Anyone have builds for real life fighting styles?


Conversions


Like boxing, wrestling, fencing, or karate, to name a few.

Yeah, I know there are some generic “one size fits all” things, like the Martial Artist Monk archetype, but I wanted more specific builds for real life fighting styles.


The best you are going to find in that regard is the martial artist monk or master of many styles monk... utilizing the various style feat chains to emulate different fighting techniques as well as some of the general unarmed strike feats...

If you are looking into the various weapon fighting styles... things get a lot more complicated... the system is not made to handle that level of complexity...


They've already made feat chains based off real world fighting styles:
Panther, Snake, Monkey, Dragon and Crane styles are all real world kung fu styles.

You can homebrew things if you want. Just do what I did: watch a f%#! ton of old kung fu movies, the weirder the better, and make techniques based on that.


Boxing- brawler or monk
Wrestling- brawler, monk or barbarian
Fencing- swashbuckler
Karate- brawler or monk

At this level of detail, I think it's more about how a character's actions are described than feats or abilities that emulate specific techniques or whatever.


Alright. Thank you all for the advice that this is basically too complicated. After seeing a fully functional Rocket Punch build, I thought maybe it wouldn’t be too unreasonable to try to make fully functional real life fighting styles in Pathfinder, but the best I’ll probably be able to do is generalizations.


I mean, what exactly are you looking to emulate?

I've studied martial arts and know a thing or two. But translated to a Pathfinder characte, it probably amounts to Stunning Fist and Improved Bullrush/Grapple.


Fully function real world styles would lose hard in a P1 game. You need them to be greatly improved fantasy versions to be of any use.


Quixote wrote:

I mean, what exactly are you looking to emulate?

I've studied martial arts and know a thing or two. But translated to a Pathfinder characte, it probably amounts to Stunning Fist and Improved Bullrush/Grapple.

I was hoping to get enough unique moves/attacks/abilities, that all fit under the same fighting style, that it would be obvious that it is that fighting style. Well, obvious if you know the fighting style, that is.

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

Fully function real world styles would lose hard in a P1 game. You need them to be greatly improved fantasy versions to be of any use.

I disagree with this. For starters, most of combat in Pathfinder is basic attacks. Real world fighting styles are literally designed to counter basic fighting. Yeah, there is the occasional unique fighting in Pathfinder, but it is never the norm. I’m also not counting supernatural/magical abilities, because if real humans had such power, they would obviously incorporate them into their martial arts, and since Pathfinder humans (usually) have them, they would be using them to enhance the real world fighting style.

Furthermore, what separates Pathfinder humans from real humans is that P humans are superhuman. No really, they have a 15 point buy if they have PC class levels, but only a 3 point buy if they have NPC class levels. So you likely aren’t actually comparing the fighting styles, you’re likely seeing that PCs are better fighters than humans, which is strictly due to superhuman capabilities, not fighting skill, and mistaking that for fighting skill.

Additionally, real world martial arts already have “improved fantasy” versions of themselves. They often have higher tiers of the final rank/belt, that are strictly theoretical, because real humans aren’t physically capable of performing those techniques due to not being strong/fast/etc enough. But as I just stated, Pathfinder humans are superhuman, so they would actually be able to perform these theoretical techniques.


Archery... seems pretty straitforward, right? Obviously ignoring Robin Hood BS like Manyshot...

English longbows were over 6' tall, and had a draw of over 80lbs. Trained longbowmen could volley fire at about 12-13 arrows per minute. Aiming heavy arrows at individual/moving targets took up to 8 seconds per shot... calvary advances so fast that retreat is much more likely than a second shot. And, knowing how fast calvary can advance, minimum engagement distances were usually 200 meters... extending out to 400m for volley fire.

Nothing in PF1 replicates the English longbowman, to my knowledge. Seems odd, considering it was the very definition of archery in warfare. Engagement distances are too far. Rate of fire is too slow. Not flashy enough to keep the players' attention, maybe?

Sobei Monks could make decent Mongol mounted archers... except the whole alignment thing.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Additionally, real world martial arts already have “improved fantasy” versions of themselves. They often have higher tiers of the final rank/belt, that are strictly theoretical, because real humans aren’t physically capable of performing those techniques due to not being strong/fast/etc enough.

What? I've never heard of this. What exactly are you referring to?

This sounds like a "my uncle's a black belt"/"I had to register my hands as lethal weapons"-type tall-tale, but if it's not, that would be awesome.

Where can I find more info on this?


Quixote wrote:
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Additionally, real world martial arts already have “improved fantasy” versions of themselves. They often have higher tiers of the final rank/belt, that are strictly theoretical, because real humans aren’t physically capable of performing those techniques due to not being strong/fast/etc enough.

What? I've never heard of this. What exactly are you referring to?

This sounds like a "my uncle's a black belt"/"I had to register my hands as lethal weapons"-type tall-tale, but if it's not, that would be awesome.

Where can I find more info on this?

It was years ago that I read about this. I found the information on Wikipedia, and it had sources, but I for the life of me can’t remember which martial arts page I was reading when I came across that. Sorry that wasn’t any help.


Blood and Fists for d20 Modern has Martial styles.


Take boxing. You fight with closed fists and don't try anything hugely fancy like a combat maneuver. You learn to take a hit on your arms but not to entirely negate or dodge them, for the most part. TWF and power attack might be appropriate, and toughness and/or stalwart. Later on perhaps jabbing style. Which seems like a long enough list of feats for a very straightforward style that Elephant in the Room feat tax reduction looks attractive.

Wrestling is well served by grappling feats, no need to layer anything more on top of those.

Fencing is the swashbuckler class, it's what that class is for. OK, maybe some magi with flamboyant arcana.

I know less about karate but stereotypically this is a monk.


I think the Phalanx Soldier Fighter archetype does relatively well portraying the real life role. I never built one to play as a character, but I have Phalanx Soldier NPC's that I try to play relatively close to their real life roles.

However, I rarely have a 256 man full phalanx ready to throw at a 4 man party... nor do I employ shield wall spear box tactics (fulcrum formations?) against the party. Because that $#!+ was so effective in real life, it doesn't even seem fun to use in the game. Might as well say "rocks fall, the party dies"...

It only takes 8 levels in the class to get the entire Mobile Stronghold feat chain, as well as Combat Reflexes/Bodyguard... at level 9 you get Shield Ally. And the build is done mechanically.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
It was years ago that I read about this. I found the information on Wikipedia, and it had sources, but I for the life of me can’t remember which martial arts page I was reading when I came across that.

Yeah, I dunno. I looked around and couldn't find anything.

Except that the whole concept of colored belts is actually a very recent addition to martial arts.
In most schools that used such a system, the black belt signified the beginning of advanced training. You hadn't mastered the style. You had become competent in it.
And once you were there, you could climb the ranks by adding degrees or dan to your belt.
My instructor had gotten his 7th dan when I left the school. He was pretty pumped about it.
His instructor had his 9th dan in one style and his...6th and 4th, I think? In two others.

The idea of purely theoretical levels, as I said before, seems on par with other urban legend-type stuff ("real katanas were only quenched in blood!", etc). Partly because I don't know how you'd design a set of qualifications that are impossible to reach without just getting silly.
It's like this one Batman comic I read. "Batman has a physical daily regime so intense that it would kill a normal person if they tried it" --ah, no. No one has ever done so many push-ups that they exploded. They would just...you know. Not do that many. They'd stop. Like, I can't lift 1,000lbs over my head. That doesn't mean that, if I did, my heart would burst. It means if I tried, I'd fail.

I think boxing and the various grappling styles are served by the existing rules pretty well. Fencing too, as much as I dislike the whole panache system and it's derivatives. The monk sort of mooshes all of the eastern styles together without any real distinction, but I don't know how you'd really go about it any other way.

And then there's the can of worms that is Brazilian jiu-jitsu...


There's actually some bits in competitive weight lifting/world's strongest man type contests where the guys would end up rupturing blood vessels other dangerous ailments from over exertion. Not sure if anyone ever ruptured a heart, but you certainly can break stuff if you go too heavy, hell tearing muscles/tendons in general is a significant risk in weight lifting even if that's more "cripple yourself" than lethal.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
There's actually some bits in competitive weight lifting/world's strongest man type contests where the guys would end up rupturing blood vessels other dangerous ailments from over exertion. Not sure if anyone ever ruptured a heart, but you certainly can break stuff if you go too heavy, hell tearing muscles/tendons in general is a significant risk in weight lifting even if that's more "cripple yourself" than lethal.

All true. Generally they get nose bleeds and/or rupture capillaries in their eyes.

I have heard of one strong man dying of an aortic section during or after a training session. I don't remember the exact specifics and how much was a congenital problem if any, the loads lifted(I am fairly certain he was not doing a super high load but a high volume training session) and or how much performance enhancing drugs had an effect on his heart.

As for PEDs they can make you prone to various injuries one by making your tendons thicker but not as strong and two by growing your muscles and strength faster and to levels higher than you would otherwise be able to. So the perfect scenario for rupturing a tendon etc.


avr wrote:
Take boxing. You fight with closed fists and don't try anything hugely fancy like a combat maneuver. You learn to take a hit on your arms but not to entirely negate or dodge them, for the most part. TWF and power attack might be appropriate, and toughness and/or stalwart. Later on perhaps jabbing style.

You defiantly try to avoid punches in boxing with dodging especially head movement. Generally one is always trying to circle away from your opponent's power hand. Other examples such as slipping a punch can put you in a great position to counter strike. Floyd Mayweather uses the shoulder roll and pull counter to take very few hits while out striking his opponents.

With good footwork you can confuse your opponent about range and there are some very sneaky things going on with regard to this. Boxing also has some very sneaky hand traps that most people miss.

I could go on but I only had that one difference of opinion and real life will never be fully capture in an rpg. I do otherwise agree with your feat selection regarding boxing. I would add in some defensive feats though. Not sure which ones. :)

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