It's that time of year again, a new book's release on the horizon, spoilers all around, the thinking juices are flowing like Niagara, and new or existing character ideas are now viable. So I ask you, dear people of the forums, WHO/WHAT DO YOU PLAN TO PLAY WITH SoM AND G&G CONTENT!
Let me begin, I have 2 or 3 character ideas, one purely of SoM, one purely of G&G, and the other is an existing character that is an import from 1E.
I'm excited to see what ideas you all have, looking forward to any zany concepts you all come up with ^.^
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I'm going to play a Gnoll Magus with a Scythe for Strength of Thousands.
In Mummy's Mask, I played a gnoll cleric of Pharasma, who after that campaign had gone back to spread the faith of Pharasma to the Gnolls. This character is going to be a descendant/follower of that cult.
The summoner and Eidolon do share HP still. And about that black blade you could use the Soul Forger archetype, from what it was said it let you put special properties on weapons like per example thrown on a great sword.
I personally could try the Runelord Wizard to keep the huge amount of slots to test the new spells.
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I have a suspicion that Magus might be a lot of fun in the Strength of Thousands AP, and I'm wondering how to build a party of all Magi. I have a ton of Magus concepts to work on now. I'm excited to see how it pairs with various Free Archetype builds.
Like the Magus/Wizard/Witch with Arcana and spell slots galore.
Or the Magus/Cleric/Paladin with low level slots filled up with buffs and heals.
Or the Druid/Magus with the occasional surprise double whammy.
I want to do the theorycrafting but I need the deets!
100% going to do a Magus in SoT.
I was thinking a kitsune with ifrit heritage, staying in his human form most of the time, appearing as a human originating from Qadira or Osirion, with the ifrit glowing parts and all.
Since by default, the free archetypes from the campaign are either wizard or druid, both would fit pretty well to either part of his dual-nature.
Really want to make a Magus/Inventor, a sword-nerd trying to make an ultimate sword with both magic and modifications. Maybe going for a gunblade to go fully over the top !
Old man magus with staff and sword for big Gandalf vibes is also on the list, at least for a oneshot.
I got my wish for a fire druid, and by golly I'm gonna play one. Probably gonna do elementalist casting, too, for maximum fire.
I also have a fist fighting magis I'm playing in Abomination vaults. I can't wait to give him an update to full rules.
Echoing gnoll magus, seems like a really fun pairing.
Really interested in the elemental options, but I'm going to have to take a closer look at them before figuring out what I want to make.
Going to be recreating an old character, a gnoll witch and diabolist named Paegin.
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I really like the Monster Hunter type stuff from Guts and Gears. A Craft/Nature specialist using taxidermy weapons sounds great.
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I'm going to play a Gnoll Magus with a Scythe for Strength of Thousands.
In Mummy's Mask, I played a gnoll cleric of Pharasma, who after that campaign had gone back to spread the faith of Pharasma to the Gnolls. This character is going to be a descendant/follower of that cult.
I adore every bit of this.
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With the arrival of Secrets of Magic I'm going to revisit some classes I left out like the sorcerer and the witch. The new class archetypes are very welcome, but I'm more interested in the new spells that will come with the book. I want to see what spells will be add to the divine spell list, as I always have trouble finding spells that fit my characters' theme. Whether i am the sorcerer with demonic, devil and undead blood lines or the witch with fevor patron i think divine spells are now very much focused on the good hero theme, but I really like heroes who deal with this duality who are good but have powers coming from evil beings. To achieve this effect, it is easier, for example, to choose to be tiefling or damphir with a bloodline from the occult spells list than to choose a bloodline with divine spells list.
Now, what about guns and gears? Firearms, Vehicles, Gadgets and Magic!
Weapons made from monsters?????
Gunsliger and Inventor!!!!
This book will take pathfinder 2e fantasy to the next level. Imagine a setting where a witch hits a headshot with a sniper on an undead! I can't even begin to talk about how many scenarios can be made from this book.
If a witch with a firearm is already amazing imagine her being cursed and now her fun is walking under the moonlight killing monsters while searching for the one who turned her into a thirsty vampire. BOOK OF THE DEAD!!!
I am also very curious to see how the Magus multiclass plays out. It might be interesting to use with a druid or warpriest.
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I intend to build a gnome or halfling tinkerer/summoner who accidentally bound his soul to the golem he created, giving it life but linking his to it.
I am also very curious to see how the Magus multiclass plays out. It might be interesting to use with a druid or warpriest.
From the spoilers.
Dedication give cantrips as normal.
Lvl 4 can pick spellstrike 1/minute without any way to recharge in battle.
Their casting feats gives waves casting instead of the normal caster spellcasting feats.
With a Swashbuckler might be interesting, like go Tumble Through, if get a success use the finisher as normal, if you fail do a spellstrike, a nice thing to do once per battle.
In PF1, the magus didn't interest me in the slightest. I didn't see the point of not just playing an eldritch knight.
But this is a new game. So I'm very interested in checking out both the magus and the summoner.
I limit access to any sort of guns or gunslinger class in my games. But for the right game, it could be cool. Especially if I convert a Skull & Shackles game!
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I'm going to make a Magus, there's no question at all that I will have AT LEAST one, and its practically guaranteed that it will be a Laughing Shadow Magus-- Teleport Striking is EXACTLY what I look for in a Spell Sword.
I might go the nostalgia route and resurrect another 4e character of mine, my 'steamsoul' Genasi Swordmage Maiel Sal'Kanyana. Aside from his marking abilities, I can pull off all the important parts with an Undine Laughing Shadow Magus who takes the Mistsoul Lineage feat. Alternatively I've been raring to make a Fetchling and this is a quality consideration here.
There's lots of other stuff that sounds very cool, but there's also so much of it, and so many possibilities that I haven't processed and started planning them yet. Every time I try and think of something, something cool they're doing just hits me and I'm paralyzed between possible options--
The confirmation of casting heavy Eidolons is a very novel concept to me, and makes me think about finding a niche within Summoner to do something cool and less obvious, especially with Act Together throwing an extra action into the overall Summoner mix.
True Names and Ley Lines are both systems I can work into our setting and once I see how they actually work, could be fun to build into characters, they both sound like something my Intelligence-character maining self would enjoy.
Guns and Gears actually has me thinking if maybe the Vanguard Gunslinger could be a fun character, maybe with Cavalier for a real gun knight type deal-- this one is outside my usual purview but it sounds kind of epic to play around with.
Finally, flexible preperation being so wide is another interesting element, right now the only way to do it with the Occult list is actually through the Witch, so I'll look into that for something novel or maybe into a Druid to try out this "Fey Caller" style of play. I need to think carefully about building it, given the two spells per level element and see how the final text all shakes out.
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I have tons of ideas for both summoner and magus.
One is a kitsune summoner whose fey eidolon looks like herself. The two identical kitsunes are twins that play tricks on people, leaving them constantly guessing who is the real kitsune. In reality, the two foxes see themselves as the same person with a shared hive mind.
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I'm coming around the idea of playing an android magus with the soulforge archetype. My current character may retire soon for lore reasons and an android would have really strong ties to the campaign and the party. An artificial being that uses a mix of magic and technology with a weapon that gets stronger the more human it gets is just too appealing for some reason.
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I'm 100% making a Construct Summoner that has a magical puppet and controls it with strings of energy. The way the action economy of the Summoner works is too perfect for the concept for me not to make it!
Secrets of Magic has a bunch of rituals in it, right? My Strength of Thousands character is planning to be an Anadi Rogue with the Ritualist archetype, whose schtick is that while they're a virtuoso with magic when they have time to prepare, they can barely cast a spell in a pressure situation (like combat).
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My answer to all this is waiting on me getting the Mwangi book and seeing what the lore for Gnolls is.
Honestly I really want to start theory crafting a summoner, but I really want to see the evolutions first. I know you can really make some eidolons basically whatever you want within a category (especially something like beast eidolon, possibilities are endless) but I want to see what the mechanics of the class support before getting too married to an idea. The wait for this book (and guns and gears, but guns and gears I have a better idea of character concepts for it) is brutal.
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It's a little simple, but next time I'm not GMing, I want to be a blunderbuss-wielding sprite, riding shotgun in another barbarian PC's backpack, along with several other blunderbusses. When barbarian goes rage, things go boom.
As a GM I'm hyped for ley lines, rituals, and firearms to help flesh out my setting. I already have something like ley lines in place for plot purposes, the party doesn't know much about them and I'm excited to see how secrets of magic can help me develop them further and maybe add some mechanics too. Rituals are generally fun, and I'm hoping there are some revolvers (or the tools to come up with revolvers) to mix into my setting as well instead of the homebrew revolvers I've been using.
As a player, not sure what I'll jump onto first. Partly 'cause I don't know when I'll be a player next. Inventor looks really cool, and I like how magus and summoner are shaping up too. But I think I might go for a Flexible Casting or Runelord Wizard first instead depending on how those shake out. I definitely want to pick up one of the new shapeshifting spells at some point too, so maybe a druid instead. I'll zero in on something when my group is getting closer to swapping GMs, but there's plenty of options I'm looking forward to.
Honestly, it's hard for me to say until I see the mechanics. Some of them sound like a lot of fun, but I need to see what they actually look like before I make up my mind.
I'm going to test the summoner versus the druid with animal companion. See who wins more often and who does more damage combined.
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I'm going to test the summoner versus the druid with animal companion. See who wins more often and who does more damage combined.
If the eidolon scales without feats as far as to hit then comparing it to a feature that requires investment might not be the most apt.
I'm going to test the summoner versus the druid with animal companion. See who wins more often and who does more damage combined.If the eidolon scales without feats as far as to hit then comparing it to a feature that requires investment might not be the most apt.
I'd generally see "It is your defining class feature" as a fair amount of investment, really... and the eidolon is going to be soaking up feats too. Presumably, he's talking about comparing full builds, though, given the way that the eidolon soaks up so much of the summoner's effectiveness budget.
I'm going to test the summoner versus the druid with animal companion. See who wins more often and who does more damage combined.If the eidolon scales without feats as far as to hit then comparing it to a feature that requires investment might not be the most apt.
The druid may be too high a bar for the summoner to meet. Druids are very, very strong and would kill most other classes in single combat. That might be a bad comparison to pit the summoner against a 10 level caster with some of the best class feats in the game and all the other perks the druid gets.
I may test it against a martial class instead. The way the summoner was designed in the playtest it was more of a martial character than a caster. It will likely compete for a martial character spot in a group rather than a caster. The playtest designed summoner was incapable of competing with a full caster for effectiveness. It is capable of competing with most martials I think.
The druid may be too high a bar for the summoner to meet. Druids are very, very strong and would kill most other classes in single combat. That might be a bad comparison to pit the summoner against a 10 level caster with some of the best class feats in the game and all the other perks the druid gets.
I may test it against a martial class instead. The way the summoner was designed in the playtest it was more of a martial character than a caster. It will likely compete for a martial character spot in a group rather than a caster. The playtest designed summoner was incapable of competing with a full caster for effectiveness. It is capable of competing with most martials I think.
Are you saying that your experience is that full casters are overall more effective than martials? That's not the impression I'd gotten.
...or is it that you'd be testing them on different things?
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I hope Spellstrike works with ranged unarmed attacks in the final version.
I'd love to play a kitsune magus with spellstriking foxfires or a leshy shooting seeds that explode with magic.
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About comparing classes, like that, I think PvP (in the sense of builds using PC rules facing each other) is pretty pointless to compare how good or bad they are in combat. If you want to do it for funsies tho, Druid, and Bard (and probably most casters given enough levels) would destroy all the martial classes unless they start at melee range or the martial is ranged and has the ability to OHKO the caster.
The closest approximation of what we currently have is probably warpriests
Warpriest is still a full caster, I think they would compare better with martials with an spellcasting dedication.
I was already planning on trying "Laughs in Shadows" because of the implications for its teleportation and mobility prowess. But if there turns out to be a gunblade you can use with finesse- because being split between STR, INT, and DEX sounds painful- then I'll absolutely want to try a Starlit Span Magus who can dip and dive through melee, slinging and swinging spellstrikes at any range.
Of course, it depends on what Starlit Span can actually do and how it deals with reloading. But the idea itself sounds like a fun all-rounder concept.
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The druid may be too high a bar for the summoner to meet. Druids are very, very strong and would kill most other classes in single combat. That might be a bad comparison to pit the summoner against a 10 level caster with some of the best class feats in the game and all the other perks the druid gets.
I may test it against a martial class instead. The way the summoner was designed in the playtest it was more of a martial character than a caster. It will likely compete for a martial character spot in a group rather than a caster. The playtest designed summoner was incapable of competing with a full caster for effectiveness. It is capable of competing with most martials I think.
Are you saying that your experience is that full casters are overall more effective than martials? That's not the impression I'd gotten.
...or is it that you'd be testing them on different things?
Yes, full casters are extremely strong at higher level. Martials are at disadvantage against them. It's not as bad as PF1, but it's still like using a sword against a modern drone.
I think the summoner was designed more as a martial class than a caster.
1. They max at Master Casting like a martial taking a multiclass caster archetype.
2. The eidolon maxes at Master weapon proficiency like every martial save a fighter.
3. They have very limited casting ability like a multiclass caster.
4. The eidolon has a damage boosting cantrips like using ki strike or sneak attack.
A summoner plays far more like a martial than a caster. I think it would be unfair to have them compete against a druid with animal companion who can unleash up to 10th level spells with focus spells while wearing good armor likely while flying with a fully statted companion.
I want to see about where the summoner power level is and what niche it can play in a group. How much damage do they do? What kind of utility do they bring? Do they do anything as well or better than anyone else? What do they do that makes them standout? Is the combination on par with a focused class like a focused druid or focused fighter? That's what gets people to play and try a class if they can build it in a way that makes them feel like they're able to carry their weight in effectiveness using the abilities of the class.
The druid may be too high a bar for the summoner to meet. Druids are very, very strong and would kill most other classes in single combat. That might be a bad comparison to pit the summoner against a 10 level caster with some of the best class feats in the game and all the other perks the druid gets.
I may test it against a martial class instead. The way the summoner was designed in the playtest it was more of a martial character than a caster. It will likely compete for a martial character spot in a group rather than a caster. The playtest designed summoner was incapable of competing with a full caster for effectiveness. It is capable of competing with most martials I think.
Are you saying that your experience is that full casters are overall more effective than martials? That's not the impression I'd gotten.
...or is it that you'd be testing them on different things?
Yes, full casters are extremely strong at higher level. Martials are at disadvantage against them. It's not as bad as PF1, but it's still like using a sword against a modern drone.
I think the summoner was designed more as a martial class than a caster.
1. They max at Master Casting like a martial taking a multiclass caster archetype.
2. The eidolon maxes at Master weapon proficiency like every martial save a fighter.
3. They have very limited casting ability like a multiclass caster.
4. The eidolon has a damage boosting cantrips like using ki strike or sneak attack.
A summoner plays far more like a martial than a caster. I think it would be unfair to have them compete against a druid with animal companion who can unleash up to 10th level spells with focus spells while wearing good armor likely while flying with a fully statted companion.
I want to see about where the summoner power level is and what niche it can play in a group. How much damage do they do? What kind of utility do they bring? Do they do anything as well or better than anyone...
This is incorrect, partially because Summoner gets the same level of spells as the Druid does, they just lose their lower level slots as they gain their higher level ones ('wave' casting.) Also Martials are a fair bit more powerful than you're suggesting here at any level.
When the Druid is casting say, 8th level spells, so is the Summoner. They do have reduced proficiency relative to a full caster, though not by so much that their spells aren't worth using (its a 10% difference.)
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This is incorrect, partially because Summoner gets the same level of spells as the Druid does, they just lose their lower level slots as they gain their higher level ones ('wave' casting.) Also Martials are a fair bit more powerful than you're suggesting here at any level.
When the Druid is casting say, 8th level spells, so is the Summoner. They do have reduced proficiency relative to a full caster, though not by so much that their spells aren't worth using (its a 10% difference.)
4 of the same level spells versus the druid eventually having 28 and feats isn't comparable. The summoner is an extremely limited caster.
And Master Casting is very weak compared to Legendary. 10% in PF2 is a huge difference in capability.
Suffice it to say that I still believe a summoner is built to play more like a martial. Sustained casting is not their forte. Sending in their pet to do melee attacks is going to be their primary attack form with perhaps some decent nova ability.
And Master Casting is very weak compared to Legendary. 10% in PF2 is a huge difference in capability.
Worth noting that Legendary is just an endgame thing. The Summoner has the same casting proficiency for more levels than it doesn't.
Worth noting that Legendary is just an endgame thing. The Summoner has the same casting proficiency for more levels than it doesn't.
And Master Casting is very weak compared to Legendary. 10% in PF2 is a huge difference in capability.
Full casters get Expert at lvl 7 and Master at lvl 15, then Legendary 19.
The summoner gets Expert at 11 and Master at 19.
Then there is massive fewer slots. 4 top slots compared to 28 slots for a 3 spells per level caster and 37 spells for a 4 slot per caster caster.
It's not close. Not sure why people are trying to make it seem like the summoner will play anything like a full caster. It won't. It will play like a martial with a few spells cast with weaker ability.
It played weak in the play test and without modification it will play weak upon release.
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Worth noting that Legendary is just an endgame thing. The Summoner has the same casting proficiency for more levels than it doesn't.
And Master Casting is very weak compared to Legendary. 10% in PF2 is a huge difference in capability.Full casters get Expert at lvl 7 and Master at lvl 15, then Legendary 19.
The summoner gets Expert at 11 and Master at 19.
Then there is massive fewer slots. 4 top slots compared to 28 slots for a 3 spells per level caster and 37 spells for a 4 slot per caster caster.
It's not close. Not sure why people are trying to make it seem like the summoner will play anything a full caster. It won't. It will play like a martial with a few spells cast with weaker ability.
It was changed to 9/17 so for 14 out of 20 lvls they have the same spellcasting proficiency as full casters and 4 out of the 6 that they are not are lvl 15+
And with the new act together stuff like Action together (Spell + Strike) + Strike will be very common.