Gathlains have a lot more than silly SLA's or DR... they have flight, and are small without a Strength penalty... and they can grow armor spikes (great for little flying Monks)... [/QUOTE
Gathlain are indeed pretty busted when you look at their abilities, the only thing that ''hurts'' them is the penalty to constitution. As i pretty much only play E6, i don't think i would ever allow one, they are 12 points, but each of their traits are optimized toward useful battle trait.
- Fly? Check
- Increase Ac? Check. If you factor in their dexterity and size they actually increase their AC by 3.
- Useful Combat Spell-Like Abilities? Check.
They have 0 skill bonus, no quirky abilities, nothing. Pure combat abilities.
A few years back, when I helped contribute to Kobold Cleaver's PaRaProMo race creation stuff, I definitely didn't make use of the race builder stuff whatsoever. For the most part, I tried to eyeball it off actual race examples we had, and retrofitted it to the race point values.
But, ultimately, that system is extremely basic and horribly unrealistic for what constitutes a properly made character race. You definitely can create some serious messes with the system if you wanted.
And then comes along the ganzi reprint and I'm just astonished they'd actually print 20 fighter levels as a race trait.
They have simple/martial proficiency, and can take feats with Fighter level prerequisites... which is neat... but it's not 20 levels of Fighter. Still probably a little much for a racial feature...
Makes for a way into Eldritch Knight without multiclassing, though.
I've remade all the classic races for my homebrew setting (so many types of elves!), but never gotten to run anything with the changes. The one I'd really like to test is my dwarves; whenever they're subject to a spell that allows a Fort or Will save, they're treated as having automatically succeeded the save... ANY spell. Even those that are harmless or purely beneficial.
Alright, it took me forever, and I’m not 100% satisfied with it, but here is the Kokiri race I was making:
Kokiri:
Kokiri Racial Traits: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma, -4 Strength: Kokiri are agile, wise, and have strong personalities, but they aren’t very strong.
Fey: Kokiri are fey.
Small: Kokiri are Small and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty on combat maneuver checks and to CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Normal Speed: Kokiri have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Kokiri can see twice as far as humans in dim light.
Nature Life: Kokiri are adapted to living in nature, and gain a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (Nature) and Survival checks.
Fey Resilience: A kokiri with this racial trait gains DR 1/cold iron. This DR increases by 1 for every 5 HD the kokiri has.
Natural Healer: Kokiri receive Fey Foundling as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Child of the Forest: Kokiri are bonded to forests, and gain the following abilities while in a forest:
1: Kokiri select three 0-level druid spells and one 1st-level druid spell. If they have a Charisma score of 11 or higher, when in forests, they gain these spells as spell-like abilities that can be cast once per day. The caster level for these effects is equal to the user's character level. The DC for the spell-like abilities is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the user's Charisma modifier.
2: Kokiri can move through natural difficult terrain at their normal speed while within forests. Magically altered terrain affects them normally.
3: Kokiri gain a +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks while within forests.
4: Kokiri gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC when in forests.
Weapon Familiarity: Kokiri are proficient with all bows, short swords, longswords, and greatswords.
Languages: Kokiri begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Kokiri with a high intelligence score can choose from the following languages: Aquan, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Tengu, and Treant.
Kokiri Alternate Racial Traits: Friend of the Hero of Time: The older kokiri tell tales of an adoptive kokiri, whose true race has been lost to time. This child was blessed by Shyka, and saved entire worlds from destruction with the powers of time manipulation. A kokiri who had interacted with this hero of time can take this racial trait, gaining Ineffable Count of the Clock as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces natural healer.
Healing Sprite: Most kokiri eventually gain a smaller fey as a traveling companion, but some also learn how to gain the aid of healing fey. As a standard action once per day, kokiri with this racial trait can surround themselves with the image of a pink illuminated sprite circling them, that affects them as faerie fire and grants fast healing 2. The sprite lasts for 3 rounds plus 1 additional round per 2 character levels the kokiri possesses. This racial trait replaces fey resilience.
Pathfinder Race Builder Kokiri RP Calculations:
Type: Fey (RP 2)
Size: Small (RP 0)
Speed: Normal Speed (RP 0) Kokiri have a 30 ft land speed.
Ability Scores: Weakness (+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -4 Strength, RP -1)
Advanced Charisma (RP 4)
Language: Standard (Common+Sylvan, Aquan, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Tengu, Treant RP 0)
Defense Traits: Bond to the Land, Lesser (Forest, homebrew (This is Bond to the Land, but instead of choosing a terrain at character creation, every member of the race has the same terrain. It is valued at 1 RP by comparing it to Camouflage and Terrain Stride), RP 1)
Fey Resilience (This is the Gathlain alternate racial trait, RP 2)
Feat and Skill Traits: Camouflage (Forest, RP 1)
Static Bonus Feat (Fey Foundling, RP 2)
Skill Bonus x2 (Knowledge (Nature) and Survival, RP 4)
Magical Traits: Fey Magic, Lesser (HotW, Forest, this is an alternate racial trait for many races, homebrew (Same situation as Bond to the Land, Lesser, but still 2 RP due to Kokiri already being a Fey source), RP 2)
Movement Traits: Terrain Stride (Forest, RP 1)
Offensive Traits: Weapon Familiarity x2 (Bows, Short Swords, Longswords, and Greatswords RP 2)
Senses: Low-Light Vision (RP 0 (comes with Fey Type))
RP: 20
Alternate Racial Traits: Static Bonus Feat (Ineffable Count of the Clock, Trade Fey Foundling, RP 2)
Nimbus of Vitality (This is the Gathlain alternate racial trait, Trade Fey Resilience, RP 2)
It has a little bit of homebrew, but I feel like it was justified. Hopefully someone will find this useful.
EDIT: If anybody wants me to explain a choice, I can do that, and if you need extra information for some reason, just ask, and I’ll try my best.
20RP is no small amount, but combining Bonded to the Land's +2 Dodge bonus, Fey Resilience's scaling Damage Reduction, and Fey Foundling's increased healing just seems cheesy.
I know the Dodge bonus only applies in certain terrain, the DR isn't much, and you only see the benefit of Fey Foundling when you receive healing... but it looks like an attempt to cover up everything you don't want to worry about so you can focus on something else. It looks too deliberate for me to trust...
20RP is no small amount, but combining Bonded to the Land's +2 Dodge bonus, Fey Resilience's scaling Damage Reduction, and Fey Foundling's increased healing just seems cheesy.
I know the Dodge bonus only applies in certain terrain, the DR isn't much, and you only see the benefit of Fey Foundling when you receive healing... but it looks like an attempt to cover up everything you don't want to worry about so you can focus on something else. It looks too deliberate for me to trust...
Before I start, I had like 4 paragraphs arguing, but ultimately, I came to the conclusion that they need to be weaker, as I actually wanted to make them so with a 100% homebrew trait, but had no idea how to price it. Anyways, I removed the arguing text, and kept the rest with the ideas on how to make them weaker, including the homebrew trait.
If you want, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to give them Mixed Weakness instead of Weakness, for the Ability Score Quality, putting the additional -2 into Intelligence, since they seemingly never invented doors (to the point that Navi had to stop Link inside the Great Deku Tree to explain what they were and how to use them). This would bring them down to 19 RP. I just didn’t do so, because I assumed they intentionally didn’t use doors, because it would mean killing (more) trees to make their homes.
Also, I wanted to give them a 100% homebrew trait (unlike the two I used which were just weaker versions of existing traits) that makes them weaker. Here is the trait if you want to add it in:
Guardian Sprite: Kokiri gain Iron Will as a bonus feat, but must take Familiar Bond as their 1st level feat, Improved Familiar Bond as their 3rd level feat, then Spark of the Uncanny as their 5th level feat (which then automatically trades itself for Improved Familiar). Kokiri can choose any familiar for Familiar Bond, but must use the sage archetype for their familiar, and when they gain Improved Familiar, they must select sprite as the form their familiar takes, except their alignment matches the kokiri’s, and they must continue using the sage archetype. If their familiar ever dies, the kokiri gains 1 negative level that cannot be removed until they replace their familiar, or their familiar is revived.
Honestly your Kokiri race looks pretty cool, i like the fluff abilities they sound fun.
I only have two minor criticism:
- A -4 penalty to strength seems quite intense to me. I don't recall kokiri being notably weak. A -2 would be appropriate given their size, but -4 is kobold level weak.
- I would pick either Natural Healer or Fey Resistance to represant their fey heritage. I feel like both is a tad too much.
As for their RP value, being at 20 point put them one point short of the monstrous category, which is pretty high. I personally don't allow player races over 15 RP. (Well i did technically allow a 16RP races once, but it cost the player a trait) That being said, if you're the DM, then nothing stops you from using it and i'm guessing that the other Zelda races (Hylian, Goron, Zora, etc...) are gonna come out as quite powerful RP-wise. In the end, it honestly looks pretty fun, so that's what counts for the most imo.
As for ''Guardian Sprite'' i'm not sure i'd like that as a player. Being locked on your feats until 7th level looks very restrictive. Instead of forcing them, i would makes these feat available to Kokiri if they are not already.
Honestly your Kokiri race looks pretty cool, i like the fluff abilities they sound fun.
I only have two minor criticism:
- A -4 penalty to strength seems quite intense to me. I don't recall kokiri being notably weak. A -2 would be appropriate given their size, but -4 is kobold level weak.
- I would pick either Natural Healer or Fey Resistance to represant their fey heritage. I feel like both is a tad too much.
As for their RP value, being at 20 point put them one point short of the monstrous category, which is pretty high. I personally don't allow player races over 15 RP. (Well i did technically allow a 16RP races once, but it cost the player a trait) That being said, if you're the DM, then nothing stops you from using it and i'm guessing that the other Zelda races (Hylian, Goron, Zora, etc...) are gonna come out as quite powerful RP-wise. In the end, it honestly looks pretty fun, so that's what counts for the most imo.
As for ''Guardian Sprite'' i'm not sure i'd like that as a player. Being locked on your feats until 7th level looks very restrictive. Instead of forcing them, i would makes these feat available to Kokiri if they are not already.
You know, I could make either Fey Resilience or Natural Healer an alternate trait, replacing the opposite, and make Healing Sprite or Friend of the Hero of Time replace the remaining trait instead.
As for the -4 Strength, that actually came from crossing Ocarina of Time with Pathfinder game mechanics. You see, Young Characters (before the starting age of their race) in Pathfinder have a -2 to Strength. Link as a child could pick up rocks, but there was this one Kokiri, who Mido (the bully/self proclaimed leader (after the Great Deku Tree) of the Kokiri) made break the rocks outside of Saria’s home, in an effort to gain her approval, but this Kokiri couldn’t lift the rocks.
Since Link already would have a -2 to Strength due to the Young Character rules, and Kokiri were weaker than him, the logical step was to give them a -4 to Strength.
But that said, I could see arguments that that was just a weaker Kokiri than normal, so I guess change the Ability Score Quality to Standard, with a -2 to Strength now. That, coupled with removing one of the 2 RP traits, puts them at 19 RP.
Now onto the Guardian Sprite, how about this:
Guardian Sprite: Kokiri ignore the prerequisites on Improved Familiar Bond. If they don’t have a familiar by 4th level, they gain a negative level that can’t be overcome in any way except by gaining a familiar, and if they don’t have Spark of the Uncanny (or Improved Familiar) by 5th level, they gain another negative level until they have done so. If they do have a familiar, it must have the sage archetype, and when they get an Improved Familiar, it must be a sprite. Furthermore, any familiar a Kokiri has shares their alignment, even when they have a sprite familiar. If their familiar ever dies, the kokiri gains 1 negative level that cannot be removed until they replace their familiar, or their familiar is revived.
You know, I could make either Fey Resilience or Natural Healer an alternate trait, replacing the opposite, and make Healing Sprite or Friend of the Hero of Time replace the remaining trait instead.
Sounds good to me!
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
As for the -4 Strength, that actually came from crossing Ocarina of Time with Pathfinder game mechanics. You see, Young Characters (before the starting age of their race) in Pathfinder have a -2 to Strength. Link as a child could pick up rocks, but there was this one Kokiri, who Mido (the bully/self proclaimed leader (after the Great Deku Tree) of the Kokiri) made break the rocks outside of Saria’s home, in an effort to gain her approval, but this Kokiri couldn’t lift the rocks.
Since Link already would have a -2 to Strength due to the Young Character rules, and Kokiri were weaker than him, the logical step was to give them...
Yeah i can see the logic now. Although i'd say that those rocks were actually kinda heavy and probably partly embedded in the ground, which does sound like it's an easy feat to pluck them out of the dirt bare handed. Link is probably the strong one here. Beside young Link likely have a fair amount of strength based on his adult template.
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Guardian Sprite: Kokiri ignore the prerequisites on Improved Familiar Bond. If they don’t have a familiar by 4th level, they gain a negative level that can’t be overcome in any way except by gaining a familiar, and if they don’t have Spark of the Uncanny (or Improved Familiar) by 5th level, they gain another negative level until they have done so. If they do have a familiar, it must have the sage archetype, and when they get an Improved Familiar, it must be a sprite. Furthermore, any familiar a Kokiri has shares their alignment, even when they have a sprite familiar. If their familiar ever dies, the kokiri gains 1 negative level that cannot be removed until they replace their familiar, or their familiar is revived.
As a player i would feel like this is somehow worst. It looks like an Hobson's choice; the drawback is so hefty that there's really only one choice: you have to take the feats.
I realise that this is a drawback that you want to give them, but i'm not sure i'd go this route for a drawback.
If you want them to be cheaper RP-wise, i'd cut on Bond of the Land and the stealth bonus, as they already gain extra AC and stealth from their increase dexterity and their small size.
As for the familiar, i'd make a race trait (if you play with those) that let them pick a Sprite as a valid 1st level familiar if they have the Improved Familiar feat.
Algarik (or anybody else who wants to help), how about the following:
Removing the Skill Bonus to Knowledge (Nature) (-2 RP).
Instead of switching the Ability Score Quality from Weakness to Standard (which would be +1 RP), switch it to Mixed Weakness, putting the -4 into Intelligence (-1 RP).
Remove Bond to the Land, Lesser and Camouflage (-2 RP).
Make Natural Healer an alternate racial trait that replaces Fey Resilience. Make Friend of the Hero of Time replace Fey Resilience (-2 RP)
Instead of Guardian Sprite being a drawback, make it a good thing. It now does the following:
Guardian Sprite: Kokiri gain a sprite familiar with the sage archetype at level 1. The kokiri’s effective wizard level is equal to half their character level (minimum 1). However this special familiar functions differently from a normal familiar, as noted below.
1: Guardian sprites actually have an HD total equal to the effective wizard level of the kokiri, instead of merely an effective HD total. In addition, they do not replace their hp with half that of the kokiri’s.
2: The guardian sprite qualifies as a sage familiar for the feats Boon Companion and Sage’s Guidance, but not for any other purposes. GMs can add feats or class abilities that they qualify as familiars for, as they see fit.
3: The guardian sprite’s alignment matches the kokiri’s.
4: The guardian sprite cannot willingly go further than 100 feet from the kokiri.
5: If the guardian sprite dies, the kokiri gains a negative level until they replace them (as per replacing a normal familiar) or revive the guardian sprite.
How does this sound? I’m probably still off, but now the RP is 13+ whatever Guardian Sprite would be valued at. I’m thinking Guardian Sprite would be +3, but I honestly have no clue. I just hope it isn’t too powerful. While the Guardian Sprite gets extra feats, skill ranks, etc, from the extra HD, their hp will be lower than if they replaced their hp with half of the Kokiri’s. That, coupled with the fact that if they die, the Kokiri gains a negative level, means players aren’t going to want to use their Guardian Sprite recklessly, lest they suffer the consequences.
I know you suggested making Guardian Sprite a race trait, but it just feels wrong to have a Kokiri without their Fairy, and Sprites are the closest thing to Zelda Fairies.
Bunch of stuff sounds good, so i'm gonna focus on where i think it might need some polish, or how i'd do it differently!
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Instead of switching the Ability Score Quality from Weakness to Standard (which would be +1 RP), switch it to Mixed Weakness, putting the -4 into Intelligence (-1 RP).
-2 Intelligence could represent the fact that Kokiris are child and don't really have an education outside of living in their village. -4 puts them into Ogre level intelligence, which is way too low imo. For ability score, i think i'd just keep it at something like +2 dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 strength. I don't recall Kokiris being particularly charismatic. If i recall correctly, when Link was dressed as one and adventuring outside, guards would keep him out of the palace because he was a child. Hylians don't seem to take them seriously.
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Instead of Guardian Sprite being a drawback, make it a good thing. It now does the following:
Guardian Sprite: Kokiri gain a sprite familiar with the sage archetype at level 1. The kokiri’s effective wizard level is equal to half their character level (minimum 1). However this special familiar functions differently from a normal familiar, as noted below.
1: Guardian sprites actually have an HD total equal to the effective wizard level of the kokiri, instead of merely an effective HD total. In addition, they do not replace their hp with half that of the kokiri’s.
2: The guardian sprite qualifies as a sage familiar for the feats Boon Companion and Sage’s Guidance, but not for any other purposes. GMs can add feats or class abilities that they qualify as familiars for, as they see fit.
3: The guardian sprite’s alignment matches the kokiri’s.
4: The guardian sprite cannot willingly go further than 100 feet from the kokiri.
5: If the guardian sprite dies, the kokiri gains a negative level until they replace them (as per replacing a normal familiar) or revive the guardian sprite.
Now this sounds like something i'd like as a player. I know sprites are technically accessible only to 5th level wizard, but honestly outside of being amazing scout and glorified lantern, they don't really unbalance the game. I wouldn't be worried of a player with a sprite familliar at level one. With the 100 feet limitation they can't scout very far either.
With all the modification you've put i'd say that it's probably worth something like 4RP. Even if it has limitation, it's still quite useful and bypass a few prerequisite.
I think i'd add a few thing to the guardian of sprite ability:
1. If the Sprite goes away further than 100 feet, it loses half it's maximum hp, as per the eidolon. If it goes further than twice that range they get knocked out to 0 hp. I'd remove the part where it says they can't go willingly, losing half their HP is a big detriment enough.
2. I'd add a caveat to the effective wizard level that specify that it can't get higher than hd+1. That way if a Kokiri have access to a familiar through its class it still gain some sort of bonus, but it won't stack to a ridiculous amount.
I'd like to see the end result with the tally, i'm curious to see how it would look like!
Here is the revised Kokiri race. Thank you for your help with this.
Kokiri:
Kokiri Racial Traits: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength: Kokiri are agile and wise, but they aren’t very strong.
Fey: Kokiri are fey.
Small: Kokiri are Small and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty on combat maneuver checks and to CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Normal Speed: Kokiri have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Kokiri can see twice as far as humans in dim light.
Nature Life: Kokiri are adapted to living in nature, and gain a +2 racial bonus on Survival checks.
Fey Resilience: A kokiri with this racial trait gains DR 1/cold iron. This DR increases by 1 for every 5 HD the kokiri has.
Child of the Forest: Kokiri are bonded to forests, and gain the following abilities while in a forest:
1: Kokiri select three 0-level druid spells and one 1st-level druid spell. If they have a Charisma score of 11 or higher, when in forests, they gain these spells as spell-like abilities that can be cast once per day. The caster level for these effects is equal to the user's character level. The DC for the spell-like abilities is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the user's Charisma modifier.
2: Kokiri can move through natural difficult terrain at their normal speed while within forests. Magically altered terrain affects them normally.
Guardian Sprite: Kokiri gain a sprite familiar with the sage archetype at level 1. The kokiri’s effective wizard level is equal to half their character level (minimum 1). However this special familiar functions differently from a normal familiar, as noted below.
1: Guardian sprites actually have an HD total equal to the effective wizard level of the kokiri, instead of merely an effective HD total. In addition, they do not replace their hit points with half that of the kokiri’s.
2: The guardian sprite qualifies as a sage familiar for the feats Boon Companion and Sage’s Guidance, but not for any other purposes. GMs can add feats or class abilities that they qualify as familiars for, as they see fit. However, if the kokiri would gain a familiar from another source, the guardian sprite now counts as a familiar for all purposes, and their effective wizard level stacks, to a maximum of HD+1.
3: The guardian sprite’s alignment matches the kokiri’s.
4: If the guardian sprite goes further than 100 feet from the kokiri, they lose half their maximum hit points. If they go further than 200 feet from the kokiri, they drop to 0 hit points. The guardian sprite’s maximum hit points return to normal when they cease being too far away, but their current hit points aren’t restored until they heal it naturally or with magic.
5: If the guardian sprite dies, the kokiri gains a negative level until they replace them (as per replacing a normal familiar) or revive the guardian sprite.
Weapon Familiarity: Kokiri are proficient with all bows, short swords, longswords, and greatswords.
Languages: Kokiri begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Kokiri with a high intelligence score can choose from the following languages: Aquan, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Tengu, and Treant.
Kokiri Alternate Racial Traits: Natural Healer: Some kokiri are more receptive to healing than reducing damage. These kokiri receive Fey Foundling as a bonus feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces fey resilience.
Friend of the Hero of Time: The older kokiri tell tales of an adopted kokiri, whose true race has been lost to time. This child was blessed by Shyka, and saved entire worlds from destruction with the powers of time manipulation. A kokiri who had interacted with this hero of time can take this racial trait, gaining Ineffable Count of the Clock as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces fey resilience.
Healing Sprite: Kokiri gain a sprite as a traveling companion, but some also learn how to gain the aid of healing fey. As a standard action once per day, kokiri with this racial trait can surround themselves with the image of a pink illuminated sprite circling them, that affects them as faerie fire and grants fast healing 2. The sprite lasts for 3 rounds plus 1 additional round per 2 character levels the kokiri possesses. This racial trait replaces fey resilience.
Pathfinder Race Builder Kokiri RP Calculations:
Type: Fey (RP 2)
Size: Small (RP 0)
Speed: Normal Speed (RP 0) Kokiri have a 30 ft land speed.
Ability Scores: Standard (+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength, RP 0)
Language: Standard (Common+Sylvan, Aquan, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Tengu, Treant RP 0)
Defense Traits: Fey Resilience (This is the Gathlain alternate racial trait, RP 2)
Feat and Skill Traits: Skill Bonus (Survival, RP 2)
Magical Traits: Fey Magic, Lesser (HotW, Forest, this is an alternate racial trait for many races, homebrew (This is Fey Magic, but instead of choosing a terrain at character creation, every member of the race has the same terrain. It is valued at 1 RP by comparing it to Camouflage and Terrain Stride, but is raised back to 2 RP due to Kokiri already being a Fey source), RP 2)
Movement Traits: Terrain Stride (Forest, RP 1)
Offensive Traits: Weapon Familiarity x2 (Bows, Short Swords, Longswords, and Greatswords RP 2)
Senses: Low-Light Vision (RP 0 (comes with Fey Type))
Other(?): Guardian Sprite (homebrew, RP 4?)
RP: 15
Alternate Racial Traits: Static Bonus Feat (Fey Foundling, Trade Fey Resilience, RP 2)
Static Bonus Feat (Ineffable Count of the Clock, Trade Fey Resilience, RP 2)
Nimbus of Vitality (This is the Gathlain alternate racial trait, Trade Fey Resilience, RP 2)
I have created many raced with the race builder. I built my take on bixie (tinketbell sized bee people), a half ghoul human, the child of a fetchling + aasimar amongst others. Usuaully when their is no race to do what i want with my character's backstory/concept. I do however, make sure not to tailor it to the exact class I am building as they can get way to op.
When building a race, it would behoove the creator to not have any classes in mind, whatsoever. One should consider how the average member of the race will survive the average day... and being an adventurer out adventuring is FAR outside what could be considered average for any race.
Give them stuff that makes something more than a collection of numbers... like Scent and a racial bonus to Prefession Chef. Sure, Scent can be useful in some builds, and generally should make the character a little more survivable regardless of which class they choose or direction they take their build. A bonus to Profession might get them a few more coppers, but isn't going to break the game.
Even races that have a history of violence are probably many generations removed, and would be focused more on progressing society than evolving into better warriors. So having a bunch of combat related racial features doesn't even make sense, to me.
I spent some time trying to build options for a snakey medusa, drider, and glirtablilu (scorpion centaurs). More for the intellectual curiosity than anything else, since I'd no game to use them in.
Since it doesn't have a point-cost for Magical Beast it's not really worth my time to use all that often.
Magical Beast would be 3 RP, same as for Aberration, Outsider (Native), and Monstrous Humanoid, each of which only has the “Darkvision: 60 feet” trait (and eat/breathe/sleep).
Since it doesn't have a point-cost for Magical Beast it's not really worth my time to use all that often.
Magical Beast would be 3 RP, same as for Aberration, Outsider (Native), and Monstrous Humanoid, each of which only has the “Darkvision: 60 feet” trait (and eat/breathe/sleep).
What about an adjustment for having no weapon or armor proficiencies?
Since it doesn't have a point-cost for Magical Beast it's not really worth my time to use all that often.
Magical Beast would be 3 RP, same as for Aberration, Outsider (Native), and Monstrous Humanoid, each of which only has the “Darkvision: 60 feet” trait (and eat/breathe/sleep).
What about an adjustment for having no weapon or armor proficiencies?
unless you are giving racial hit die, i would assume that Magical Beast PCs exchange their racial proficiencies and class skills for those of their class per the humanoid racial rules, as Aberrations, Monstrous Humanoids, and Outsiders (Native) appear to do:
humanoids wrote:
Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class.
Humanoids with a character class use their class’s skill list instead.
Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
Yeah, the type doesn't bring any proficiencies with it... there is literally something specifically for familiarity with weapons.
Little things like seeing if you can have racial weapon proficiency or class skills, without paying the RP cost for weapon familiarity or skill bonuses stinks like cheese.
since inception DnD 3.0 and thus PF1 have had issues with weapon proficiencies. It was a case of mostly all(getting a wide swath of proficiencies with your race or class) or nothing (getting a few and then requiring a Feat for every weapon due to "Feat granularity"). I mark it up as a design issue/bias that carried over from AD&D days.
Addressed this many(20+) years ago in my home game.
Magical beast also get low-light vision though I am surprised they don't get scent.
No type actually starts with scent. Scent is an advanced trait listed at 4 RP in the race builder.
Holy crap... scent, alone, is worth 80% of an entire Kobold. Lol.
Oof, poor kobold lol. They have it pretty rough, not gonna lie.
Although, if Goblin didn't have +4 in dexterity, Kobold would be great for Dex build with high AC. Imo, Kobold should have been -2 Str, +2 Dex and +2 intelligence to show their craftiness. Or something like that. Oh well, i guess there's some charm to build something strong with weak races.
VoodistMonk wrote:
I started with the quasi-scent a Tengu gets that can smell when people are below half health... I used it to tell my team when to use potions. Lol.
Hey buddy, you smell ripe, might want to bandage that up...
That's great lol. Reminds me of that meme that goes like this:
Cleric : '' Hey Fighter, how many hit points do you have left?''
DM: '' Guys, you can't just ask how many hit points you have in character, roleplay it out!''
Fighter: '' Oh Okay. I'd say that on a scale of 1 to 57, i feel like a 17.''
DM: '' ...''
Kobolds are my litmus test... they are the metric by which I judge players of PF1. If someone doesn't like Kobolds, chances are we probably won't get along. Lol.
See, I am not a power-gamer, and I don't really associate with "those people"... and Kobolds are perfectly workable when flavor/spirit means more than mechanical optimization.
Kobolds have access to some above-average racial options (some FCB, tail attachments etc.), something that is difficult to reflect with race points.
On the other hand, there are races like orang-pendak which definitely have their niche but little to none options for customization. Though it might be relaxing for some players if they don't "have" to dig through all possible options - because there are no further options. I will readily admit I'd be one of these players...
I can definitely get lost in alternative racial features... like ooh, does this work with this, oh wait, what's that?
Pretty soon I have an entirely different character theorycrafted in my notes than what I set out to build... it's probably based on some random crap I just found that MIGHT synergize with some random class ability I think I remember, or some feat that I was probably wrong about anyways.
And that is how you end up with over 250 different characters in various stages of completion. Lol.
That's great lol. Reminds me of that meme that goes like this:
Cleric : '' Hey Fighter, how many hit points do you have left?''
DM: '' Guys, you can't just ask how many hit points you have in character, roleplay it out!''
Fighter: '' Oh Okay. I'd say that on a scale of 1 to 57, i feel like a 17.''
DM: '' ...''
I chose the 3RP Aberration/Monstrous Humanoid/Outsider for Darkvision... and I wanted something with some flavor.
Small size/Slow Speed/Flight is another 3RP.
Linguist language selection/Envoy SLA package is 2RP combined. 4RP total if you take the optional Gift of Tongues.
Master Tinkerer and Skill Training come standard for a baked-in 3RP.
2RP for the Flexible Ability Modifier, because negatives are stupid. I chose Dex and Wisdom.
And I threw in a 1RP Defensive Ability... either Mist Child or Undead Resistant... doesn't matter, really.
I really didn't make them directed towards combat, at all. I can make literally anything do decent in combat with the plethora of class abilities out there. I wanted something that can help even a big dumb Fighter not be completely useless out of combat. Kind of ran with a Linguist theme, had to pick something. Lol. Gathlain would probably be better (and is "cheaper")... I just don't like Fey.
