they start teaching to, share these teachings with the whole world, if the country you started teaching tells you that only a select group should use them to handle it appropriately And only within the country (yes I watch a lot of conspiracy tv) (example of this the Manhattan atomic bomb project) Would you allow it
At first you will not think about this but you have to bear in mind that magic is an unknown field in our world and that people can do it is like having a weapon in hand if nobody can see it.
It’s not like you’d have to be completely alone in your power. Wizardry is the kind of thing that can be taught. If you want more of a guarantee of companionship, then be an Instructor Wizard.
That raises some questions.
Could you "graduate" a new person you know every level so that by the end of it you have made 17 more Wizards of progressively higher level? Or would that just cause 17 new Wizards to be created out of nothing or imported from an existing population with exposure to Wizardly instruction? IIRC the OP was that we treat each level as if we gained it in sequence as part of the whole virtual reality Adventure Path leveling experience?
Then again, the virtual reality AP leveling experience might mean that those cohort-Wizards would all just be part of the simulation, anyway, up to and possibly including the one obtained at hitting Wizard 20?
Also, how would Leadership, etc. work? Getting a familiar through a feat rather than class feature? I'm assuming that a familiar from a class feature is just going to spontaneously come into existence or an existing familiar-compatible creature in one's life becomes said familiar, rather than requiring one to physically hunt down a creature and then make it into a familiar via ritual.
Zepheri wrote:
Yes, but you will take responsibility with the people you teach, we have magicians who do optical tricks but this is something new and powerful
Second Which country would they start teaching to, share these teachings with the whole world, if the country you started teaching tells you that only a select group should use them to handle it appropriately And only within the country (yes I watch a lot of conspiracy tv) (example of this the Manhattan atomic bomb project) Would you allow it
At first you will not think about this but you have to bear in mind that magic is an unknown field in our world and that people can do it is like having a weapon in hand if nobody can see it.
Unless you're deciding to dedicate yourself to a specific nation-state, or possibly some allied group of them, it's probably better to be clandestine about recruitment.
Plus, since their lives are probably ruined or ended by their association with you, friends, family, and close associates are a freed up recruitment pool if you can ensure that they don't resent you for it and won't just try to turn on you at the first opportunity. After you get the ball rolling, there's a lot you can offer to make up for what was lost, too.
As for taking responsibility, if you're a level 20 Wizard, you have a lot of tools in your arsenal for screening potential candidates. You can set up a private demiplane with a whole bunch of programmed illusions to act as a test. You can use Detect Thoughts assisted conversation. There are a lot of magical enhanced interrogation techniques available, including a few spells specifically for both torturing someone AND making it more likely that they'll give a truthful result rather than just try to tell you what they think you want to hear in order to make the torture stop.
Researching a 9th level, upgraded, permanent version of Geas would also be worthwhile. As would looking into making spells along the lines of Programmed Amnesia and Mind**** from D&D 3rd Edition.
So... I've given this a LOT of thought. If Nethys, in all of his mad glory, chose to pop over here and grant me 20 levels in a spellcasting class, I'd opt to become a 20th level Reincarnated Druid. I'd be able to do a hell of a lot of good without being unnecessarily tempted by the sheer breadth of power available to a wizard, and it comes with a powerful limiting factor... losing my reverence for nature (humanity being a part of that) would result in the loss of my powers and eventual permanent departure from the mortal realm.
With a couple ranks in Survival, I'd easily be able to survive in the wild for an indefinite amount of time. I'd pick up some crafting feats (wands, wondrous items, staffs). Druidic Herbalism is tempting but I'd rather have animal companion(s). I wont have to worry about being caught because of the auto-reincarnate ability. I'd make them have to terminate me before being captured.
Once I've evaded most of the heat, it is just a matter of time to craft plans to start steering the course of humanity in a better direction. Co-existence with nature being one of highest priority,
Honestly, as long as you don't fall completely off the deep end, ending up a Neutral alignment is still probably a super net good for the world.
Hmm, then again someone who is a 20th level caster and Neutral would probably up and leave. I mean, since this is a big universe (not mentioning other alternative realities that maybe you could reach with plane shift and gate) there would be no reason to stay.
As for being Good or Evil, i guess it ultimately comes up to the person and the people whose lives are being affected. Some acts of Good might be seen as Evil by some. Some acts of Evil might be considered Good.
Meh, that's a pretty pessimistic outlook on the world. Reasons to stay: Vidja gaems, cool people, TTRPGs, stories, etc. There's enough of a content flow to keep someone occupied forever. I'm immortal now so I'll atleast hang out awhile. Neutral doesn't necessarily mean excising yourself from everything. You just act when things personally effect you or the people you care about.
So things I'd want to do for the world before becoming a hermit in disguise playing video games on the couch and showing up to TTRPGs in a wizard hat:
Build an infinite clean energy machine.
Clean up the environment a bit.
Get folks started on colonizing other planets.
Wipe out a few warlords.
Careful that you don't allow worse ones to take their place. That's a problem as long as their is free will. Evil always finds a way to manifest itself. Even if you become so good at it that no one would dare oppose you openly, they will call you a tyrant and seek your destruction. Humans are nothing if not rebellious and contrary when they see a power figure standing in the way of what they want.
Careful that you don't allow worse ones to take their place. That's a problem as long as their is free will. Evil always finds a way to manifest itself. Even if you become so good at it that no one would dare oppose you openly, they will call you a tyrant and seek your destruction. Humans are nothing if not rebellious and contrary when they see a power figure standing in the way of what they want.
Assuming some kind of point buy in play to get an 18 starting Intelligence, then between that and the +2 from Human and +5 from leveling all going into Int, you'd have an Intelligence score of 25 without items and that means that you have 23 spell slots that can be used to cast Fabricate in a day. Using False Focus and a 100 gp holy symbol (Obtainable through Iron Stake + Fabricate or an Arcane Bond's bonded object), you can make 300 gp of product per use of the spell.
22 * 300 = 6600 gp of raw materials for crafting components that you can then use the last Fabricate of the day to turn into 19,800 gp. Otherwise 23 * 300 = 6900 gp of crafting materials per day.
An at-will item of Fabricate that replicates your 100 gp material component limit from False Focus is 5 * 9 * 1800 + 100 * 100 = 81,000 + 10,000 = 91,000 gp. Halved for construction cost that's 50,500 gp. So at 19,800 gp per day, that's 2.5 days, while at 6900 gp per day that's 7.3 days. Then another 23 to 91 days, depending upon whether you've got a Valet familiar or are able to rush your crafting to go from 1K progress to 4K, you've got the item and no longer have to use spell slots to create wealth.
Once you have the item, it just costs 10,000 gp and takes between 2.5 and 10 days of magic item crafting to increase the material component value by 100 and the output value by 300. Or 12,000 gp to increase the material component by 120 and the output value by 360 and make use of a full 3 crafting days.
Or with a Valet familiar you can increase the material component cost by 40 gp each day (40 * 100 = 4000), increasing the ouptut by 120 gp each day. Once you've got the material component cost at 8,333.33 gp, you can make a Diamond suitable to use to cast Wish in one use of Fabricate. That's just 206 days of enhancement after the initial creation of the item.
Assuming you start with the most basic 100 gp material component version of the item and you're creating 10 cubic feet of stuff with each casting so it only takes 1 round, it'll just take ~8798 rounds (about 14 hours and 40 minutes) to accrue the (17 * 9 * 1800) / 2 + 25,000 * 100 = 2,637,700 gp necessary to make an at-will item of Wish. And then another 694 to 2776 days to actually make said at-will item of Wish, or little under 2 years or a bit over 7.5 years.
So probably better to make some more servitors with Cooperative Crafting and some servitors to outright craft magic items for you themselves than to spend several years on that project directly.
A Trompe l'Oeil of yourself would take about 10,666.66 gp in various raw materials and crafting components (less than 5 minutes of non-stop Fabricate at 300 gp of stuff a pop) and take between 5 and 20 days to make and could take over the process of improving the item of Fabricate for you. If you can make a lower level Trompe l'Oeil of yourself, then it takes even fewer days.
So, assuming no Valet familiar, it's about 112 days from when Nethys appears to when you no longer have to worry about crafting materials and have a Trompe l'Oeil crafting servitor. With a Valet Familiar, it's 29 days, less than a full month unless you're in February.
The main thing I can conclude is that even if you can't find a better way to get crafting materials, you can fairly readily eliminate crafting materials as a limiting factor on magic item creation.
Careful that you don't allow worse ones to take their place. That's a problem as long as their is free will. Evil always finds a way to manifest itself. Even if you become so good at it that no one would dare oppose you openly, they will call you a tyrant and seek your destruction. Humans are nothing if not rebellious and contrary when they see a power figure standing in the way of what they want.
*shrug* I have eternity to figure it out if the sheer boost in all my mental stats doesn't solve everything at once. Once folks start dropping dead with calling cards, they'll figure it out too. If they can be so subtly corrupt that it doesn't really bother anyone, then good for them. They've earned it.
Plus with a 20th level Wizard's abilities, there's methods to be impossible to retaliate from. I can be some random shmuck from anywhere once the ball is rolling and disappear for a few days, knock some heads, and go back to relaxing and enjoying life.
I'd probably be a spell sage wizard so I can snip the good stuff from the other lists.
ok let's say that nethys has given you the ability to be a level 20 magician and you are happy about it however he is insane and if he tell you nothing that he has done the same thing with 1 or more people around the world. What would you do if you discovered this or if by revealing your existence you will show him Or the others that you weren't the only ones who's this 2-faced god chose
Arcane Discoveries of most interest seem to be Fast Study (mostly for quick turn-around after resting during that initial day-or-so and for being able to prepare more on the fly as you do things going forward), Immortality, Forest's Blessing (replace more exotic material components with gems, potentially simplifying things), Arcane Builder (faster crafting of items). Observant Illusion could also be nice, especially with Shadow Conjuration line spells to cast Draconic Ally and then other magic to disguise it.
Wondrous Items and/or Constructs are the biggest ones of interest for Arcane Builder. If not worth taking for both of them, since you can't retrain a class feature without a level 21 Wizard that has the class feature that you want.
Coidzor wrote:
Some Crafting Shenanigans
** spoiler omitted **...
Correction: I forgot to take into account the days spent casting Fabricate to get the raw materials to start crafting the item of Fabricate. That should be between 31 and 119 days to get a crafting construct and an at-will Fabricate item. So between about a month and about 4 months.
Math:
With Valet Familiar and the more generous interpretation of Fabricate: Day 1 + 2.5 days (can start crafting on the last half of day 4) + 23 days = 26 days to get the at-will Fabricate item. Then 5 days to get the Trompe l'Oeil. 26 + 5 = 31.
Without Valet Familiar and with the more conservative interpretation of Fabricate: Day 1 + 7.3 days (can start crafting on the last 70% of day 9) + 91 days = 99 days to get the at-will Fabricate item. Then 20 days to get the Trompe l'Oeil. 99 + 20 = 119.
