Hello there,
I've been playing 1E for a year now and will likely tap into 2E in the near future. So far I have been enjoying the first edition greatly and after going through all the changes in 2E, I really start to look forward to it.
However, I do hope they developers are willed to add more modern fantasy races in the future. Coming from World of Warcraft background, I really would love to see Paizo's official take on Tauren, Worgen and, of course, the Pandaren with some twists added to them. Perhaps we could see a sub-race for the catfolk too, Lions, Tigers and so on.
While I wouldn't mind seeing those ancestries come to PF2 (and have made a Minotaur homebrew myself) I'm far more interested in seeing Paizo working on wholly original ancestries and heritages like fleshwarps and the three new ones coming with the Mwangi Expanse book over the ones you presented. I have a soft spot for animal people, but I think Beastkin will fill that slot for me for the more niche options, even if it's more werecreature than proper animalfolk.
Some of those might be under intellectual property of WoW, though a minotaur could do for tauren.
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I am astoundingly bored of "humanoid versions of different animals". Tauren, Worgen, and Pandaren are meh. I'm a big fan of Draenei, though, and would welcome some kind of divine touched alien race.
On the topic of animal ancestries though, I do hope we get one that's an awakened animal, even if it's just a single type like Starfinder's Uplifted Bear.
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I would very much love to see well-done versions of the various Warcraft Races and/or Ancestries. I actually got into WoW because of the old WoW Campaign Setting book that was made for D&D 3e.
I think the Blizzard take on Trolls, Tauren, and Draenei would be especially interesting to see if only because they're given such unique cultures and lore in the setting. A good humanoid and non-innately evil Troll especially would be awesome.
Worgen is covered by "Beastkin" heritage.
I wouldn't mind seeing a troll or Minotaur/Tauren ancestry. I've homebrewed my own, as well as a Jaglar ancestry covering both Pandaren and Furbolgs, but I'd like to see their mechanical takes on it.
My big want is the Forsaken. I want to see it as a human-only heritage. Dhampir gets me close, but not close enough...
I am astoundingly bored of "humanoid versions of different animals". Tauren, Worgen, and Pandaren are meh. I'm a big fan of Draenei, though, and would welcome some kind of divine touched alien race.
I'd love to see a combined Eredar ancestry with Draenei, Lightforged, Manaari, and Broken all as heritages.
Probably STR/CHA with Dex as their Flaw. 8hp. 25' speed. Darkvision. The Draenei heritage getting Negative energy resistance and the ability to cast Know Direction as an innate Occult cantrip.
Not that I've thought about it a lot or anything...
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Honestly Tauren, Worgen, and Pandarians can all be flavored as various versions of beastkin. And I'm sure plenty of GMs will allow you to flavor your catfolk as a tiger/lion folk person, or also just use Beastkin.
Essentially if your request boils down to "I want more animal people" I think we've got a solid umbrella to put them under already.
Designer
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I would very much love to see well-done versions of the various Warcraft Races and/or Ancestries. I actually got into WoW because of the old WoW Campaign Setting book that was made for D&D 3e.
The ones from Sword & Sorcery? I loved those books! Still have a few of them. The WoW warrior class from that campaign setting was my favorite take on the fighter for quite awhile, and I always liked how spellcasting was advanced based on tradition and not class so you could do things like multiclass druid/shaman or warlock/mage and end up with a mix of features from both without stunting your spellcasting.
Honestly Tauren, Worgen, and Pandarians can all be flavored as various versions of beastkin. And I'm sure plenty of GMs will allow you to flavor your catfolk as a tiger/lion folk person, or also just use Beastkin.
Essentially if your request boils down to "I want more animal people" I think we've got a solid umbrella to put them under already.
Er...no. Beastkin's big deal is that they can change shape. While that adequately covers Worgen, the others need something else.
Edit: and yes, I understand that just because you have an ability doesn't mean you have to use it, but what exactly would be the point of being a beastkin that never used your defining ability?
Reflavoring would probably work better, but might as well dream big.
I am astoundingly bored of "humanoid versions of different animals". Tauren, Worgen, and Pandaren are meh. I'm a big fan of Draenei, though, and would welcome some kind of divine touched alien race.
Well, I'm in a different boat. Way too bored by hourglass female blond and blue-eyed elves and humans in different sizes and shapes (dwarves, gnomes, ...). The Draenei are guilty of this as well sans the skin color, unfortunately.
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I'm waiting on a psi-themed ancestry to give me my gith proxy
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Er...no. Beastkin's big deal is that they can change shape. While that adequately covers Worgen, the others need something else.
Edit: and yes, I understand that just because you have an ability doesn't mean you have to use it, but what exactly would be the point of being a beastkin that never used your defining ability?
Reflavoring would probably work better, but might as well dream big.
You know what, that's fair.
Although I'd prefer a single umbrella race to cover all animal-people rather than them having to print a whole series of new races for every individual flavor of animal.
Maybe they do it as it's own book and print a bunch of races, but this is one of those things where I'm super fond of the way Were-animals were implemented in PF2. It was so streamlined that you can literally make a were-anything in minutes, because they unified the were rules. If they did something similar for Animal People TM I'd be pleased, but if I found out an entire splat book was dedicated to 15 different flavors of Animal People TM I probably would give it a hard pass.
and humans in different sizes and shapes (dwarves, gnomes, ...).That's exactly what I wa... hey, what?
Was referring to WoW.
It's one of the bigger criticism the games faces these days, if you're excluding the current expansion woes and the Horde-faction bias/balance from the developers. The Alliance lacks a greater diversity when it comes to their playable races and the story writers haven't done their best to represent them as well.
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Although I'd prefer a single umbrella race to cover all animal-people rather than them having to print a whole series of new races for every individual flavor of animal.
Same. I'm actually considering trying to homebrew such an ancestry for my own games.
Though I wouldn't mind a few of the "human from the waist up" races such as centaurs, lamia, and merpeople.
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I am astoundingly bored of "humanoid versions of different animals". Tauren, Worgen, and Pandaren are meh. I'm a big fan of Draenei, though, and would welcome some kind of divine touched alien race.
As an aside, this resonates a lot for me. I almost never play any race but human because I feel like it's a disservice because almost everything is played at a point where it's a rubber forehead alien.
(Many) People pick a race because of specific options available whether it be stat bonuses or feats and then role play in such a way that it's hard to discern whether it's just a weird human or something not actually human.
And it's hard...because we're human, and everything we can imagine is limited by our own perspective. But I think I'm at a point where I honestly prefer games that don't have alternate races and instead you just have many different human cultures.
At least it's less jarring to me that what are supposed to be these alien elves seem so disturbingly human.
Worgen is covered by "Beastkin" heritage.
I wouldn't mind seeing a troll or Minotaur/Tauren ancestry. I've homebrewed my own, as well as a Jaglar ancestry covering both Pandaren and Furbolgs, but I'd like to see their mechanical takes on it.
My big want is the Forsaken. I want to see it as a human-only heritage. Dhampir gets me close, but not close enough...
I am astoundingly bored of "humanoid versions of different animals". Tauren, Worgen, and Pandaren are meh. I'm a big fan of Draenei, though, and would welcome some kind of divine touched alien race.I'd love to see a combined Eredar ancestry with Draenei, Lightforged, Manaari, and Broken all as heritages.
Probably STR/CHA with Dex as their Flaw. 8hp. 25' speed. Darkvision. The Draenei heritage getting Negative energy resistance and the ability to cast Know Direction as an innate Occult cantrip.
Not that I've thought about it a lot or anything...
Another way to play with the "reanimated corpse" PC idea is to go with a Fleshwarp with the Created heritage.
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As someone who dms for a bunch of furries, I like animal people races since it eases up how much homebrew I have to cook up.
Imo, it's probs best though to make beast races "generic" members of a genus (like how shoony is dog people, catfolk are, well, cats, etc) and get the flavor of specific species via heritage amd feat options. Theres not much of a need for seperate jaguar or lion folk when we can just make catfolk feats that give you lio or jaguar powers. This has been paizo's approach, and I really like it. I've seen like two or three lizardfolk, and each was based on a lizard from a totally different biome and it was amazing.
Personally for me, I favor choices that lean torward supernatural/mythological type stuff, or other unusual optiona like sprite, android, fleshwarp, planestouched, kitsune, etc. I would love to see psychic themed heritage and/or ancestries
Although I'd prefer a single umbrella race to cover all animal-people rather than them having to print a whole series of new races for every individual flavor of animal.
Now that I can definitely see. We have Ratfolk, Catfolk, Lizardfolk, Tengu, Shoonies, Kitsune, and Beastkin, and will almost certainly get a Snake-folk of some kind. Oh, and Gnolls and Anadi. A general "Hybrid form" ancestry to cover the rest of the miscellaneous creatures would probably be best going forward, if for some reason you can't reflavor one of the current options.
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That said, a technical question, I haven't been able to find "Bull" as a statted creature in any Bestiary, or as an animal companion...or at all. Is it still an animal that can be chosen as a Beastkin?
I think you can choose any animal for Beastkin. The only feat I think directly relies on the innate animal would be Animal Shape, and Animal Form fortunately lists "Bull" as one of the options. Odd we don't at least have an aurox or cow stat block yet.
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We’ve gotten androids, plant people, mutants, revenants, kobolds, geniekin, orcs, lizardfolk, and kitsune... not to mention that gnolls, “bone-feathered” people, and jumping spider shapeshifters.
You can have specific wants, but it’s not like we’re starved for interesting Ancestry options.
We’ve gotten androids, plant people, mutants, revenants, kobolds, geniekin, orcs, lizardfolk, and kitsune... not to mention that gnolls, “bone-feathered” people, and jumping spider shapeshifters.
You can have specific wants, but it’s not like we’re starved for interesting Ancestry options.
Well, obviously bears, bulls and turtles are missing. Subrace for predator cats.
Minotaur,
Centaur,
Snake People/Pantathian/Yuanti in some form
Gnoll
Duergar and Drow would be nice too but you can work around them with other dwarves and elves.
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It sounds like you're really looking for an Azeroth campaign setting. Until we get something akin to the Sword and Sorcery book mentioned upthread, it's not too difficult to homebrew, especially with beastkin.
I wouldn't hold out hope that we'll see Paizo tackling the IPs of other companies, especially when those ancestries seem to be represented in Golarion through the beastkin heritage. (Unless Golarion does have an island of panda people that I've missed up until now)
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Well, obviously bears, bulls and turtles are missing. Subrace for predator cats.We’ve gotten androids, plant people, mutants, revenants, kobolds, geniekin, orcs, lizardfolk, and kitsune... not to mention that gnolls, “bone-feathered” people, and jumping spider shapeshifters.
You can have specific wants, but it’s not like we’re starved for interesting Ancestry options.
We do actually have a Hunting Catfolk heritage, which is probably what I would use for most big cats, with the rest being covered by Jungle Catfolk.
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Although I must say the Trolls of Azeroth are absolutely unique and unseen anywhere else.It sounds like you're really looking for an Azeroth campaign setting. Until we get something akin to the Sword and Sorcery book mentioned upthread, it's not too difficult to homebrew, especially with beastkin.
I wouldn't hold out hope that we'll see Paizo tackling the IPs of other companies, especially when those ancestries seem to be represented in Golarion through the beastkin heritage. (Unless Golarion does have an island of panda people that I've missed up until now)
Right, Golarion doesn't have Azerothian trolls and all of their background, history, and variety. If any ancestry screams to get the PF2 treatment of heritages, ancestry feats, and weapons, it would absolutely be the Azerothian trolls. But that seems like a wholly different product owned by another company. As it stands, a fun homebrew project for someone, but Golarion already has trolls and they're vastly different.
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Looking from the Pathfinder books, catfolk by default already include the big cats.
From the Ancestry Guide the ethnicities.
Askedhaki
They tend to have striped hair or fur, view long fangs as an attractive sign of strength typically have the clawed or flexible catfolk heritage and often take the Saber Teeth ancestry feat.
Based on tigers and the fangs stuff even alludes sabertooth tigers.
Mitzenki
They often appear taller and brawnier than most other catfolk, and they have either striped or spotted fur that ranges from white to lightly colored, overwhelmingly have the winter catfolk heritage.
Based on Snow Leopards.
Shemtej
Male shemtej catfolk are known for growing full, leonine manes, often have the nine lives or liminal catfolk heritage.
Based on lions
Guarrxil
The black-spotted and from southern Arcadia.
Based on Jaguar.
What I would like is either more focus on the Core races (some of the uncommon & rare ancestries / heritages have about as much options as the Core ones), or for Paizo to just steer clear of the classic D&D core race (like they did for Starfinder).
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What about Warcraft-inspired races is something you're looking for? Is it the history, the aesthetic, the powers? While Paizo hasn't had problems with creating new ancestries, they're usually expanding in areas already loosely defined. Golarion has been around for awhile and has a fairly well-established history, much like Azeroth. "Golarion ancestry, but with a coat of Azerothian paint" just runs into problems from what I see. Cosmetically, it's something that can be handled by players ("I'm playing a panda-beastkin monk."), history is asking for the creation of something from whole cloth that wasn't there ("So back when my father watched over the Well of Eternity before the fall of the Highbourne..."), and the powers is something that we seem to be getting (I mean we just got a book that let you roleplay as any animal form, a horrific mutation, an android, or genie).
I'm not saying that wanting these things isn't understandable, but more why? Golarion has a very rich history and one that is less marred by years of retcons (not that it's entirely free of them), making it a bit easier to skim through for analogs that you're looking for.
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Right, Golarion doesn't have Azerothian trolls and all of their background, history, and variety. If any ancestry screams to get the PF2 treatment of heritages, ancestry feats, and weapons, it would absolutely be the Azerothian trolls. But that seems like a wholly different product owned by another company. As it stands, a fun homebrew project for someone, but Golarion already has trolls and they're vastly different.Although I must say the Trolls of Azeroth are absolutely unique and unseen anywhere else.It sounds like you're really looking for an Azeroth campaign setting. Until we get something akin to the Sword and Sorcery book mentioned upthread, it's not too difficult to homebrew, especially with beastkin.
I wouldn't hold out hope that we'll see Paizo tackling the IPs of other companies, especially when those ancestries seem to be represented in Golarion through the beastkin heritage. (Unless Golarion does have an island of panda people that I've missed up until now)
I got decent mileage out of using Elf heritages on the below Troll chassis.
8hp, 25' speed, Con + Free boost.
Regeneration You have resistance to persistent bleed damage equal to half your level (minimum 1). In addition, your flat check to remove persistent bleed damage is DC 10 instead of DC 15, which is reduced to DC 5 if another creature uses a particularly appropriate action to help.
I have various "Loa" feats, but I want to revise them before posting.
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Right, Golarion doesn't have Azerothian trolls and all of their background, history, and variety. If any ancestry screams to get the PF2 treatment of heritages, ancestry feats, and weapons, it would absolutely be the Azerothian trolls. But that seems like a wholly different product owned by another company. As it stands, a fun homebrew project for someone, but Golarion already has trolls and they're vastly different.Although I must say the Trolls of Azeroth are absolutely unique and unseen anywhere else.It sounds like you're really looking for an Azeroth campaign setting. Until we get something akin to the Sword and Sorcery book mentioned upthread, it's not too difficult to homebrew, especially with beastkin.
I wouldn't hold out hope that we'll see Paizo tackling the IPs of other companies, especially when those ancestries seem to be represented in Golarion through the beastkin heritage. (Unless Golarion does have an island of panda people that I've missed up until now)
I got decent mileage out of using Elf heritages on the below Troll chassis.
8hp, 25' speed, Con + Free boost.
Regeneration You have resistance to persistent bleed damage equal to half your level (minimum 1). In addition, your flat check to remove persistent bleed damage is DC 10 instead of DC 15, which is reduced to DC 5 if another creature uses a particularly appropriate action to help.I have various "Loa" feats, but I want to revise them before posting.
If/when you toss this in the Homebrew forums, I'd love to check it out. It sounds like it'd be a lot of fun to work on and tinker with. Maybe some fun stuff to get Amani trolls the "Returning Throwing Weapon" Stance with any class chassis.
Minotaur,
Centaur,
Snake People/Pantathian/Yuanti in some form
GnollDuergar and Drow would be nice too but you can work around them with other dwarves and elves.
Gnolls are coming in the Mwangi book in two months, we’re probably getting the Nagaji (snake people) back when we get a Tian Xia book for 2e, and while we haven’t heard anything on minotaurs, there’s a ton of ways to get a natural Horn attack.
I wouldn’t expect centaurs, due to Size issues; I can’t see Paizo following 5e’s lead and making them Medium.
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If you’re looking for the aesthetic and cultural trappings of Warcraft Trolls, you’re probably out of luck, as they’re... basically just a mountain of racist tropes piled on top of each other. They’re very much “a mishmash of what white pop culture thinks West African and Afro-Caribbean people and faiths are” thrown together.
The upcoming Mwangi Expanse book should be approaching similar inspirations from a more considered place; it’s the 2e book I’m most excited about, and it’s adding a ton of great new ancestries.
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Right, you're looking to play in an Azerothian game. You're asking for aesthetics which is very easy to replicate in game. Heck, if I had a player looking for that, I'd point them directly to the orc demon hunters of the Mwangi Expanse: dedicated hunters of the mysterious jungles, festooned with warding tattoos and masks. Give them some spears or throwing axes and they're good to go. Heck, get Raging Hurler as a barbarian and you've got the troll berserker in everything but name. A tusked, tattoo'd, mohawked barbarian stalking the jungles and throwing axes.
It's something more with how you and your group approach the game. If you're creating an idea within the setting you're using or adapting an outside idea to fit into the setting. Taking an outside idea (like a full, no-changes Amani troll) and fitting it into a setting where it has no context is tricky. Trickier still to look for two companies to come together to make that happen.
As a side note, we have two sources of ancestry content: the Core line and the Lost Omens line. I'll be surprised if we see shake-ups in the Core line and Lost Omens is very specifically Golarion-centric.
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Finally, my knowledge of Azeroth and Golarion did a good thing instead of getting me kicked out of that ballroom dancing course that one time.
I wouldn’t expect centaurs, due to Size issues; I can’t see Paizo following 5e’s lead and making them Medium.
Size is not so much a problem. I mean we have a tiny race now. For better of worse there is little to no mechanical difference - a Sprite with a Tiny longbow is not less effective than a human with a longbow barring the initial stat modifier which you can buy off with voluntary flaws.
Reach is not required or forced as part of size. Bulk and encumberance but that is not much.
The only real issue would be that physically larger creatures, and assumptions about where they can go in modules.
The bottom line is being larger is a disadvantage.
I wouldn’t expect centaurs, due to Size issues; I can’t see Paizo following 5e’s lead and making them Medium.Size is not so much a problem. I mean we have a tiny race now. For better of worse there is little to no mechanical difference - a Sprite with a Tiny longbow is not less effective than a human with a longbow barring the initial stat modifier which you can buy off with voluntary flaws.
Reach is not required or forced as part of size. Bulk and encumberance but that is not much.
The only real issue would be that physically larger creatures, and assumptions about where they can go in modules.
The bottom line is being larger is a disadvantage.
Also; the ladder problem.
The only real issue would be that physically larger creatures, and assumptions about where they can go in modules.
The bottom line is being larger is a disadvantage.
It's pretty much all about design assumptions when modules are being written. But Sprites did get the Rare tag. I don't think it's impossible for us to see a Large ancestry, but I would imagine that it comes with GM buy-in and numerous caveats if we ever do.
Just bear in mind they released the Superstition Instinct for the Barbarian which causes lots of problems for modules and parties.
Also ponies are size medium. Centaurs don't have to be large.
Just bear in mind they released the Superstition Instinct for the Barbarian which causes lots of problems for modules and parties.
Also ponies are size medium. Centaurs don't have to be large.
I don’t think most people imagine their centaurs pony-sized :p