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Hey all, I'm going to be making a Mesmerist for a way of the wicked game. I've never made a mesmerist before, and I've only recently really sat down and looked over the class. From my foray I've come away from it with a few different ideas.
We rolled stats, and I have-
We are using elephant feat tax (the original, not the newer PDF version)
18, 17, 16, 14, 10, 08
1- Strength based "striker" with a fall back of spells as needed. Making use of vital strike/painful stare for one hit wonders.
2- Dex based fighter, with a higher focus on spells?
3- Pure support/spells/skills. Possibly 1 level of rogue for trapfinding if needed and class skills.
Any help/thoughts are appreciated.
Cult Master Nagaji focused on Color Spray with your FCB and Mental Potency... by the time that doesn't work consistently, you have Leadership and followers and probably don't have to do too much for yourself anymore.
Or, be a Lizardfolk or Tengu Eyebiter for 7 levels, then go into the Evangelist prestige class with Fiendish Obedience Lamashtu. Take the Mutant Eye trait for flavor and fun. Start with 3 natural attacks, get another one from Lamashtu's 2nd Evangelist boon, and get another one from Spiritual Form at the 10th level of Evangelist.
You can get Trapfinding from a one level dip in Seeker Sorcerer... they call it Tinkering, but same thing. Might be a better dip for some Bloodline business, and a few extra spells.
Mesmerist is not amazing in melee, which makes the dex-based idea probably too weak to go with. Str based is probably doable, support & save-based attack spells is definitely doable.
In an evil game the mesmerist is a natural for the mind-controlling megalomaniac. Good choice.
Edit: that's dex-based melee that I doubt would work. Given the feat tax reduction archery might well work for you.
Or, be a Lizardfolk or Tengu Eyebiter for 7 levels, then go into the Evangelist prestige class with Fiendish Obedience Lamashtu.
In the campaign it is assumed that the PCs are willing to work with Asmodean cult and they are strongly encouraged to follow Asmodeus or other diabolic powers. It might be difficult to incorporate a demon worshipper to the party.
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So... It seems people are discouraging dex focused melee? If I did strength based... I was thinking something like the following-
Base ability scores:
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 08
Cha: 17
Feats would be the WotW option for becoming a vampire, so-
1- The Bitten (-2 con)
3- The Dying (-2 con but get toughness)
5- The Risen (now Con works off Cha, and I have toughness)
7- The Initiated
9- True vampire, gain the full vampire tempalte!
I was thinking either Human, for the bonus feat, or an aasimar(angel-kin) for +2 str/cha
Do you think this would work? early on I could simply keep to short ranged combat usually with the passable dex, throwing weapons and the like.
What archetypes would you suggest? and/or what spells?
I was looking at the Vexing Daredevil archetype, but I am unsure how many enemies will have immunity to mind-affecting effects in the AP. Since the one Bold stare ability allows me to effect creatures normally immune to those types of spells.
I was also looking at hate-monger
Has the GM given his ok that you can take the vampire feats from the beginning? Otherwise you have to wait until around book 3. If you can take the feats from the beginning, you could be a vampire by 7th level by being human, but surviving the beginning of the game with Con of 6 might be difficult.
Be warned, that depending on the GM, the vampire inability to enter buildings, unless invited by someone in authority, might pose tangible problems in this campaign.
I think most of the enemies will be vulnerable to mind effecting. There are some undead and construct type enemies but they are definitely not the majority.
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the feats are actually level locked IIRC,(the dying requiring 3rd level) and yea, I can take them.
We talked a bit, and he said depending on how it works out, I may be able to take something to allow me to ignore some of the negatives of being a vampire, namely that precise issue via a feat or something. I'm not entirely sure. Flavored as Asmodeous specifically helping out. And that negative won't come until level 9. Its when I need to specifically sleep every night in a coffin that I am worried about most.
Mesmerists do not have the spells to make this any easier on you... I would invest in a Ring of Sustenance, so you only have to sleep half as long. And a wand of Rope Trick?
I still would look into the Cult Master archetype... "free" Leadership is no joke...
A vexing daredevil wants more feats than the archetype alone gives them. With your general feats used up until level 11 or level 13 depending on the means of bypassing vamp negatives, vexing daredevil should be off your list for consideration.
Hate-monger does give you a bunch of extra spells known at the cost of tricks known (trading one sort of resource for another) and a single favored enemy in place of mental potency (but since you're not a ranger, practically nothing that works with favored enemy works for you). I'm not sure it's a great archetype but it's not obviously a problem for you.
On spells, spite is one you'll want along with another spell to load into it, maybe stricken heart to interrupt a full attack. At level 1 you get sleep or color spray of course. Some others to note:
1: assumed likeness, grease, heightened awareness, ill omen, silent image, vanish
2: anonymous interaction, enter image, focused scrutiny, glitterdust, mirror image, placebo effect, twilight haze
3: charm monster, conditional curse, glibness, horrific doubles (mirror image+!), node of blasting, scrying
There are a lot of good attack, social or sneaky mesmerist spells and this is far from a complete list. It does mostly lack useful buffs.
Honestly, the Nagaji Cult Master is a narural fit to the role... smash with Color Spray literally until your FCB and Mental Potency run out of usefulness... and design your cohort to address all of your shortcomings... a Witchguard Ranger, maybe? Or a Bard?
The mesmerist dip gives +2 will save DC for a swift action (~ +2 feats), costs half a spell level (ouch; also -1/2 save DC ~ -1/2 feat), half an exploit (-1/2 feat), a trait on magical knack (I assume; -1/2 feat), reduces the number of spell slots by 1 level (but adds a couple of 1st level slots) and slightly improves saves and skills. It's probably a poor bargain, the exceptions being 1: if you were going to throw multiple feats into increasing save DC anyway and you want to specialise even further than that, or 2: there are other people in the party using will save spells and you can provide a benefit to them as well.
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so I was thinking this might be a good game to try out
What with the whole evil undermining of a nation vibe. I would ask if anyone has played/GM/read the players guide if the whole "subterfuge" aspect continues through most of the AP, or if it goes pink mohawk rather early on.
early on being, at level 7 subterfuge is less of an issue.
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In all books it is good idea to be able to hold your own on social encounters. Also try to make friends, you don't need to kill everyone, there are lots of NPCs that you might be able to turn to the dark side, or at least join your team.
Subterfuge is important in the first book, but wanes as you grow more powerful. It is useful through out the AP but not as critical.
You could start taking levels in the Enchanting Courtesan in book 2. You would need to play a bit differently and more proactively than the "expected" play style of the book to really benefit from the PRC abilities. In book 3 you will benefit from the skill bonuses in the beginning but the rest of the book has lot, and I mean lot, of straight up fights. Being skilled in diplomacy and bluff is very useful throughout the AP. Poison use is usually not very useful. Sure, you could poison some enemy soldiers but so what.
There are some major NPCs that the courtesan could be really useful against in the later books but this requires a bit of outside the box thinking that at least my players did not think to try. In the last book the PRC abilities can be very useful.
The PRC sounds really thematic but not very powerful.
As a side note, there is a lot of downtime in the AP as written, so Item creation feats are really, really useful. As written the AP is sometimes a bit stingy on loot. I mean, non-masterwork battle axes and banded mail on level 12 cavaliers? Especially if you have a lot of NPCs on your team, you will need to equip them too.
Hint, the ogre in the jail is the best NPC ever (provided your GM plays him like he should), try to save him, you won't regret it.
Oh, make sure someone takes a rank in disable device in the beginning. My players did not, and it made the start of the adventure extra hard for them.
I'll be a little heterodox here - I think #2 can work, though take that with the caveats that I haven't actually had a chance to try such a build in actual play, and I don't know anything specific about Way of the Wicked.
The basic idea behind the builds I've been toying with is that if most of your attacks are touch attacks, preferably against enemies denied their Dex bonus, you should be able to reliably get off multiple applications of full damage Painful Stares as they become available through Manifold Stare. Normally the Mesmerist doesn't have many ways to make touch attacks, but the Fey Trickster and Material Manipulator archetypes get access to spells that can help fix that.
For the Fey Trickster, the Whip of Spiders spell moves from being underwhelming but flavorful to a viable attack - you wield it as a whip, meaning you can take multiple attacks if otherwise able to, but resolve attacks as touch attacks. I'm not sure the progressions to this spell are worth it though.
For the Material Manipulator the early game selection is a little more limited, but you get access to Coin Shot, Hellmouth Lash (if you're a tiefling or can convince your GM), Shadow Conjuration -> (Whip of Spiders, River Whip, Fiery Shuriken), Shadow Evocation -> (Ghost Whip), and Dimensional Blade spells.
Lots of whip spells in those lists, and you just happen to be proficient in Whips as a Mesmerist. Elephant in the Room makes whips viable for dex builds right off the bat by giving you free access to Weapon Finesse, but it might still be worth going a little down the whip combat feat lines and grabbing Whip Mastery or Weapon Proficiency (Scorpion Whip) and Combat Reflexes.
The Two-World Magic trait can be taken no matter what archetype you end up with, and gets you access to a ranged touch attack cantrip like Acid Splash or Ray of Frost.
VMC Magus could also be an option, as it gives you access much needed to-hit bonuses through Arcane Pool and can open the option for taking the Arcane Strike arcana for more touch attacks. Spellstrike is also very nifty, though this does cost half your feats.
Ask your GM for Painful Stare clarifications though - the ability is really very poorly defined. Depending on the interpretation of "attack that ... hits", and I'll admit I prefer to interpret that statement in the most expansive way myself, you might open up many more options for triggering Painful Stare.
Perturbing Stare can be a good option for denying Dex bonus, and the party rogue, if there is one, will thank you.
Finally, for the last of my off the top of my head advice, I see the Reflexive Trick and Spell Trick feats as almost essential for any Mesmerist build. Reflexive Trick gets around the "any given person can only have one trick implanted at a time" limitation for personal trick use, making using your own tricks much more viable, and Spell Trick is essentially the best version of Contingency in the game.