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DC 45 Know (planes), setup allowed. A half-elf lore oracle with skill focus (+3), the focused trance revelation (+20 circumstance), legalistic curse (+4 morale), the lore keeper revelation via extra revelation (use Cha for know skills, say +4), and 1 rank in the skill (+1 rank, +3 class) can take 10 to learn the true name at level 1.
If taking 10 is an issue here (it shouldn't be) wait until level 3 and get the think on it revelation.
Yeah, not a problem.
Edit: probably best not to treat those true names as things of awesome power, all things considered. Though there's no obvious way to use one against Pazuzu - he's well above the HD limit for greater planar binding.
as mere mortals can take one feat (and make a mask) to get rid of any hold their old names (including their true name if any) have on them...i always consider cr20+ creatures of immense knowledge and centuries (if not millennials) of years in existence to automatically have gained or formed a similar (and improved) ability. their current true name that can be known via dc 10+cr is their made up name (like in the feat) sorta like a phone number, made to set up communication and hide their Real true name. one which no amount of knowledge checks can tell. it require actual research (aka questing).
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Yeah I think most Demon Lords would be much harder than a DC:45 check.
Having said that, I think Pazuzu's true name is probably "Pazuzu".
Pazuzu can hear when people say his name from any plane of existence. If you say his name 3 times he can possess you. He wants you to know his true name, he wants you to try to use this knowledge to gain power - it's basically his whole M.O.
I think Pazuzu has weaponized his True Name in a way no one else has, and he uses his own name against those who would use it against him ... but maybe that's just me. I may be reading more into it than is there.
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you see, in my case he didn't weaponize his "true' name. rather a name he made after hiding his true name. so fools who seek his power get themselves into a trap without the risk of weakening himself to attacks\contracts etc.
why would he reveal his real true name when any made up name will do?
the greatest lie of Pazuzu and his summoning name is that it's not actually his REAL name at all...
It's so much fun to terrify veteran players by telling them that there is a powerful demon that apparently grants wishes with(in some cases) no drawback, consequences, or strings attached.
They get so skeptical and nervous and looking for whatever the drawback is. But the best way to run him AFAIC is to have him basically be a near divine drug dealer. The first sample is free, want another? Tell your friends :) that way more people can have a taste. More? Don't worry, it's not hurting your soul. I promise.
I imagine he’s like that. Balor demon hunting the crystal shard in one of the books. He got summoned and instead of conversations immediately inspected the circle saw a error and slaughtered the young mage.
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After re-reading the OP I realized we got a bit caught up with Pazuzu lore - the question wasn't really about Pazuzu, it was about the mechanics for knowing an Outsider's True Name.
Where are the mechanics for this written? It seems like a really trivial thing if it's just a knowledge check, even a high one.
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Ultimate Magic pg. 101. It's a penalty to outsiders to resist being called by planar binding (which anything over 20ish HD can't be anyway) and to be held by a magic circle.
I don't think you can take-10 on library checks. Is that something I'm misremembering?
So it's not quite just "make a knowledge check", there's some time and activity involved. Also it's DC:10+HD+x, with x representing the power of the Outsider. So Pazuzu would likely be a DC:55, which - while still achievable - is certainly higher.
I agree that it's still a bit simple for a mid-to-high level wizard, but there is some work involved. There's also enough flavour there that a GM can impose some complications fairly easily, so if this is going to break the game there's time to un-break it before it happens.
The Arcane Discovery is a waste of a Discovery by the level it can be taken because it can be replaced with downtime and a DC 22 Knowledge check which any 11th level wizard should be able to accomplish even with a debilitating head injury.
I think you are a bit mistaken. The True Name section in magic is entirely separate from the Arcane Discovery. Kinda silly to give everyone who makes a Kn.Planes check an 11th level Wizard Discovery.
I don't think you can take-10 on library checks. Is that something I'm misremembering?I don't see any specific reason why one wouldn't be able to take 10 in a library. You're not in immediate danger and not distracted. The only reason one can't take 20 is the penalty for failing by 5 or more (and the fact that it would then take 20 months to research makes it impractical in most campaigns).
It's in the research rules, so unless there are different kinds of research you can't take 10 or 20 on research rolls .
Attempting a Research check requires an uninterrupted 8-hour period of research, and a character cannot take 10 or 20 on a Research check.
I think you are a bit mistaken. The True Name section in magic is entirely separate from the Arcane Discovery. Kinda silly to give everyone who makes a Kn.Planes check an 11th level Wizard Discovery.
The Arcane Discovery is a waste of a Discovery by the level it can be taken because it can be replaced with downtime and a DC 22 Knowledge check which any 11th level wizard should be able to accomplish even with a debilitating head injury.
I don't think it would be reasonable for a GM to argue that there are two types of true name that give different benefits and would sympathise with any player who expected a true name from the Kn:P check to function exactly as that from the Discovery. And I say this as a GM whose feelings on those rules are pretty clear by this point :)
I completely agree that it's silly. And that's my objection to those (admittedly optional) rules. They make what should be a cool wizard power, or an option for an interesting plot point, entirely pointless and they don't seem to align with the spirit of what a true name is flavoured as representing.
The discovery ability is a Spell-Like ability. It's kind of like saying how a Judge with Profession(Barrister) making a Judgement on a person suddenly grants them Inquisitor powers.
Also it's DC:10+HD+x, with x representing the power of the Outsider. So Pazuzu would likely be a DC:55, which - while still achievable - is certainly higher.True, but as noted above, the highest HD that the check is actually relevant for is 20 (outside of various story reasons to learn the True Name(tm) of a more powerful creature, which shouldn't be ignored). Meaning DC30. It's hard to argue (IMO) that an additional +10 should be added for a creature that's only >60% the 'powerfulness' of the highest HD outsiders. Might be able to justify a +5. So total DC35?
That seems inconsistent to me. If the highest possible HD creatures don't get the highest possible DC then who gets the +10 modifier?
Is it just there to be like: "There are even scarier outsiders, but you don't even KNOW" ...?
The part that is largely left up to the GM is how this powerful Outsider is going to royally screw over the moron that summons it...
But honestly, Planar Binding limits it to "actually not THAT powerful" of an Outsider. Lol.
Pit Fiends, Maharaja, some Qlippoth...
Greater Planar Binding is an 8th level spell... Wizards get it at 15, Sorcerers and Summoners get it at 16... assuming these aforementioned spellcasters are not working completely alone, the ~CR20 beast they may call is actually just about right for a boss fight (if things go awry). It's getting close to end, anyways. And spellcasters of this level are already capable of such nonsense, that adding an Outsider to the mix isn't so bad...
At least the Outsider is relatively contained in its potential mischief. It's stat-block is set, and the GM should constantly be trying to get the Outsider free of the player's control. There is always a way, a loophole, a missed clause, "i's" left un-dotted, "t's" left uncrossed... unless they write contracts like Bob Kane's lawyer.
Anyways, point is, by the time you are capable of calling 20HD Outsiders, it doesn't matter if you do, or don't, call 20HD Outsiders... you are capable of your own shenanigans that are already near as powerful as the abilities and powers of what you can call. Lol.
Nevermind the attention you may bring upon yourself by doing this. Some of these Outsiders being on a different plane than where they "belong" may attract armies of their enemies to immediately dispatch/banish/kill/imprison the Outsider you worked so hard to summon. They may just hold you responsible/accomplice, and punish you accordingly.
But of which outsider does one learn the true name? A specific Pit Fiend identified by the PC beforehand (and how?) or is it just a random Pit Fiend who happened to get doxxed 100 years ago and whose true name is now all over the Golarion equivalent of Reddit?
One should be much harder than the other.