Reload 2

[inshal chenet]

I know a lot of people do not like even having reload 1 on the guns, but I would love to have a "heavy" version of the guns listed. Would it be reasonable to make a set of guns with +1 reload and the damage/fatal die increased?

Or more interestingly, have a special ammo that takes longer to load properly but does more damage?

[Dubious Scholar]

Reload 2 is basically unplayable is the issue. The Unsteady trait on Arquebus is probably a better way to go.

For Reload 2 to be worth it a weapon would need to be devastatingly strong on hit. Or have a magazine of some kind (so you spend 2 actions but get 2-3 shots before loading again).

[inshal chenet]

I guess that is my exact question, how much damage is worth reload 2? I would love a reload 2 weapon that is worth it.

Are there 3 action attack cantrips to compare it to?

[Bardarok]

Telekinetic Projectile with Reach Metamagic would be a potential comparable. But weapons do more damage than single target cantrips usually so that would be a lower bound on damage.

[Jedi Maester]

The poor heavy crossbow...

[Bardarok]

Jedi Maester wrote:

The poor heavy crossbow...

Ha! you are of course correct.

[Lightdroplet]

inshal chenet wrote:

I guess that is my exact question, how much damage is worth reload 2? I would love a reload 2 weapon that is worth it.

Are there 3 action attack cantrips to compare it to?

Weapon damage is hardcapped at 1d12. And even that does not seem enough to be worth the trouble.

Right now, you can make a character who has a d12 heavy crossbow without too much trouble seeing how many ways there are to increase the damage die of simple weapons. And even with such a damage die, the heavy crossbow still remains an extremely unpractical and nigh-useless weapon, because having to spend three actions per Strike is far too large of a cost.

[Dubious Scholar]

Heavy Crossbow with Crossbow Ace is 1d12+2 damage. Average 8.5.

Telekinetic Projectile is 1d6+4, average 7.5.

The crossbow tops out at... 4d12+2+3d6? 38.5 average I think. Telekinetic hits 10d6+6. 41 average. The damage actually scales comparably. The action economy does not.

It's also an issue for reload 1 crossbows, but they'll hit 34.5 average for 2 actions. But Running Reload mostly negates that, as do things like Risky Reload for guns.

[Djinn71]

They could always make a 1d12+1 damage dice to emulate a d14 right (closer to a d15)? Or just a trait that deals +X damage per weapon die.

[Arachnofiend]

Reload 2 for weapons that load multiple shots (like revolvers or repeating crossbows) would make sense. Might be a good way to keep revolvers on martial proficiency.

[Ruzza]

Djinn71 wrote:

They could always make a 1d12+1 damage dice to emulate a d14 right (closer to a d15)? Or just a trait that deals +X damage per weapon die.

This is getting messier with striking runes and expected ranges, I think. While the default of "increasing the die size beyond d12 is to add +2 damage" exists, I think that runs into trouble when it comes to baseline expectations of a weapon.

[Dubious Scholar]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Reload 2 for weapons that load multiple shots (like revolvers or repeating crossbows) would make sense. Might be a good way to keep revolvers on martial proficiency.

Don't even need revolvers. Double barrel weapons are a thing too, and a good candidate for that.

[graystone]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

Reload 2 for weapons that load multiple shots (like revolvers or repeating crossbows) would make sense. Might be a good way to keep revolvers on martial proficiency.

Don't even need revolvers. Double barrel weapons are a thing too, and a good candidate for that.

Pepperboxes for the win! ;)

[WatersLethe]

My problem with Reload 2 is that you get to the point where the things you're missing out on (fun of the 3 action economy, the mobility of this edition, cool new skill actions etc) that not only does it not feel fun, but it's very hard to mathematically pin down total value.

You can't just load up a weapon with god tier damage and 9 action reloads (unless its a seige engine or something) because you start breaking down assumptions about how combat behaves. Like, at some point one shotting from surprise attack and guerrilla'ing it out comes into play. 2 action reload is where that apparently starts breaking down.

The idea of multi action reloads for multi-chamber or magazine weapons is significantly more mechanically plausible

[inshal chenet]

WatersLethe wrote:

My problem with Reload 2 is that you get to the point where the things you're missing out on (fun of the 3 action economy, the mobility of this edition, cool new skill actions etc)

What if you had different ammo types. If you had a strong ammo that needs reload 2, then you effectively have a choice in how you use your actions.

Actually the double barrel pistol would be great for this. You could do reload 2, and then be able to shoot both in one action, or reload 2 and then shoot one barrel, and then shoot another later. Or you could do reload 1 and just fill one barrel and then shoot once.

Instead of giving an attack penalty for shooting both barrels (which would mess up the crit fishing of the gunslinger) have it increase the die size by 2.

[voideternal]

Good luck when you face any of the hundreds of Bestiary monsters who apply Slowed 1 / Stunned 1 (or any other action denial).

[Exocist]

Another issue with reload 2 is it becomes more efficient in ABP where it’s just better to drop the weapon and quick draw another, or even draw+shoot another, than to actually reload the weapon.