will we get something like ultimate campaign for 2e?

[belgrath9344]

I know we'll get kingdom building rules in the kingmaker 2e release. but what about stuff for commanding armies I know its probably not everyone cup of tea but the fact 1e had kingdom & army rules is really cool & I want to see the other half of that in 2e@

[Staffan Johansson]

I hope we will get something like Ultimate Campaign, though I'm more interested in more downtime stuff than in commanding armies. I strongly suspect that it won't be until we've had a few APs featuring subsystems like that, in order to get a stealth playtest of the rules.

[Unicore]

My guess is that they will want to wait and test out a couple more subsystems in APs, since that often works very much like a playtest for those kind of mechanics (kingdoms, organizations, businesses, etc), but I too would love a downtime focused book that really walks through making cool interactive cities for players to use as bases (like what has been done with Otari) which could fit in the same book I think.

[StarMartyr365]

I also would like a book like this. I'd like for it to cover things like starting player run organizations like guilds, businesses, etc. I've always wanted to play a game based around setting up merchant houses like the Medici and establishing trade routes than span continents.

The kingdom management rules coming in Kingmaker would be a great place to start for Game of Thrones type campaigns and I'd like to see them really lean into that!

[Albatoonoe]

UC was easily one of my favorite books for 1st edition. I do hope we see another book like it or at least more sub systems throughout.

[AnimatedPaper]

Originally posted this to a different thread, but it seems even more appropriate here:

Unicore wrote:

but it also seems like there is a reasonable demand, perhaps in another year or two, for another GM focused guide to awesome adventures in PF2 that really responds to the elements of PF2 that are unique, and thus challenging to some tables.

I’ve thought that a rulebook focused on exploration and downtime would make a lot of sense from several perspectives.

Including an entire chapter on Recall Knowledge and how to make it awesome and consistent. Ideally written by and for PFS people.

[Alchemic_Genius]

I sure hope we get an ultimate campaign book, and with how popular the gmg was, I don't doubt it'll come eventually.

Some stuff I'd really enjoy rules for are:

-an official guideline for making new weapons. I've reverse engineered the power balance well enough, but I'd definitely enjoy something a bit more official.

- some expansion/improvements on crafting. As it is, unless your game follows pfs logic and has earn income jobs almost always being below level, crafting is worse than just earning income. It's also really weird that I need to spend 4 days minimum to craft things like a fork or sling bullets (seriously, it's just melt metal, pour metal into mold, viola, sling bullets).

-I wouldn't mind a return of the downtime system from 1e to 2e. I enjoyed the mechanics for earning capitals; it was fun having my alchemist owning a little garden and tending it to produce materials for their adventuring items. With subsystems like Heists and Research, it also opens up the possibility of using your capitals for other stuff like "knowing a guy" by turning in social capital, coming across some information in your studies by spendingagic capital, etc.

-rules for hiring mercenaries, like buying the aid of a thief on your tomb raiding adventure if you need another trap guy, or the aid of a mage for your ritual. Hirelings stop being helpful really quick, and I know at the very least, my party tends to like hiring people to handle stuff like guarding their wagons when they go in the dungeon, etc.

-more vehicles

[Perpdepog]

Alchemic_Genius wrote:

-more vehicles

This one, at least, is going to be given to us in G&G, I believe. I couldn't point to a source, though.

[Alchemic_Genius]

Perpdepog wrote:

Alchemic_Genius wrote:

-more vehicles

This one, at least, is going to be given to us in G&G, I believe. I couldn't point to a source, though.

Probably, but still: more vehicles. Also ways to upgrade vehicles. My group loves vehicles, but not how easy they are to break after a few levels

[Perpdepog]

Yeah I was wondering about that as well. Sort of a biproduct of everything being on the level curve. Easiest solution would be to have an upgrade system, like you said. Armoring or something like that to provide more hit points and hardness as the vehicle goes up in level.

It'd be doubly nice because I suspect you could use a similar system to help building custom animated objects.

[Alchemic_Genius]

For the time being, I scale the vehicle up using the custom monster rules guidelines because the game features frequent use of ships and wagons. It works fine enough for the time being

[Ascalaphus]

Maybe we'll get something more GMG style and not quite UC style. And by that I mean a bit more focused on explaining how to dial them in to what your specific group wants. The UC systems were kinda all or nothing, but some groups might want a high abstraction kingdom simulator while others want to customize their kingdom down to the furnishings of every single building.

While I'm very into the whole hexploration and kingdom building, I also think the system needs to be designed to scale well. Often it starts with lots of choices on how to manage a small village (need enough choices to make it interesting). But then when you expand that village into a city and set up other towns, the scale of bookkeeping just increases and increases, to the point where the total amount of details you need do worry about becomes a bit of a drag. I think ideally, the amount of decisions you need to make should remain kinda constant, but growing your kingdom should open up some novel issues while perhaps streamlining some older issues.