If I was really keen on this concept as the base of my character, I would take both, and pick and choose from the abilities in both lists.
All the Rangers abilities trigger off "animal companion" and the Cavalier's off "mount". So as far as I can see this works.
You'd get two animal companions. One would be your mount and another a hound or bird of prey. All quite thematic.
The Ranger feat Side by Side is two strong for a Cavalier not to want it.
You're only allowed to have one animal companion at a time.
All the Rangers abilities trigger off "animal companion" and the Cavalier's off "mount".
You might be onto something here though. A lot of cavalier abilities specifically only interact with your mount, but Ranger abilities generally just interact with your animal companion with no caveats.
So stuff like side-by-side and arguably even the hunt prey benefits from the ranger's animal companion feat would work with your cavalier's mount.
You're only allowed to have one animal companion at a time.
You can go Beastmaster and then take Additional Companion for this.
You're only allowed to have one animal companion at a time.You can go Beastmaster and then take Additional Companion for this.
Yes unlike familiars, there is clearly no rule about only one animal companion. In fact Beastmaster says you can have up to 4 and gives you some general rules. Which is probably what your GM will use even if get multiple companions any other way.
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You're only allowed to have one animal companion at a time.You can go Beastmaster and then take Additional Companion for this.Yes unlike familiars, there is clearly no rule about only one animal companion. In fact Beastmaster says you can have up to 4 and gives you some general rules. Which is probably what your GM will use even if get multiple companions any other way.
An animal companion is a loyal comrade who follows your orders. Your animal companion has the minion trait, and it gains 2 actions during your turn if you use the Command an Animal action to command it; this is in place of the usual effects of Command an Animal, and you don’t need to attempt a Nature check. If your companion dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one animal companion at a time.
It does have a rule that says that you can only have one animal companion, the thing is that Beastmaster is the case of specific rules beats general.
It does have a rule that says that you can only have one animal companion, the thing is that Beastmaster is the case of specific rules beats general.
Fair enough.
But that doesn't stop the Ranger and Cavalier feats working together.
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Fortunately the prereq for the Ranger feats is "an animal companion" and not the Animal Companion feat specifically so you can qualify for them with the Cavalier archetype dedication.
Nothing says that a Ranger's animal companion cannot also be his mount when he takes the Cavalier Dedication.
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Not only is barding ridiculously expensive for an animal Companion (AC), costing many times more than yours (leather is 5x for an AC!), but barding/armor has Srength requirements that a bird won't meet. It's movement will be slowed, and depending on the type of bird raw weight will also be a concern.
Not only is barding ridiculously expensive for an animal Companion (AC), costing many times more than yours (leather is 5x for an AC!), but barding/armor has Strength requirements that a bird won't meet. It's movement will be slowed, and depending on the type of bird raw weight will also be a concern.
The bird will meet the Strength requirements for Light barding when you upgrade them at level 4 to a Mature Animal companion. But mostly it is just movement rate anyway. A bird with a fly speed of 60ft is still going to be 50ft even in heavy barding.
But bird will have a carrying capacity of 7 bulk anyway even at first level so it won't be encumbered just by barding. It should never be in heavy barding but it can handle that even if large from level 4.
What else does a bird carry?
The biggest advantage of taking the companion as a ranger is the ability to use hunter's edge. This seems fairly large. Is it worth just doing the cavalier dedication and losing that?
My real question is exactly what is in the Cavalier archetype that you really want?
The plus 1 circumstance bonus to attack while mounted?.
What +1 circumstance bonus to attack while mounted? I'm not finding a rule for that.
Cavalier's Charge Yes its got costs and limitations....
The biggest advantage of taking the companion as a ranger is the ability to use hunter's edge. This seems fairly large. Is it worth just doing the cavalier dedication and losing that?My real question is exactly what is in the Cavalier archetype that you really want?
The plus 1 circumstance bonus to attack while mounted?.Mainly the ability to have a rideable mount that's not a horse/camel at 2nd level (neither real makes sense for a goblin). And I also like the 2-level faster progression of upgrades.
But it doesn't help you at all with that. Cavalier doesn't remove any of the restrictions about riding and animal companion without the mount trait. It doesn't give the companion the mount trait.
You can ride a larger animal companion without it. It is already there in the rule.
Cavalier increases the size of your Animal Companion at low levels. So, it removes a restriction.
There's also the question of what happens once you get Mature as Mature is also increasing your size. It seems like a way to end up with a Large Animal Companion at level 4 that would be a Medium one for a Ranger.
There are, in fact, zero animal companions that start at Medium naturally that lack the mount trait; if you want your gobbo to ride a wolf before Mature Companion you need to get it with the cavalier dedication.
Cavalier provides some feats that let you protect your mount with a shield/your body, so I could imagine the archetype being valuable for that.
There are, in fact, zero animal companions that start at Medium naturally that lack the mount trait; if you want your gobbo to ride a wolf before Mature Companion you need to get it with the cavalier dedication.
OK there is the size problem of companions. Technically your size small goblin can ride the only other medium or large animal companion a monitor lizard from level 1, plus all the others with Cavalier. But even with Cavalier a size medium human only gets that one extra option the monitor lizard at level 2.
There is nothing too strong or powerful about using a wolf mount instead of a horse mount. The rules about what they can do cover this quite fine.
Reptile Rider and Rough Rider, don't help at all. If you are a medium ancestry you have to wait till you get the Cavalier second size increase that happens with level 4 Mature Animal Companion, or the 3rd feat to get the second size increase from Ranger/Druid/Beastmaster which is like level 8 or 10 and never arrives if you take the Nimble option. Nimble being required if you want your Animal companion to have a respectable AC.
Are mounts supposed to be stuck with the classics in PF2? I wouldn't have thought so. The flavour of Cavalier, just does not suit some characters.
Personally I find the restricted and enforced control of the size of animal companions by level to be a gross infringement on the characterisation in the game. If my character concept is mounted, I should be able to do that from level 1. With a good range of mundane non flying animals. Further the size of the mount should not change underneath me just because I level. In my home games I let any character that wanted an animal companion mount to get one of the right size at level 1.
Otherwise everyone just rides Corgis and totally gets around the problems here.
If you are a medium ancestry you have to wait till you get the Cavalier second size increase that happens with level 4 Mature Animal Companion, or the 3rd feat to get the second size increase from Ranger/Druid/Beastmaster which is like level 8 or 10 and never arrives if you take the Nimble option.
I don't know if it's true. Cavalier Dedication specifies that you need your mount to be one size category larger than you. The way it is labelled, it seems a requirement of the Cavalier Dedication feat, so before applying Mature. But I don't know how people handle that if the Cavalier changes Companion during their career.
Nimble being required if you want your Animal companion to have a respectable AC.
Nimble has 2 extra AC over Savage before level 14, 3 after. So, it's not negligeable, but you can deal with it. Especially considering that mounts are rarely attacked.
OK there is the size problem of companions. Technically your size small goblin can ride the only other medium or large animal companion a monitor lizard from level 1, plus all the others with Cavalier. But even with Cavalier a size medium human only gets that one extra option the monitor lizard at level 2.
OK this last part is not quite right the small Cavalier get a free bump for a small companion to medium so they can ride it.
The medium Cavalier initially does not get this as they can't ride a medium animal and their animal must be their mount . They can after taking a second feat Impressive Mount, then bump up the size twice to use the default small animal companions.
If you are a medium ancestry you have to wait till you get the Cavalier second size increase that happens with level 4 Mature Animal Companion, or the 3rd feat to get the second size increase from Ranger/Druid/Beastmaster which is like level 8 or 10 and never arrives if you take the Nimble option.I don't know if it's true. Cavalier Dedication specifies that you need your mount to be one size category larger than you. The way it is labelled, it seems a requirement of the Cavalier Dedication feat, so before applying Mature. But I don't know how people handle that if the Cavalier changes Companion during their career.
I'm not seeing anything that restricts the Cavalier to one specific animal, or even one type of animal. The normal rules for replacing animal companions seem to apply.
Nimble being required if you want your Animal companion to have a respectable AC.Nimble has 2 extra AC over Savage before level 14, 3 after. So, it's not negligeable, but you can deal with it. Especially considering that mounts are rarely attacked.
Just because you can use an animal only as a mount, does not mean it is always being used as a mount. Sometimes its just another combatant. Sometimes it is just being a normal animal companion.
It's AC is important. Otherwise why bother investing any extra feats in it at all. Just stop at one or two, then go do something else. Its valid to keep investing in your mount and expecting to get something out of it rather than a creature designed to attract critical hits and take up all of your parties healing resources.
I'm not seeing anything that restricts the Cavalier to one specific animal, or even one type of animal. The normal rules for replacing animal companions seem to apply.I don't know if it's true. Cavalier Dedication specifies that you need your mount to be one size category larger than you. The way it is labelled, it seems a requirement of the Cavalier Dedication feat, so before applying Mature. But I don't know how people handle that if the Cavalier changes Companion during their career.
Cavalier Dedication states: "You must choose an animal companion that's at least one size larger than you, but if the animal usually starts as Small, you can begin with a Medium version of that animal (changing no statistics other than its size)."
It seems to be before applying Mature growth. I can easily see a GM forbidding any animal companion that isn't larger than your character even when Young.Otherwise, you have a weird situation where you can't have some companions by levelling normally but if your companion dies you suddenly have an expanded list of potential companions.