What happens when you run out of languages?

[KaiBlob1]

So lets say an Orc wizard from Taldor has 18 intelligence (+4) at 1st level. He therefore speaks Common and Orcish, plus 4 languages from the list provided with the orc ancestry:

APG wrote:

Additional Languages equal to your Intelligence modifier (if it’s positive). Choose from Goblin, Jotun, Terran, Undercommon, and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).

So he chooses goblin, Jotun, Terran, and undercommon. He's from Taldore, so he doesn't have any regional languages available to him. What does he do at level 10 when he hits +5 intelligence and is supposed to learn a new language?

[Ravingdork]

KaiBlob1 wrote:

So lets say an Orc wizard from Taldor has 18 intelligence (+4) at 1st level. He therefore speaks Common and Orcish, plus 4 languages from the list provided with the orc ancestry:

APG wrote:

Additional Languages equal to your Intelligence modifier (if it’s positive). Choose from Goblin, Jotun, Terran, Undercommon, and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).

So he chooses goblin, Jotun, Terran, and undercommon. He's from Taldore, so he doesn't have any regional languages available to him. What does he do at level 10 when he hits +5 intelligence and is supposed to learn a new language?

He goes to a library or other knowledge-based institution, grabs a book about a language nit otherwise available to him, then it becomes available to him. Alternatively, seek out a tutor who knows the desired language to get access.

(In other words, talk to your GM about ways to expand your list of available languages when wanting to play a linguist.)

[Quentin Coldwater]

The additional languages only count for you first level. After that, you can choose any language you want.

[FowlJ]

All characters have access to all common languages, in addition to any others from their region or that they can otherwise access.

So according to AoN, that's Androffan, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, Goblin, Halfling and Sylvan that this character can pick from, in addition to Jotun, Undercommon, and Terran.

[Nicolas Paradise]

FowlJ wrote:

All characters have access to all common languages, in addition to any others from their region or that they can otherwise access.

So according to AoN, that's Androffan, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, Goblin, Halfling and Sylvan that this character can pick from, in addition to Jotun, Undercommon, and Terran.

Androffan being common feels weird. Especially considering the only 'native' speakers are Androids which are a Rare ancestry.

[Perpdepog]

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

FowlJ wrote:

All characters have access to all common languages, in addition to any others from their region or that they can otherwise access.

So according to AoN, that's Androffan, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, Goblin, Halfling and Sylvan that this character can pick from, in addition to Jotun, Undercommon, and Terran.

Androffan being common feels weird. Especially considering the only 'native' speakers are Androids which are a Rare ancestry.

My guess is it was a goof or misprint somewhere along the line.

And looking at the page, and the Ancestry Guide, it looks like the language was just placed in as an afterthought and not elaborated upon so it looks common even though it should be uncommon.

Also curious there aren't any rare languages.

[KaiBlob1]

Ravingdork wrote:

He goes to a library or other knowledge-based institution, grabs a book about a language nit otherwise available to him, then it becomes available to him. Alternatively, seek out a tutor who knows the desired language to get access.

(In other words, talk to your GM about ways to expand your list of available languages when wanting to play a linguist.)

You're supposed to just automatically gain a language when you increase your intelligence modifier though, it's not something that should require you to seek out a tutor or library. And its not about wanting to play a linguist, its about playing a wizard who naturally has high intelligence and gains these languages automatically.

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

The additional languages only count for you first level. After that, you can choose any language you want.

FowlJ wrote:

All characters have access to all common languages, in addition to any others from their region or that they can otherwise access.

Not sure where these two ideas come from, the CRB says:

CRB wrote:

Having a positive Intelligence modifier grants a number of additional languages equal to your Intelligence modifier. You can choose these languages from the list presented in your character’s ancestry entry and from those available from your region or ethnicity. Ask your GM if there’s a language you want to select that isn’t on these lists. If your Intelligence changes later on, you adjust your number of languages accordingly.

In the end it seems like RavingDork is probably right that you should just come up with a reason why you know a certain language and propose it to your GM, but I still feel like that's kind of an unsatisfying answer. I would also wonder how that works in PFS, where I believe the GM has less say in these kinds of things.

[FowlJ]

Beyond the fact that common options are generally available to anyone unless they have additional requirements, the description of common languages is:

Quote:

Languages that are common are regularly encountered in most places, even among those who aren't native speakers.

'Regularly encountered in most places' is pretty much the exact definition of 'prevalent', and 'languages prevalent in your region' is what the ancestry entry says are available to you.

[Castilliano]

There's also a certain amount of off-screen training and research going on with your PC. So yes, they are looking at books and talking with tutors (speakers of the target language in this case) as they level up.
There's a bit of handwaving going on when PCs are isolated for long periods of time, though I could see a GM operating differently then (hopefully with lots of forewarning to those playing Wizards (et al)).

---

I disagree that "regularly encountered" means "prevalent", but also think that's secondary (or less) to whether your PC can learn a language due to Int increase. And how prevailing does a language have to be? I'd rather not rely on semantics when the gist is your background automatically gives you access to some based on Ancestry and more based on region. The latter is not necessarily limited only to the region's main language IMO.

It'd be like foreign languages in most major cities. The languages aren't prevalent, but you'll regularly encounter many. And it'd be straightforward to immerse oneself in the options that are present.

If present, the PC should have access/exposure to speakers and books which should be easy enough to roleplay (even if with casual summations). If your PC has gained 20 Int, that's 10th level so hopefully they've encountered a diverse spectrum of languages, even within one's own party.

(That said, PFS can be a stickler here so I'd choose a different designated region!)

[Staffan Johansson]

FowlJ wrote:

Beyond the fact that common options are generally available to anyone unless they have additional requirements, the description of common languages is:

Quote:

Languages that are common are regularly encountered in most places, even among those who aren't native speakers.

'Regularly encountered in most places' is pretty much the exact definition of 'prevalent', and 'languages prevalent in your region' is what the ancestry entry says are available to you.

I think you're talking about different things. There are two easily available ways to learn languages in PF2:

1. High Intelligence, which lets you start with additional languages from a list provided by your ancestry.

2. The Multilingual skill feat, which gives you 2 (or 3) languages from among common, and uncommon languages plus whatever you have available.

There are some others, like the Gnome Polyglot ancestral feat, but these two are the ones that are easy to get.

Increasing your Intelligence to 20 at level 10 would fall under the first one, which is limited to the languages listed in your ancestry. Under an unforgiving reading of the rules, the character in question would be SOL if their Intelligence would give them more languages than they have choices available. A more benevolent GM would likely allow access to languages they have had chances to come across — a good start would be the ancestral languages known by other PCs.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Honestly, if you get a GM (even in PFS) who says "well you have maxed out your languages, I won't let you take another one even though your languages are maxed out"

I would highly advise finding another group, it won't be a fun time with someone like that anyway.

But yeah, RAW is you need to ask your GM for languages past the ones listed in the ancestry when it comes to intelligence increases.

[Wheldrake]

IMHO, as long as the player can posit a reasonable method to access a given language, he should be able to add it to his list. Access to books, access to other PCs who know other languages, access to NPCs living nearby. It's not meant to be a gatekeeper system.

And for wizards, it may prove essential to speak languages like aquaan, auran, terran and ignan, so they can communicate with their summoned elementals. Access? He summons them during downtime to learn their speech.

[Staffan Johansson]

Wheldrake wrote:

And for wizards, it may prove essential to speak languages like aquaan, auran, terran and ignan, so they can communicate with their summoned elementals. Access? He summons them during downtime to learn their speech.

I'd be less likely to allow uncommon languages like those for Int increases unless the ancestry allows for it. I figure that if you want to learn esoteric languages, that's what Multilingual is for.

Edit: Summons in particular only last for a minute. However, teaching a language seems like something that could be done as a task for a Planar Binding ritual. Of course, that would run into the problem of negotiating such a deal in the first place...

[whew]

Though the summons only lasts a minute, during that minute Comprehend Language can be cast, which lasts for an hour. During that hour, work on making a dictionary.

[Captain Zoom]

whew wrote:

Though the summons only lasts a minute, during that minute Comprehend Language can be cast, which lasts for an hour. During that hour, work on making a dictionary.

Or easier still, go to a library or book shop and pick up a dictionary someone else already made.

[David knott 242]

Outside of PFS, the GM would have until just before 10th level to make at least one new language available to this PC -- and that probably would not be too difficult to do even if the GM does not put much thought into it.

Within PFS, it would be a matter of what the scenarios do in terms of granting access to other languages. If few or none of them expand language access, the player may be out of luck.

Then again -- In a campaign where no such additional languages are made available, it is likely that they are not needed. In Starfinder, for example, it is very easy to learn new languages, but it is rare to run into anyone who doesn't speak Common but who does speak some other language that you know.

[Quandary]

Perpdepog wrote:

Also curious there aren't any rare languages.

I mean, that's a pretty major give away IMHO. Languages are just a shaky part of system if you run it RAW, although I think the structure they built up can be easily embellished if you have interest in this area. For one, I think revamping each region's language access is good place to start... To not just reflect native populations but any significant foreign influence or interaction, which isn't the same from region to region. At the same time, I think the standard 'core races' could be removed from general consideration and be made more region specific.

If you want to go deeper, I have a system that splits proficiency into spoken and written, with INT bonus letting you fill reading 1st and CHA bonus letting you fill spoken 1st (after you fill one, any proficiency from anywhere can fill the 2nd part) although an INT/CHA penalty will unavoidably reduce proficiencies. So a Wizard's tendency for increasing INT means either more written languages or fleshing out ones they already have with spoken mode. (I haven't bothered with it so far, but if a language only has spoken/written mode, it may be fair to allow anybody to grab that with any bonus proficiency)

In any case, if you have established in-character interactions to justify learning a language, that qualifies by my book. So much more work than anybody who just picks off generic qualification list with zero story rationale.