|
Unrogue 4/paladin 8
Ability scores
Str: 08
Dex: 18 (+2) (+1 at 12 and 16)
Con: 13 (-2)(+1 at 4)
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 15 (+2) (+1 at 8)
Feats:
1- Fey foundling, weapon finesse
3- dodge
4- Piranha strike
5- shield focus
7- greater mercy
9- ????
11- ????
Traits-
trying to decide out of-
Magical knack
Blade of Mercy
Called
Envoy of healing
The premise-
Uses a scimitar or rapier
Wears celestial armor (mithril breastplate can be used instead)
makes use of a shield
any good archtypes for either side? I'm kind of wanting to avoid grey paladin as well.
|
|
the unrogue is largely for flavor due to background. and for getting dex to hit/damage(while using a shield) and skills. The sneak attack is a nice bonus. Also I get evasion.
Note- I know its not "the most optimal choice" but, I want to make it work as well as I can.
the paladin aspect is just that, the main chasis paladin. The only other option I would consider is warpriest or maybe cleric. But that would require changing up ability scores.
The premise-
Uses a scimitar or rapier
Wears celestial armor (mithril breastplate can be used instead)
makes use of a shield
As mentioned, the Virtuoso Bravo Paladin seems like a good match. You're already going for a one-handed finesse build so it you're fine with using a buckler then I'd take that. You get Weapon Finesse at your first level and two sources of damage that scales with your paladin level, so it's better to avoid the UnRogue dip unless you're getting something build-defining from it.
Ability scores
Str: 08
Dex: 18 (+2) (+1 at 12 and 16)
Con: 13 (-2)(+1 at 4)
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 15 (+2) (+1 at 8)
Charisma is way more important that constitution, maybe even dexterity. With LoH kicking in at second level you'll get more HP out of charisma than constitution, and since you also add charisma to saves it's a straight upgrade. Increasing your constitution modifier by 1 gives you +12 HP at level 12. If you increase your charisma instead you gain one more use of LoH, which heals 33 HP.
|
|
I think I'll stick with unrogue. I'm not set in stone on the SnB build (though leaning towards it) But the bravo doesn't give dex to damage that I can tell, and precise strike is useless against several creatures, so I don't want to really rely on that alone. Yes, I could buy an agile weapon as well. So maybe.
All that said, it is certainly something to consider.
And yes, if I went full paladin I would definitely swap the stat bonuses around. That is for if I went rogue into pally.
I think I'll stick with unrogue. I'm not set in stone on the SnB build (though leaning towards it)
You can't use a heavy shield and still have a hand free for LoH, so you're choosing between a light shield or buckler. If you're not using it to bash then the buckler is the superior choice.
And yes, if I went full paladin I would definitely swap the stat bonuses around. That is for if I went rogue into pally.
8 levels of paladin still means +22 HP per use of LoH. So you'd get the same fortitude save, more HP, better cha skills, and your smite becomes stronger. Because you're starting at level 12, no?
====
What exactly do you want to get out of your UnRogue levels? There are a couple of archetypes that might help. Combat tricks? Skill shenanigans?
|
|
AH yes, that silly silly rule about no LoH with a heavy shield. So dumb. Anyway, with that said, I will likely swap over to a two-handed finesse weapon. Elven curved balde or Estoc. This way I get 1 1/2 dex damage. And only lose 1 ac (or, a potential 6)
If I stick with this new idea, it would have to be unrogue 3 minimum. But 4th gets me debilitating strike, and as a paladin I would be best suited for getting into those dangerous positions.
so things I'm getting from rogue-
Trap finding- Likely something I can give up.
Sneak attack- an extra 2-3d6 of damage, pretty decent.
evasion- a nice little ability.
a slew of class skills
and debilitating injury, which is a nice little debuff.
and uncanny dodge. Which is nice.
So, if there are any archetypes that potentially swap out trapfinding they could be used.
What are you getting out of Urogue at 4 or Paladin 8? Debilitating Strike and Aura of Resolve? URogue 5 gets you a little more sneak attack if that is your thing, and Rogue's Edge, ie one skill is quite a bit better (like Intimidate to frighten). I suppose you lose 1 BAB/Fort/Will though.
An 8th level Paladin also increases their LoH by 1d6 and gets 1 extra use per day. They also get another +1 to their Divine Bond if they chose a weapon (bringing it to +2), it's still only 1/day but one more level and that changes.
Unrogue 4/paladin 8
Ability scores
Str: 08
Dex: 18 (+2) (+1 at 12 and 16)
Con: 13 (-2)(+1 at 4)
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 15 (+2) (+1 at 8)
Personally I'm not a huge fan of dumping STR, especially if you're going Sword-and-Bowrd and hoping to stay at light encumberance.
Otherwise, while it's probably not quite as strong as a straight Paladin I think you'll be fine. It will take a little longer to come online, but you'll have boatloads more skills than the average Paladin and get a few other goodies from Rogue without seriously hirting yourself (and Evasion plus Divine Grace is pretty sweet).
Sneak attack- an extra 2-3d6 of damage, pretty decent.
and debilitating injury, which is a nice little debuff.
Assuming you're flanking, that is. You have no feats or class features that helps you secure sneak attack so it will be rare. Unless you're going for a mounted divine bond build.
I will likely swap over to a two-handed finesse weapon. Elven curved balde or Estoc.
That, or an Elven Branched Spear if reach sounds attractive. Either way you should probably buy a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid (1,500 GP) instead of taking EWP. Also, you'd want 13 Str for power attack. But at the level you're starting at you can simply buy some stat boosters.
===
As for UnRogue archetypes, maybe you'll like Swashbuckler or Thug. I'd normally recommend Charlatan for the Rumormonger ability but a paladin might take offense to that.
Swashbuckler allows you to take the Combat Trick talent twice which can be good if you have some feat-intensive build going on. At the moment that isn't the case but it can change.
Thug is honestly pretty disruptive with the ability to frighten enemies that easily. If you use the Blade of Mercy or Mock Gladiator traits with the Enforcer feat then you can very easily make anyone you hit frightened.
===
Some feat alternatives I'd take (in place of Dodge/Shield Focus) would be Enforcer->Shadows of Fear so that you can trigger Debilitating Injury on enemies a lot easier.
Skill Focus->Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for a familiar. In addition to the save/skill/initiative bonus your choice of familiar archetype can be very useful. Protector, Sage/Figment, Emissary.
Deific Obedience, because why not.
Change of Heart. If you deal with an angry mob or neutral creatures it might be in your best interest to befriend them, even if combat has started.
Combat Reflexes. Mostly if you're gonna use the Branched Spear and a wand of Longarm for 15 ft reach.
Boon Companion. If you're taking the mount as your Divine Bond.
Assuming you're flanking, that is. You have no feats or class features that helps you secure sneak attack so it will be rare.Sneak attack- an extra 2-3d6 of damage, pretty decent.
and debilitating injury, which is a nice little debuff.
Well you could take a feint feat or 2 if you wanted - you'll have the Charisma.
Otherwise yes you're basically relying on your party for flanking ...
... Actually, a Paladin could make a great flanker. You're so hard to kill that you can just go stand in the middle of the enemies, then whenever your allies attack you're flanking with someone. Just a thought (though you might want slightly more CON for that idea).
|
|
But the bravo doesn't give dex to damage that I can tell, and precise strike is useless against several creatures, so I don't want to really rely on that alone. Yes, I could buy an agile weapon as well. So maybe.
Bravo's Finesse qualifies for Slashing Grace (along with Weapon Focus). Doesn't work with a shield though. A human Virtuous Bravo can have dex to damage at lvl 1.
Drow Paladin FCB is +1/4 Mercies, so I would definitely max out how many LoH you can do per day. Personally, I'd dump your Wis to 7 and possibly drop Con to 10 to pump up your Cha as high as possible. You may even consider getting Extra LoH Feat at 9 or 11.
Also, I love the 4 lvl Rogue dip for Disorienting Injury. Enemies take a -2 to hit, and an additional -2 to hit you. If you got Cornugon Smash and a +1 Cruel Enchant on your weapon, you would Shaken/Sicken for an additional -4 (total -8 to hit you, -6 to hit everyone else), so consider bringing Str back up to 13 to qualify for Power Attack. Pick up Shatter Defenses so you can SnA reliably without having to Flank.
Drow Paladin FCB is +1/4 Mercies
Isn't it sacred bonus against shadow spells?
Drow (Blood of Shadows pg. 15): Add a +1/2 sacred bonus to saving throws against spells of the shadow subschool or that have the darkness or shadowUM descriptor.
If FCB are an issue, a Half-Drow would allow 2 favored classes for multiclassing (Multitalented racial trait) and add several new options to the Drow option for Paladin FCB:
Half-Elf (Advanced Race Guide pg. 43): Add +1 foot to the size of all the paladin's aura class features. This option has no effect unless the paladin has selected it 5 times (or another increment of 5); an aura of 14 feet is effectively the same as a 10-foot aura, for example.
Elf (Advanced Race Guide pg. 23): Add +1/2 hit point to the paladin's lay on hands ability (whether using it to heal or harm).
Human (Advanced Race Guide pg. 73, Advanced Player's Guide pg. 23): Add +1 to the paladin’s energy resistance to one kind of energy (maximum +10).
A Half-Drow could also trade Multitalented away for the Arcane Training alternate racial trait, so for example you could use all spell completion & spell trigger items (scrolls, wands, staffs, ...) a sorcerer with the same CHA score could use (without any need for UMD). This adds access to most arcane spells and a lot of versatility to the Paladin.
Ok nvm what I said earlier, here's what I would do:
Unrogue 4/Scaled Fist Monk 1/paladin 7
Ability scores
Str: 13
Dex: 21 (16 +2) (+1 at 12 and 16)
Con: 12 (14 -2)
Int: 11
Wis: 7
Cha: 18 (16 +2)
Don't worry about dumping your Wis, your Cha is going to your Saves and as a Paladin, you're immune to a lot and can remove most of the rest via Mercies.
You can use a Scimitar/Shield if you want. Personally, I'd recommend going with a two-hander with high critical range. As a paladin, you get Divine Bond, so having on-demand Keen is high temptation for 2hand builds. Plus, they can't hit you when they're dead. But you do you. There's no reason you can't lug the scimitar/shield around, but you can simply carry a Wand of Shield and do the same thing. Wand of Shield and Wand of Mage Armor with 50 charges are 750g a piece, which is dirt cheap for a lvl 12.
Trait:
Heirloom Weapon (Elven Curve Blade)
--- why Elven Curve Blade? Because it's a 2handed 18-20/x2 and usable with Weapon Finesse and Rogue Finesse.
Feats:
L1: Paladin1 - Fey Foundling
L2: Scaled Fist Monk1 - Bonus Feat: Crane Style, +Cha to AC, Imp Unarmed Strike 1d6 dmg (now if you get disarmed, you're not completely vulnerable)
L3: UnRogue1 - Weapon Finesse (free), Power Attack
Make sure to have 3 points in Acrobatics here at level 3 so you can have -2 Attack and +4 Dodge, and then always "Fight Defensively" here on out using Crane Style. Also, if you're ever in serious trouble, you can switch to Total Defense, and you'll have a +7 Dodge.
At this level, you should have Dex 18, Cha 18, and fight Defensively already makes your AC 22 without any help from Wand of Mage Armor, Wand of Shield, gear, or spells. With Mage Armor and Shield, you would have an AC of 30.
L4: UnRogue2 - Weapon Focus <Elven Curve Blade>
L5: UnRogue3 - Rogue Finesse <Elven Curve Blade> Dex to Dmg, Dazzling Display
L6: UnRogue4 - Combat Trick: Cornugon Smash
Here's where it all comes together. Get a +1 Cruel Enchant for your weapon by this level, and now you can inflict -8 to attack with shaken/sicken/disorienting injury combo. And as an added bonus, anytime you kill something, your Cruel enchant gives you 5 temp HP.
L7: Paladin2 - Shatter Defenses
L8: Paladin3 - Mercy: Fatigued
L9: Paladin4 - Cleave, 4/4 Mercy: Sickened (or Deceived)
L10: Paladin5 -
At this level, you get Divine Bond, so start using Keen on your weapon for a 15-20/x2
L11: Paladin6 - Great Cleave, Mercy: Targeted
L12: Paladin7 -
The idea here is to Cleave 2-4 targets with Power Attack, causing you to Shaken/Sicken/ShatterDefenses/DisorientingInjury, and give them a -8 to hit you and now they're Flat-footed to all your attacks, making them much easier for you to hit, and now you're causing +2d6 SnA to all of them. So even if you have no flank buddy, or your flank buddy is otherwise occupied, you can still force your SnA's.
If you're not digging the whole cleave thing, then maybe get Furious Focus and Extra LoH?
At level 12, you should have a +4 Belt of Dex and a +4 Headband of Charisma right now, as well as a Cloak of Resistance +2 or +3, a Ring of Protection +2 or +3, and an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 or +3. I would make sure you have a Wand of Mage Armor and Wand of Shield with plenty of charges. Mage Armor is Hour/level, so this is perfect for Dungeon Crawling. Put up Shield Min/level if you think you'll need an additional +4 AC for a particular fight.
With +4 Belt, Headband, and +2 Ring/Amulet, and Fighting Defensively, you should be rocking a 10 + 7 Dex + 6 Cha + 4 FightDef + 2 Deflection + 2 Natural Armor = 31 AC. Mage Armor gives another +4 for Dungeon Crawls, and Shield can give you another +4 for Boss Fights. And Smite Evil gives you an additional +6 Att/AC for Evil Boss Fights. So that's a respectable 45 AC vs Smite Evil targets. And with a -8 to hit you, your enemies would need a +34 or higher to hit you with a 19 roll on the d20.
L13: Paladin8 - Critical Focus, 4/4 Mercy: Diseased
L14: Paladin9 - Mercy: Cursed
L15: Paladin10 - Staggering Critical
L16: Paladin11 - Aura of Justice (Give Smite Evil to your whole party)
Aura of Justice is the best buff in the game. Pick any Archetype you want, but don't pick an Archetype that causes you to lose this ability.
Drow Paladin FCB is +1/4 MerciesIsn't it sacred bonus against shadow spells?
Drow (Blood of Shadows pg. 15): Add a +1/2 sacred bonus to saving throws against spells of the shadow subschool or that have the darkness or shadowUM descriptor.If FCB are an issue, a Half-Drow would allow 2 favored classes for multiclassing (Multitalented racial trait) and add several new options to the Drow option for Paladin FCB:
A Half-Drow could also trade Multitalented away for the Arcane Training alternate racial trait, so for example you could use all spell completion & spell trigger items (scrolls, wands, staffs, ...) a sorcerer with the same CHA score could use (without any need for UMD). This adds access to most arcane spells and a lot of versatility to the Paladin.Half-Elf (Advanced Race Guide pg. 43): Add +1 foot to the size of all the paladin's aura class features. This option has no effect unless the paladin has selected it 5 times (or another increment of 5); an aura of 14 feet is effectively the same as a 10-foot aura, for example.
Elf (Advanced Race Guide pg. 23): Add +1/2 hit point to the paladin's lay on hands ability (whether using it to heal or harm).
Human (Advanced Race Guide pg. 73, Advanced Player's Guide pg. 23): Add +1 to the paladin’s energy resistance to one kind of energy (maximum +10).
I'm looking here. It says Drow get 1/4 to the number of Mercies they can use.
|
|
I'm looking here. It says Drow get 1/4 to the number of Mercies they can use.
That's listed as third party FWIW (Jon Brazer Enterprises).