It was changed to 9/17 so for 14 out of 20 lvls they have the same spellcasting proficiency as full casters and 4 out of the 6 that they are not are lvl 15+Worth noting that Legendary is just an endgame thing. The Summoner has the same casting proficiency for more levels than it doesn't.
And Master Casting is very weak compared to Legendary. 10% in PF2 is a huge difference in capability.Full casters get Expert at lvl 7 and Master at lvl 15, then Legendary 19.
The summoner gets Expert at 11 and Master at 19.
Then there is massive fewer slots. 4 top slots compared to 28 slots for a 3 spells per level caster and 37 spells for a 4 slot per caster caster.
It's not close. Not sure why people are trying to make it seem like the summoner will play anything a full caster. It won't. It will play like a martial with a few spells cast with weaker ability.
Still will not play like a full caster at all with the weak number of spell slots and action starvation using the eidolon as it was built in the playtest.
It will play like a martial with some spellcasting ability.
So what exact point are people on here trying to make with the claims that 4 slots will keep with the massive more slots of a full caster?
And is the summoner going to go all in on charisma like a caster will go all in their casting slot? Including picking up an Apex item for charisma to be a better caster?
I'm thinking likely not given to max their eidolon's martial abilities, they will likely need to get an Apex item to boost strength or to stand up to damaging attacks need an Apex item on constitution?
What's the argument here? I'm saying a summoner will play more like a martial. Are you saying it will play more like a caster? How do you optimize the summoner as a caster? You going to max out charisma and spend your Apex item on charisma? Or spend it on strength to boost up the eidolon for martial combat?
Or will the summoner just run suboptimal? Lay out the mechanics of your build as a competing caster?
Lot of ways actually, staves (that are confirmed to work on them), scrolls, spellhearts, heck, even have spellcasting Eidolons like the Fey one and feats that gives the Eidolon spells.
It will not play like a Caster and not even like a Martial, but will play like a mix of the two because that will likely be the way to take advantage of their enhanced action economy (specially the new Act together) and statd.
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What build? the book doesn't come out for another couple of months, we literally can't build it for you. Best we can do is note that the following are true:
- The thing the other people are telling you about proficiency are true, you match it for most of the levels, and the Eidolon gets its own scores, it was confirmed the Summoner can basically have two 18s this way.
- Mark mentioned his Summoner is performing quite well with a spell + melee act together rotation, and offering pinch healing.
- It was confirmed that not only can you take options to give Eidolons a significant amount of spell casting, but you can even put that spellcasting back onto the Summoner if you prefer.
- They use Wands and Staves as well as any other caster, and since gold scales exponentially it should not be hard to gain access to a lot of low level spell casting.
- You're a charisma caster so it wouldn't be hard to augment the above with Innate magic.
- The top two slot levels are the most important for combat casting, which you do have.
- Your apex probably depends heavily on build, since it sounds like not all Summoners, even optimally, need to have melee eidolons.
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I expect the Magus and Summoner will have a very unique playstyle that doesn't really fit into Martial or Spellcaster playstyle as we know it today. I think the Magus will hit hard and burst extremely well on a focused target while the Summoner will offer smaller bits of individual damage, but through their action economy and wealth of options will ultimately do big damage pieced together.
As The-Magic-Sword mentioned above, there should be multiple ways to get more spells (frankly I forgot about Innate Magic as a good option), however I think they'll end up strapped for cash quite often. They are going to want to buy runes to improve their Eidolon while also stocking up on scrolls/wands/staves like a spellcaster. There are going to be some hard choices there.
I have to say I feel bad for the levels we are behind on spellcasting proficiency as it seems the limited wave casting should have been enough for me, but I can live with it only being 6 levels. Levels 7& 8 are going to feel particularly bad in PFS play though.
All-in-all the Summoner looks like it will be a unique playstyle that I am very much looking forward to right now. Ultimately the evolutions are going to make or break it for me as they need to allow some unique abilities and I don't want it to just be a reflavor of fighter/barbarian feats. The one that provides Trample that they mentioned has me exited as it opens up to potentially others that are more like monster abilities than fighter abilities and that is what I want.
I'm pretty sure you can build both a functional Magus or Summoner without investing in their spellcasting stats whatsoever. Both the classes benefit a lot from buffs and utility and they don't need to either force saves or use spell attack rolls to be effective.
Though I still think they are more comparable to martials with spellcasting dedications, their spellcasting is way more powerful than those IMO.
Well Magus deal will be more how you will plan your turns, as Spellstrike after using you need to recharge either using an action or a Magus focus spell (the initial ones all have strikes on it, so it would give MAP to spellstrike if you use after, though at lvl 4 you can pick Force fang that is the Magus version of Wizard Force bolt) and Arcane Cascade that is a stance that you need to use an action after using a spell.
So you could
Stride + Spellstrike
Focus Spell + Arcane Cascade + Free and have Spellstrike ready for the next turn.
Or
Cantrip/Spell + Arcane Cascade
Stride + Spellstrike
Or even go full spellstrike but using the 3rd action to recharge and forget Arcane Cascade.
So basically the main deal of the class is to decide when and how you will Spellstrike, recharge it and enter Arcane Cascade, from the looks of it the action economy is pretty tight, making that you might want to plan ahead and you might lose more if someone trip or inflict stun/slow on you.
Magus stuff
I like a lot the idea of starting with Shield -> Stance -> Stride/Strike/Recall Knowledge
With free hand Magus I also like the idea of Spellstriking and then using the focus spell to switch targets if you start next to a dangerous enemy (if the teleport+Strike is 1 action and doesn't require to hit to recharge).
The more I think of the class the more hyped I get, class is super cool and has lots of intricate combos between actions and we don't even know half of the class yet.
What build? the book doesn't come out for another couple of months, we literally can't build it for you. Best we can do is note that the following are true:
- The thing the other people are telling you about proficiency are true, you match it for most of the levels, and the Eidolon gets its own scores, it was confirmed the Summoner can basically have two 18s this way.
- Mark mentioned his Summoner is performing quite well with a spell + melee act together rotation, and offering pinch healing.
- It was confirmed that not only can you take options to give Eidolons a significant amount of spell casting, but you can even put that spellcasting back onto the Summoner if you prefer.
- They use Wands and Staves as well as any other caster, and since gold scales exponentially it should not be hard to gain access to a lot of low level spell casting.
- You're a charisma caster so it wouldn't be hard to augment the above with Innate magic.
- The top two slot levels are the most important for combat casting, which you do have.
- Your apex probably depends heavily on build, since it sounds like not all Summoners, even optimally, need to have melee eidolons.
We'll see who is right when it comes out.
I think it will play more like a martial and that should be the focus of it. Maxing out master casting while also disadvantaging yourself on stats by maxing your spellcasting stat for already weak casting is a bad way to build.
The most bang for the buck will come from maxing the eidolon physical stats including an Apex item on strength.
The 2 high level spellcasting slots (total of 4 for the level just behind) is still 2/3rds to half of what other casters will get. So best to focus on bang for the buck spells like heals or buffs like heroism which enhance melee. An occasional attack spell might be ok for a nova here and there, but can also lead to some really lame rounds.
Summoning has already proven to be exceptionally weak. I've seen people again and again and again try to use summoning in combat and do absolutely nothing. Basically like shooting a beebee gun at a monster because summoned monsters are too many levels behind to be effective. Unless they added some attack bonus boost for summoned creatures, that won't be a viable strategy.
That leaves the summoner with a similar focus to a martial. Max out its martial abilities to maximize damage and effectiveness. You have the necessary utility to handle buffing the eidolon yourself, so you won't need the utility casting regular martials need to engage some targets.
Innate spellcasting is pretty worthless and suboptimal. I never take it. Never see anyone take innate casting. It doesn't scale well and becomes a wasted feat as you advance.
Magic items can enhance somewhat. They will not make you equal a full caster. Or good at counteracting. But will provide some utility. Still unlikely to replace your martial combat routine with your eidolon.
We'll see what people build when the book releases. My prediction is the summoner will compete for a martial position in a group. They will play like a multiclass martial-caster for optimization.
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I read the word gunblade in the discription of G&G
FF8 was my first jrpg
If those things are anything like in FF8 (or 14 for that matter) I am so going to use it pretty much independent of what my character concept is going to be
I even reconstructed a gunblade in Mutants and Masterminds (wasnt easy, quite happy with the result)
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I read the word gunblade in the discription of G&G
FF8 was my first jrpg
If those things are anything like in FF8 (or 14 for that matter) I am so going to use it pretty much independent of what my character concept is going to beI even reconstructed a gunblade in Mutants and Masterminds (wasnt easy, quite happy with the result)
Pretty sure the weapons by themselves are just firearms with a pointy blade. What i'm hoping for is gunblade specific feats for Gunslinger (and maybe inventor) for that FF feel.
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Lot of ways actually, staves (that are confirmed to work on them)...
Do you have a source for this because I never saw or heard anything to the effect so far? Did they clarify with context in the Spellcasting Feature that this is the case or did they end up reformatting the Spells/Slots table so that they no longer show "-" for their lost levels of Spells?
All in all, that's great news, though I DO worry that Arcane Magus and Summoner are both going to end up with each effectively having mandatory equipment in the form of the best Staff they can afford along with the highest Ring of Wizardry possible so they can triple their daily spells.
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Lot of ways actually, staves (that are confirmed to work on them)...Do you have a source for this because I never saw or heard anything to the effect so far? Did they clarify with context in the Spellcasting Feature that this is the case or did they end up reformatting the Spells/Slots table so that they no longer show "-" for their lost levels of Spells?
All in all, that's great news, though I DO worry that Arcane Magus and Summoner are both going to end up with each effectively having mandatory equipment in the form of the best Staff they can afford along with the highest Ring of Wizardry possible so they can triple their daily spells.
Paizocon stream, Magus even have a Staff subclass AND a lvl 6 class feat to fuse a staff with a weapon so they don't need to drop their main weapon to draw a staff.
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Am I right in thinking that Soulforge Wardens are great at making Sentai/Guyver characters, summoning weapons and armor as need be?
Am I right in thinking that Soulforge Wardens are great at making Sentai/Guyver characters, summoning weapons and armor as need be?
Super Sentai was specifically cited as an inspiration during the livestream, yes.
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I'd like to make a character looking to figure out just what is the secret of mana magic, myself. ;3